Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #758, “Peeves Cast for the Harry Potter TV Show, Trailer Rumors, Charlie Weasley?”
Cold Open
Andrew: They don’t pick you unless you’re a child.
Micah: So bring your nephews, and we’ll be fine.
[Everyone laughs]
Ivana: Listen, we’ll bring my chaos nugget.
Andrew: [laughs] “What’s Harry Potter?” “Don’t worry about it; just get in there and pretend like you want a wand.”
Ivana: [laughs] “Get in line! Oh no, he tripped. I’ll take his place.”
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies, and this week we’re focused on the TV show, so follow us in your favorite podcast app, and that way you’ll never miss an episode. Like I said, this week we’re updating you on the latest news surrounding the Harry Potter TV series, which launches on HBO Max this Christmas. We have casting news to share, we have a new clip to look at, we’ve got Internet rumors, and we’ll discuss which characters from the books should be introduced earlier than they originally appeared in the books or even in the movies. So lots to discuss today, and helping us with today’s episode is MuggleCast supporter, listener, returning guest, Ivana! Welcome back, Ivana!
Ivana: Hello, thank you so much for having me back. I’m so excited.
Andrew: Yeah, our pleasure.
Micah: Ivana was last on Episode 720, so that was in September of last year, so not that long ago.
Andrew: Okay. And we got your fandom ID last time, so I’m curious this time, to introduce you to our listeners again, what are you most looking forward to in the Harry Potter TV show?
Ivana: Okay, so my biggest thing is I want depth, the layers, all of it. I want everything that we didn’t get, but then more, I guess? Because… so there was an episode back in February where there was a quote from the Malfoy actor that was read, and he was commenting on how we’re going to be seeing further into the story scape, which is exactly what I want. For me, it’s all I’ve wanted, and I think there’s a certain importance in conveying that a story doesn’t just exist in a vacuum, that this story doesn’t just exist in a vacuum, there’s a backstory to every character and every choice they make, and that’s in between the lines, or the scenes, I guess, in this case. And I want people that do have the context for this story to see that depth, and then for the people who don’t have the context, I want them to be wondering about those details. And then also the music. I want really good music.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Ivana: Give me the soundscape.
Andrew: So how do you feel about Hans Zimmer? Or is that news to you?
Ivana: Oh, we’re good. We’re fine.
[Andrew and Ivana laugh]
Ivana: I don’t think I knew that!
Andrew: Breaking news!
Ivana: This is excellent!
Andrew: You looked like you just learned that news with that reaction.
Ivana: I did. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, so Hans Zimmer and his team are going to be scoring the TV show, which is awesome news. And yeah, those are great points. When you first started speaking, I didn’t think you said “depth”; I thought you said “death,” and I was like, “Whoa, okay.”
[Ivana and Laura laugh]
Ivana: That is morbid.
Andrew: I know this is HBO, but I don’t know if I want to lead with that.
Ivana: Dark humor is often my go-to. Let’s wait till book… or I guess, uh, Season 6? [laughs]
Andrew: Sure. Yeah, we could wait a while for the death. Children are watching it, after all.
[Ivana laughs]
Andrew: Listeners like Ivana make this show possible, so listeners, if you love MuggleCast as much as we love a new TV show clip or news to discuss, head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast; that’s where you can support us. And to thank you, you’ll receive bonus episodes of the show, ad-free episodes, a monthly Zoom hangout with us and your fellow Potter friends in which we talk about the latest news surrounding not just the show, but the fandom. We’ll also give you an on-air shout-out, and lots more. We can’t do this without you, so thank you in advance. And coming up in our next bonus MuggleCast – due out in just a couple days – since we are soon kicking off a Chapter by Chapter reread of Deathly Hallows, I want to look back at our midnight release experiences, and in fact, July, of course, is the anniversary of Deathly Hallows coming out 19 years ago, so this is a good theme too. 19 years later, we’re going to discuss the release of Deathly Hallows the book.
