Add symbols from Orca#11110
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Here are the Orca translations, in case translators wish to reuse them: |
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NVDA seems to be able to read these at least when reading by character... |
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If they are not in NVDA yet, tese symbols need also to be added to the symbols and interpunctuation dialog. Actually there are a lot of symbols. |
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Hi, punctuation/symbol pronunciation dialog will pick up symbols from language-specific symbols.dic, which ultimately depends on willingness from translators to translate new symbols once they show up on translations workflow. Thanks.
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Just a question: is there some guideline or some common usage to decide which symbol is added in symbol.dic and which should not? Is there a big performance penalty to add many symbols? |
May I ask why the engb (english) one is so small/short? There are only a few entries in it. The russian one is also not complete. I want those two (at least the english one) for reference while discussing them with my colleagues for the bulgarian translation. Thanks in advance! |
It's just because my script ignores the strings identical with the "en" version |
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Hi, in other words, what translators would have seen in symbols changes folder for a given revision minus diff signs. Thanks.
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@josephsl wrote:
But in the punctuation and symbol pronounciation dialog, there are more than 3.000 symbols. Where are they fetched from? In the symbols.dic are only about 200 lines. If they are fetched from Windows itself, I think most of them should be already translated (i.e. emojis). What is exactly the purpose of the symbols.dic then? |
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Hi, some of them come from symbols.dic, others are emoji characters coming from CLDR database. Thanks.
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| ¼ one fourth none | ||
| ½ one half none | ||
| ¾ three fourths none |
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I believe "one quarter" and "three quarters" is much more popular than the also acceptable "fourth" version. I propose this be changed.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/103188/three-quarters-vs-three-fourths
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I am copy/pasting my comment from #11105 since it seems that the discussion is taking place here.
@feerrenrut could you comment on this please regarding NVAccess point of view? Comments from other people are also welcome. |
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I'm not aware of performance issues with this. I would prefer to address performance problems with the implementation rather than reduce our supported symbols. Even if most synths supply these symbols they may not do so adequately across all languages, or we/a user might not like how they announce the symbol. This gives users the option to use the NVDA supplied symbol name or the rely on the synth. It also lets us adjust symbol names as appropriate, a good example is the Mac command symbol / looped square ⌘ which I believe was added not so long ago. I hope this answers your question! |
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Yes, thanks for your answer. |
According my tests, the number of symbols is not significant. I tried with a string of 1048543 symbols in several locales. However, I don't know if my script is really reliable. There are most likely better ways to measure this. My scriptHere's one of my outputs:
In this case, we can remove many symbols :) |
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Such symbols are for example often used when writing equations in LateX. Nearly every blind person who uses a laptop or a computer in the school or university works with LateX in Mathematics, Phisics or Chemistry.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
… Am 09.05.2020 um 08:23 schrieb André-Abush Clause ***@***.***>:
Is there a big performance penalty to add many symbols?
According my tests, the number of symbols is not significant. I tried with a string of 65335 symbols in several locales. However, I don't know if my script is really reliable. There are most likely better ways to measure this.
My script
Here's one of my outputs:
ar -> 3376 symbols, total time: 221.0103557, average time: 11.050517785
bg -> 3445 symbols, total time: 214.06203370000003, average time: 10.703101685000002
cs -> 3396 symbols, total time: 218.30669819999991, average time: 10.915334909999995
da -> 3445 symbols, total time: 217.11858540000003, average time: 10.85592927
fr -> 3845 symbols, total time: 238.7677773999999, average time: 11.938388869999994
hr -> 3446 symbols, total time: 217.14729369999986, average time: 10.857364684999993
it -> 3446 symbols, total time: 215.80777239999998, average time: 10.790388619999998
ja -> 3968 symbols, total time: 230.4640202999999, average time: 11.523201014999994
ko -> 31709 symbols, total time: 213.701642, average time: 10.685082099999999
nl -> 3441 symbols, total time: 217.8810311999996, average time: 10.89405155999998
pl -> 3448 symbols, total time: 213.60206610000023, average time: 10.680103305000012
ru -> 3493 symbols, total time: 212.6139294999998, average time: 10.63069647499999
tr -> 3672 symbols, total time: 214.91899090000015, average time: 10.745949545000007
zh -> 152 symbols, total time: 214.42888690000018, average time: 10.721444345000009
zh_TW -> 4246 symbols, total time: 211.3798428, average time: 10.56899214
all subscript and superscript: give an example of real life where they are used
In this case, we can remove many symbols :)
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@Adriani90 wrote:
The subscripts symbols are not used in LaTeX as such. When writing in LaTeX the particular notation for them is used, and LaTeX generated pdf's containing math are not accessible enough to be readable. |
With some Polish SAPI 5 synthesizers for these fractions only |
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While this applies to pdf probably, there are also other formats you can export latex code to, so I think it is good to have the symbols reported.
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If I can summarise, most of us agree, that it could be benefitial to
users, if Orca's and such other symbols were included in NVDA?
Personally I vote for inclusion Orcas and other symbols, which has
been used often, but were not included in lcdr.
BTW what's the relationship between NVDA's symbols and included LCDR?
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@sthibaul: If you have additional time,, feel free to use my uploaded files regarding issue #6341 as well. |
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I'd like to accept this PR, though I am just waiting on the following line comment to be addressed:
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Ok, fixed so. |
LeonarddeR
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I should have looked at this pr before merge, as I consider some of these symbol pronunciations too verbose and inconsistent to others. Examples below
| ¥ Yen all norep | ||
| ₹ Rupee some norep | ||
| ƒ florin all norep | ||
| ¤ currency sign all norep |
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I'd say just currency is enough
| ¦ broken bar most | ||
| ~ tilda most | ||
| ¡ inverted exclamation point some | ||
| ¿ inverted question mark some |
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Inconsistent with question mark, which we pronounce as question
| ‡ double dagger some | ||
| ‣ triangular bullet none | ||
| ✗ x-shaped bullet none | ||
|  object replacement character none |
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@LeonarddeR: Wouldn't it better to add a secondary name field for Unicode characters, which are only spoken in letter navigation? I already planned to create such an issue. This would save us tons of hours of discussions, as then a Unicode character is spoken with its short name in normal navigation and only with its detail name in letter navigation. |
Link to issue number:
fixes #11105
Summary of the issue:
Some symbols have been seen useful in Orca and are missing in NVDA
Description of how this pull request fixes the issue:
This adds them to source/locale/en/symbols.dic
Testing performed:
The resulting file processes fine.
Known issues with pull request:
This adds a series of symbols to translate. Orca translations can be used as a source if translators wish. I will attach a tarball containing them.
Change log entry:
New features
Adds more symbols. (#11105)