• PS. I should say this review is purely to do with CSS – the plugin itself is quite good IMO. If you don’t need to customise the styling you could safely use this

    As has been said here before ( over a year ago btw ) – the plugin is pretty good but the styles have !important all over the place and in general the plugin seems to want to take 100% control of all the styles – making it basically useless if you want to use it as part of a proper design. I confess to useing !important a fair bit when I shouldn’t – it’s hard to avoid 100% – so I’m not like the CSS police or anything but this completely takes the proverbial biscuit. It took me 2 hours of writing THE most grotesque styles I’ve ever written πŸ™‚ to make it bend to my will. Really bad for even a free plugin but the paid for one is what I was using.
    Authors please don’t ask me waste my time following up on this – just please learn how to write CSS properly. You obviously know how to write js a lot better than I do but the CSS is a real problem to be honest

    [links removed]

    • This topic was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.
    • This topic was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by bdbrown. Reason: Links not permitted in reviews
    • This topic was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.
Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Hi Byron,

    We understand your point but we think it isn’t fair to accuse us for wtiting bad CSS.

    Let me explain πŸ™‚

    Each single day we are fixing CSS issues for our users. And in 99,9% of the cases the problem is a bad coded theme that is overwriting our calendar with their CSS styles.

    If we didn’t use !important’s the calendar would show up broken on many, many websites. Just by the fact that some theme developers don’t care about overwriting things (applying styles to general elements with !importants’s). You have no idea how many times we are fixing the themes of our clients. Always for free, quickly and helpful.

    We’re working very hard to improve this plugin, day by day. New feautures are released and calendar theme’s will come soon.

    This 2-star review is hurting us πŸ™

    Thread Starter byronyasgur

    (@byronyasgur)

    Guys what you’re describing IS bad CSS = adjusting your plugin to cover bad coders is not something you should be doing. I’m by no means an expert in this but I can assure you if you do a bit of study you’ll find using !important as much as you have is VERY bad practice, ESPECIALLY in a piece of software that other people are using. Writing more bad code to cover other peoples bad code is like saying two wrongs will make a right – but it doesn’t. In my case I have to ( and I mean I literally have no choice in the matter ) write REALLY bad code just to overwhelm your bad code which you wrote to overwhelm the actual bad code. You should be writing to best practices and if the plugin displays wrong then tell your clients to get a proper theme. I basically NEVER give bad reviews but that code cost me a lot of time yesterday in my business and you already had someone comment on this a year and a half ago. Trust me yes the css coding on most plugins is pretty bad but it’s usually workable. Sorry but not a chance I can let this pass. And by the way calendar themes are completely useless wrt fixing this issue. The cascading style sheets need to be actually cascade-able but in your case you’ve taken them out of the flow – no amount of themes will ever fix that. I need to be able to apply my own custom theme via css – the themes might be good for amateurs but I’ve never seen one that actually got me what I wanted really. Sorry that this hurts you but the primary reason I decided to do a review rather than write a support comment or email you is that I see you were informed about this issue a year ago and didn’t seem to understand the problem then you were actually basically asking the guy to help you see the problem when he just told you what it was and suggesting some kind of “Custom CSS” thing ( to fix the actual CSS you broke !! ) https://wordpress.org/support/topic/functionally-is-great-customization-is-frustrating/

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.

    We did that in the past, Byron. And if we still did, we wouldn’t exist anymore.

    There are thousands and thousands of bad coded themes and we just cannot tell 99,9% of our customers that it’s not our problem and leave them with a broken plugin. I would make our lives very easy, what you describe would be an utopia.

    I think we might be able to offer you a solution: what if we create a ‘blank theme’ that has no important’s? So users like you are able to style the calendar without problems.

    Maybe we both will be happy with that?

