Talking about women should be edifying.

Readership: All; Men;
Theme: Validation; The Christian Red Pill;
Note 1: This essay was inspired by some comments under Farm Boy’s post at Spawny’s Space: Avoidance (2025/6/6).
Note 2: Gratuitous images added for those who doubt the main assertions of this post.
Length: 1,800 words
Reading Time: 10 minutes

Intro

One of the main reasons we keep writing posts and comments on blogs over the years is because it’s fun talking to other men. Another is that it keeps our thinking and writing sharp. Yet another is keeping ourselves from repeating the mistakes we’ve made. Yet another is that younger men might learn something from our experiences.

It’s an absolute societal tragedy that men and women aren’t getting and staying together. Men have to learn to be happy alone first. Many of us older men didn’t understand this when we were younger. We could not, or did not. We might have chosen better or worse. Or sooner. We don’t know.

One of the things men need is for someone to warn them against the kind of women who could destroy them. Many of us wish we’d had someone who had done that for us when we were younger men. We got a lot of help from the Manosphere. Many of us who stick around the Manosphere after completing our Red Pill Awakening have a heart for speaking truth to other men. We would just like to pay some of it back, and forward.

There’s truth in what our opponents say; but because of the bubbles they live in, they’re cloistered and sheltered from the “bad stuff” we saw and experienced and which was perpetrated upon us.

Western culture wants men to repent of being too masculine, too patriarchal, and too “T0x!c”, ad nauseum.  Meanwhile, some of us who needed a bit more wisdom are busy repenting of being too accepting, too gentle, too passive, and too weak.

We can’t and won’t ignore wisdom (and facts, and truth) merely because some people don’t like it.

We hope only that someone gets something from what we write, so that a little (wholly unnecessary) suffering somewhere might be alleviated.

Criticisms

Yet, in spite of our magnanimous and prolific contributions to RP lore over the years, we’re continually criticized.

We’re criticized for “gossiping” about women, when all we’re doing is repeating what someone else said and using it as an example to help others understand a point.

We’re criticized for “suffering”, and we’re told that I Peter 3:13-22 was written to alleviate it.

OK. But this does nothing to help men now, or our children going forward.

We’re criticized for “talking about women”.

Feminists say men talking about women is m!s0gyny.  Derek L. Ramsey (DLR) says men talking about women is effeminate.  Their arguments are different, but their aim and the end result are the same — to get men to shut up.

God commands us to do what we can, here, now.

That’s why we talk about women.

About Men Talking About Women

DLR has claimed that Manosphere blogs are too focused on women and criticizes them for that focus, because in his view, that’s what women do — sit around and talk, and don’t do anything. In his view, men in the Manosphere are effeminate because they focus on women’s faults. Bruce Charlton agrees.

DLR is not completely wrong. He believes that both men and women are equally fallen and flawed because they aren’t following God or Christ; and that it makes no sense to talk about one sex’s flaws to the exclusion of the other’s. His view is that both men and women are not sufficiently obedient to Christ, devout, or sexually chaste; and that both men and women are much too secularly focused and worldly.

If we’re only talking about the secular Manosphere, I’ll admit that this was one of the flaws of the Manosphere 1.0. There was an undercurrent of overweening reverence for women as P_ssy bearers and the wielders of V Power — same as Feminist culture, but the Manosphere 1.0 was much more aware of women’s behaviors, deceptions, hamsterbated lies, and various intersexual snafus. The secular Manosphere 2.0 is not so much that way (if at all), but instead focuses on women as the foolish and totally irresponsible gatekeepers of sex, and how their behaviors ruin men and all of society.

The Christian Manosphere 2.0 also discusses women predominantly, but also men’s issues too. However, the element of reverence for women is redesignated as how to interpret their irrational behaviors, and handle them effectively — “the care and feeding of the most responsible teenager in the house”, as Red Pill Apostle might say.

The point is that, “We are to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves” (Matthew 10:16).  It thus has a slightly different approach that DLR is not picking up on.  Of course, this is because DLR presumes that all women have full moral agency, whereas other authors in the Christian Manosphere concede that this is seldom the case.

That’s why we talk about women.

Why Talk About Women?

One of the reasons we spend time talking about women’s flaws and women’s responsibility for the problems in intersexual relationships is simply that almost no one else even takes the time to notice that women have any flaws or that women have any responsibility for the problems in intersexual relationships.

Because this society has spent well over 50 years talking about what men have done wrong, what men should be doing, or doing better … and what men’s responsibility for the problems in intersexual relationships are.

Because for the past 30+ years, social conversations have been all about men’s faults, men’s problems, men’s weaknesses, t0x!c masculinity, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum…

Meanwhile, social conversations have been all about women’s interests, women’s prerogatives, women’s ‘rights’, and women’s presumed ‘virtues’, such as being Strong and Independent™, getting an education and career (either in the hope that they’ll make themselves eligible to marry a commensurately educated man and then ‘retire’ comfortably at first childbirth, or else exclude themselves from the MMP entirely, due to being excessively ‘overcredentialed’ for marriage), etc. etc.