News
Andrew: All right, let’s jump into the news concerning the TV show. First of all, we’re less than six months away from the show premiering.
Micah: We’re all going to be spending Christmas together.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: But we do have some exciting news to kick off this news block: Peeves has been cast! Peter Serafin… God, how do you guys think I pronounce this? I don’t even…
Ivana: That was 10 out of 10.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Serafinowicz?
Andrew: That was 10 out of 10, how I bailed out of it halfway through his last name? [laughs]
Laura: I think Micah is right. Serafinowicz.
Andrew: Serafinowicz. Okay, Peter Serafinowicz – we’re keeping that all in – has been cast as Peeves in the TV show. Now, I looked him up on IMDb. Personally, I don’t really recognize him. He’s had some minor-ish roles, I would say, in films like the animated How to Train Your Dragon and Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy. One thing I wanted to bring up is the news of his casting came pretty late. Any thoughts as to why we’re just learning about him now months after they stopped filming?
Ivana: At first I kind of was nervous that they were thinking about maybe not including this character, but he plays such a role in the story, so I’m wondering if maybe they were just taking their time?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I almost wondered if they were going to go with the audiobooks’ voice actor, because I forget the name of the actor in the audiobooks, but he’s so good as Peeves, and I thought they were going to maybe pull a similar move to what they did with Hermione, and just say, “Hey, you were really good, so we want you to be in the show too.”
Andrew: Yeah. I have two guesses: First of all, because Peeves is presumably going to be CGI when we actually see him – at least partly CGI – they don’t actually need to film his stuff until after they film all the live action stuff and then add them in later…
Laura: True.
Andrew: … so maybe they were kind of taking their time to see who could bounce well off of the live action actors? But it’s also possible that they wanted to keep it a secret, but then the Hollywood trades – like Variety, Hollywood Reporter, whoever else – got word of his casting and they wanted to report it, and WB was like, “Well, I guess we have to share the news now,” and they decided to just officially announce it. Something like that. But at the least, no matter the situation, it is nice that we are hearing for sure that Peeves is cast, because Micah, he wasn’t in the movies, right?
Micah: No, he wasn’t in the movies, but he was initially cast for Philosopher’s Stone. They intended to include him in the original film, and they actually cast British comedian Rik Mayall in the role, and he reportedly spent several weeks filming as Peeves. And the character was created using a combination of performance and visual effects, so going to what you were just talking a little bit about, Andrew, with the visual effects side of things. But I also remember hearing from Chris Rankin, who has been on the show a couple of times, that he filmed scenes with him, and he was so disappointed that they never ended up making the cut. I’m really excited to hopefully one day be able to see those bloopers.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Right?
Ivana: Wait, yes.
Micah: And it’s no surprise that Peeves was cut due to run time and pacing…
Andrew: [laughs] Of course it’s pacing. It’s always pacing.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: In at least one article, it was noted that Director Chris Columbus said the first film was already approaching three hours and material had to be removed, and of course, Peeves was among those cuts, because you just can’t have chaotic energy inside of Hogwarts in the first film. That must be it, right?
Andrew: I guess.
Ivana: [laughs] No chaos here. What? Gosh.
Laura: Imagine in the year of our Lord 2026 a film running close to three hours being something that directors have an aversion to. I feel like there’s no such thing as a movie that isn’t almost three hours long now.
Micah: I think back to that time, too, and the series you can probably compare it most to is Lord of the Rings, and they easily encroached on that three-hour mark.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Ivana: Absolutely.
Micah: So maybe it was more so they were concerned about kids and their attention span for three hours?
Andrew: Yeah. I guess at the outset they were a little nervous about how long to actually make these movies, because they didn’t know how it’d be received. Chamber of Secrets the movie actually was the longest one at 2:41. Sorcerer’s Stone came in at 2:32, so not that much shorter.
Micah: Which, by the way, Sorcerer’s Stone plus Chamber of Secrets is a great cross-country combination if you’re flying east coast to west coast or west coast to east coast. I’ve done it multiple times. Just throwing that out there.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: You watch those two movies back to back?
Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Wow, nice.
Laura: Good to know.
Ivana: I absolutely believe that.
Andrew: Do you laugh out loud on the plane? Are you one of those people?
Micah: No.
Andrew: Are you like, “Oh my God, there’s Dobby! Dobby, no, don’t do that!”
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: No?
Ivana: “Take the sock!”
Micah: Well, I’ll take you up on that when I fly out to Vegas next week.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, sure. And when you’re arrested at the airport when you arrive…
[Ivana and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That’s too brutal. No, you’ll be fine.
Micah: You’ll bail me out, right?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Wouldn’t be the first time I bailed somebody out of a Vegas jail.
Micah: Oh, really?
Ivana: I need that story.
Andrew: [laughs] So that’s exciting news about Peeves. In other casting news, an actress was cast for Ginny for Season 1 of the show, but the actress who is playing her in Season 1 is going to be recast for Season 2 onward due to unforeseen circumstances. The actress who was cast for Season 1 was Gracie Cochrane, and her family and her issued a statement: “Due to unforeseen circumstances Gracie has made the challenging decision to step away from her role as Ginny Weasley in the HBO Harry Potter series after Season 1. Her time as part of the Harry Potter world has been truly wonderful, and she is deeply grateful to the entire production team for creating such an unforgettable experience.” WB also issued a statement saying they understand, support her decision. We don’t know why; hopefully it’s nothing medical-related or something super, super serious from a personal level. Maybe it’s that her and her family decided they don’t want to go on this ten-year journey; this is a huge commitment. Who knows?
Laura: Yeah, big commitment, especially when you’re that young. I mean, you’re talking about coming of age in a very public way, honestly. No matter how good your parents and the studio are at protecting you, being foisted into the public eye like that is a lot of pressure for a kid.
Ivana: That was my thought. Yeah, I ended up doing this deep dive on Reddit, just to see if… because Reddit knows all, and I wanted to see if there was anything I could find. And it was really actually kind of heartwarming to see Reddit just… “We don’t know this actress yet. She is a kid. She’s not even hit the screen yet.” And it was literally just like, “Protect this girl at all costs. Who knows? Don’t speculate.” And I was like, “Fair enough, Reddit. Okay.”
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. No, it’s true. And I like that the Internet has been very cautious in terms of how they are reacting to the kids so far on all on a whole. When the trailer came out, people were like, “Please don’t criticize them. It’s not… any decision you see in these trailers is not their fault; they’re just doing the best they can to bring these characters to life.”
Micah: I feel like we’re going to talk about this a lot, just that we live in a totally different age than when the films were released, and so the ability to protect those child actors was so much greater than it is today. But if we’re talking about the story itself, I wonder now, knowing that she’s not coming back for Chamber of Secrets, would they look to limit the appearances that she did have in Philosopher’s Stone? I know she doesn’t appear all that much in the book itself, so the likelihood of her having a lot of screen time isn’t really high, unless of course we do spend some more time at the Burrow than we do in the book.
Andrew: It’s a good question.
Laura: This makes me think that they would stick to the story in Ginny’s case, and only show her at King’s Cross at the beginning and the end.
Andrew: Yeah, I agree with that. Maybe they’ll reduce her on-screen time to not get people too used to seeing Gracie play Ginny. Luckily, they’re making this transition now and not later in the series; that would be a little more jarring, even if it was very necessary. So yeah, just a bit of a surprising news item. I don’t think we would have predicted that the first person to be recast for this series would have been a child in between Seasons 1 and 2.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: But we of course hope everything is okay with her and her family, and wish her the best. They have not cast a new Ginny, but I imagine that is happening now. So in some other news, there was a very, very, very, very small new peek at the show through a little preview that HBO released. When this was initially released, Micah was like, “Oh, we’ve got to do a special episode, right?” I’m like, “No, it’s only a five-second clip.” And then he was like, “Well, how about Instagram Live?” And I was like, “No, it’s only a five-second clip. There’s nothing to see here.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: It’s the misleading headlines; that’s my problem. The clickbait gets me every time.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I promise you there were definitely some Harry Potter influencers who absolutely did go on IG live and things like that…
Andrew: Oh. [laughs] Maybe we should have jumped on.