    πŸ™‚

    Thread Starter byronyasgur

    (@byronyasgur)

    I don’t know what you mean – there are 138 instances of !important in 135 lines of CSS in the wpbs-calendar.css – that’s a world record by anyone’s standards if you ask me – contrast that with 8 instances in a three thousand line file from another plugin I just grabbed … none of the other plugins that I’ve used ( and I’ve used hundreds over the years ) use CSS anything like yours – you don’t need all those !important – just get proper specificity going – like maybe #wpbs-form-form instead of .wpbs-form-form if you really have to go that route – the vast majority are able to do it right to some extent – if it was utopia to expect everyone to keep to their own lane of the road then you should not be driving on it . It doesn’t need to be perfect – Anyway you can believe what you want. As regards a blank theme it would be of no use if it was completely blank because surely that would break the basic calendar itself ( which would be an instance where you could be justified using some !important – but you use them on the form as well of course ) – but if you had a theme that had no !importants in it at least for the form then that would be good. Better still have a “nuclear bomb” theme like you have now and then a regular theme – and if someone is using some crazy theme that itself uses 100s of !importants I suppose you could tell them to use the nuclear version. Tbh you don’t seem to really get this whole issue – I very much doubt this will be the last issue you have with someone like me coming along and telling you off about !important – it would be in your best interest to get rid of it all since it’s a commercial venture for you. That’s why I’m suggesting the alternative route. Changed from two stars to three btw and softened the title

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.

    Hi Byron,

    The goal is to create two themes / CSS files. The one that we have now (with all the important’s) and a ‘new’ one that doesn’t have these important’s. Of course it will still have the normal CSS of the calendar itself. That means that if your theme is properly coded, it won’t overwrite a single element.

    For customization purposes: do you think we could better create a ‘custom CSS’ box in the Settings menu of the plugin? Or let users apply custom CSS by letting them edit their own theme and apply it in the styles there.

    That lane driving example is a good one, by the way.

    Thanks for your feedback. We’re sure this is improving the plugin a lot for many users. Thanks for the other star. Hopefully it will be higher soon, after it’s all set and done!

    Waiting for your reply πŸ™‚

    Thread Starter byronyasgur

    (@byronyasgur)

    Custom CSS boxes are always handy to have if it’s not a big deal to put them in but I think most people will have either a child theme or a box in their theme – but obviously a lot of people wont so I suppose it’s handy to have. I think though your color customisation will cover what 90% of amateurs want to do and as long as you leave the css fairly open any pro can manage with whatever is presented – I’m using the custom css box on the theme a lot lately if the theme gives it rather than bothering doing a child theme but the one I use mainly ( AVADA ) has a fairly half decent editor in it – otherwise I’d personally prefer to use sublime so I could see what I was doing and then put it in just a css file

    To be honest 90% of the reason I even bothered with customisation was the booking form style was in my opinion a bit dated. If you had a couple of modern themes for that ( specifically a full width option was what I needed to do myself ) then that might be good; as long as they were either overwritable or pretty generic – preferably the former- particularly with regard to the typography, colors and button styling which are the main things someone would need to change to get it to match the host website.

    I think the plugin deserves 5 stars aside from the way the css is – I’d be more than happy to change it to 5 if my issue with the CSS was covered somewhat.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by byronyasgur.

    Hi Byron,

    Yeah, I think the right place to add custom CSS would be in the theme itself (custom box / child theme). Otherwise you would have all custom CSS boxes for each plugin.

    I’m still on a small holiday now, but we’ll be working on this after the weekend. Have a nice one! And we’ll speak soon.

    Hi Byron,

    We’re working on this. What do you think: should we add this setting in the shortcode?

    [Styling]
    – Default
    – Plain

    Where plain is the styling without all the !important’s?

    Thread Starter byronyasgur

    (@byronyasgur)

    Sounds like it would work – but I think it’s all to do with the form really – I don’t think many people would need to be able to style that calendar any more than you have already given the ability to do in the options ( and I’m talking about professionals with genuine needs not amateurs with fanciful opinions) . If there’s some ability to style the form reasonably easily ( specifically the width of the form and the inputs, the height, padding, line-height, typography etc ) then it doesn’t really matter how you actually allow it ( provided it’s apparent somewhere in the plugin interface ) . By the way hard coding Arial font into the typography is a very bad idea IMO – it’s widely regarded by designers as one of the worst fonts to use – up there with comic sans. Obviously a plugin needs to carry some of it’s own styles but I don’t understand how it was ever necessary to lock down the font-face it just seemed really OTT – just my 2c in case it helps you.

    Thanks, you’re right. We’re already adapting the ‘font that is used in the theme’ instead of Arial.

    Ok, we’ll have this solved.

    P.S. are you using the Free of Premium version?

    Thread Starter byronyasgur

    (@byronyasgur)

    the premium – tbh the site is done now in my case so I won’t be changing it we’re deploying it in the next day or two. I’ll come back to this plugin if I need a similar plugin on another site in the future.

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)

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