Moreover, this society has spent well over 50 years talking about how women are “pearls of great price”, perfectly made, and how excellent and wonderful women are, and how they are the social and spiritual superiors of men, with no mention of anything ugly about the female carnal nature.

Almost no one is saying anything about what women are doing wrong.

Almost no one else is pointing out women’s share of the responsibility for the problems in intersexual relationships.

We’re already talking too much about men, to the point that it is demotivating and discouraging. 

Someone needs to explicate on what women have done wrong and what women’s role in the problems in intersexual relationships is.

That’s why we talk about women.

Talking about Women is M!s0gyny

But…

We can’t talk about anything women are actually responsible for, because that would be ‘m!s0gyny’.

Any assignment of responsibility to a woman for a relationship problem of any kind is ‘m!s0gyny’.

Any recitation of a documented fact about a woman engaging in misconduct is ‘m!s0gyny’.

Reciting uncontradicted facts about how people got attracted to each other is ‘m!s0gyny’.

Any discussion of women’s relationship misconduct is now classified as ‘m!s0gyny’.

Calling women out on their faults, lies, and ruses is ‘m1s0gyny’.

Any disagreement with a woman is ‘m!s0gyny’.

Holding women accountable is ‘m1s0gyny’.

Thedeti’s recitation of his own story is ‘m!s0gyny’ because it assigns responsibility to Mrs. deti for things she was, you know, actually responsible for.

Feeriker discussing his divorce from the ex Mrs. Feeriker is ‘m!s0gyny’ because it assigns responsibility to ex Mrs. Feeriker for things she was, you know, actually responsible for.

Jack’s coverage of Biblical Headship Authority is ‘m!s0gyny’ because it reminds p00n pandering egalitarians (feminist women / Purple Pilled men / White Knights / et al.), that women who sign up for marriage have certain responsibilities to their freely chosen husbands and to God for things they are, you know, actually responsible for.

We can’t remind any woman anywhere about anything she did in the past that caused a problem or injured a relationship, because that would be ‘m!s0gyny’.

We can’t ever talk about how women influence men and children, relationships, marriages, families, and ultimately society, because just talking about these things in a true, factually correct, emotionally sterile, educational way, to help someone else avoid that mistake, is ‘m!s0gyny’.

But NOT doing so is hanging men out to dry, essentially m!s@ndry.

That’s why we talk about women.

Epilogue

These things and much more were written on Σ Frame and Spawny’s Space from late 2023 to mid 2025.  At first, there was nothing but crickets and criticism.  With time, this stance resonated and reverberated around the tiny sphere of blogs that regularly interact with Σ Frame, but failed to penetrate the wider Red Pill 2.0 sphere on YT.

However…

Recently, on certain Femosphere YT channels, some women are taking other women to task for how they are to be responsible in marriage, to husband, to family, and to themselves.  Yes, women, because if women don’t say this, then no one will listen.

Recently, on some RP 2.0 YT channels, people are beginning to wake up to the fact that the game is rigged against men and detect the truth in what MRAs have been saying for over two decades.

So only now are we being heard. That’s a time frame of about 2 years, which is an excessively long delay for the Manosphere 2.0.  Typically, what is written about here on Σ Frame is discussed across the Manosphere 2.0 within 2 months. Two years is playing the fool. I’m ashamed of them … almost.

It’s about time people listened to MEN!

And … Christian MEN are beginning to repeat (in their own words) what Joshua said to the rebellious Israelites 3,431 years ago.

“And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served who were Blue Pilled Complementarians, or the ressentimental gods of the Fem!n@z! Gynocentrists and the Sodomites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Jack’s Red Pill paraphrase of Joshua 24:15 (NKJV)

I think it’s long past time to cut to the chase, look to God’s models for masculinity, femininity, and intersexual relationships as given in the scriptures, and assume responsibility where it is due.

If you’re lacking, then get with the program, male or female notwithstanding. You’re only hurting yourself and those whom you would otherwise love.

If you’ve been faithful, then may the Lord reward you accordingly, preserve you, and protect you from the onslaughts of lies in this world.

And … that’s why we talk about women.

Related

• Σ Frame: Avoiding the Broken Window Effect (2021/7/21)
• Σ Frame (Thedeti): Deti on Female Accountability (2022/11/25)
• Σ Frame: A Gynocentric Society Inhibits Female Agency (2022/12/9)
• Σ Frame: Moral Agency is Dependent on Spiritual Maturity (2022/12/19)
• Σ Frame: What we’ve learned about Female Agency (2022/12/20)
• Σ Frame: Summary of the W!tchy War on Masculinity (2023/12/27)
• Σ Frame: Misunderstood Models (2024/4/3)
• Σ Frame: A Failure of Knowledge Transference in Practical Applications (2024/5/8)
• Σ Frame: A Long Hidden Truth is Now Uncovered. (2025/3/14)