Laura: … so you wouldn’t have been alone if you had done it. It was just the voiceover part of what he said that was new.
[Audio clip plays]
“Mr. Potter… I think we can expect great things from you. Let’s see who you are.”
[Audio clip ends]
Andrew: That’s the new part. “Let’s see who you are.” And I guess it’s good that we’re seeing that, because it is something new compared to the movie and the book. Ivana, obviously Ollivander in the movie, his appearance there is iconic. It’s grilled into our heads. Are you getting the same vibes this time?
Ivana: You know, it’s funny; not immediately. I felt that with John Hurt, with his character, there was just warmth. It was just warmth and magic, and it was radiant, and I didn’t quite get that vibe from him immediately, but I really, really like this curio type of energy he’s giving, and I’m very here for this. I would like to see that. I like that they’re doing it differently, and they’re not trying to just copy and paste everything. I can get down with this. I don’t know. It’s interesting, and I’m intrigued.
Micah: It’s a different side to Ollivander. He seems a little bit more sinister, almost, in his delivery of these lines, but John Hurt had a little bit of that too when he was talking about Voldemort and his wand and the connections to Harry. But what I really think, at least for me, why this particular character comes across the way he does – and I’m curious if folks on the panel have watched Game of Thrones – this is the same actor, Anton Lesser, who played Maester Qyburn, and Qyburn is a disgraced Maester of the Citadel, who’s responsible for all these sorts of inappropriate experiments. He revives the Mountain after he’s injured. And so I don’t know; I can’t yet really separate the two. I’m thinking I’m going to have to really watch him in action before I can believe him as Ollivander.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Laura: Yeah, I think I have enough distance from Game of Thrones to not feel overlap between the characters.
Andrew: To Ivana’s point about Ollivander sticking with you from the movie in particular, I think it speaks to the importance of receiving your wand. It’s a huge moment for any witch or wizard, and actually, we’re going to be talking about this line of thinking in our Chapter 1 reread of Deathly Hallows, because Lucius loses his wand, and it’s demoralizing for him. And you look at a moment like this, where, “Wow, I am a wizard, a wand has chosen me, I have power through this wand,” it’s a huge moment. It’s a moment I think viewers, readers, have wanted to experience too, right? “I’m a wizard. I’m going to Hogwarts.”
Laura: Of course, yeah.
Andrew: Just like receiving your Hogwarts letter.
Micah: I’ll take you the next time we’re in Orlando if you really feel that strongly about it, Andrew.
Andrew: [laughs] Are the lines better? No, they don’t pick you unless you’re a child.
Micah: So bring your nephews, and we’ll be fine.
[Everyone laughs]
Ivana: Listen, we’ll bring my chaos nugget.
Andrew: [laughs] “What’s Harry Potter?” “Don’t worry about it; just get in there and pretend like you want a wand.”
Ivana: [laughs] “Get in line! Oh no, he tripped. I’ll take his place.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Right, he hands the wand to my nephew. I knock my nephew out of the way, like, “Give it to me!”
Ivana: Just clothesline him.
Andrew: He starts crying. “I’ll take you to Super Nintendo World; you’ll be fine.” [laughs] “You can meet Mario later.”
[Ad break]
Andrew: All right, well, hopefully we’ll get more clips before long. Well, speaking of new clips, I just wanted to mention… I thought it’d be fun to make a little prediction right here. The Internet is hoping that we’re going to get a new trailer on September 1; that would be Back to Hogwarts Day. Traditionally, Warner Bros. and Harry Potter Inc. has done a bunch of announcements on Harry Potter Day, Back to Hogwarts Day, September 1. Do you all want to go out on the line and predict that we’ll get our next big trailer on September 1?
Micah: I think it’s certainly possible. The other date that jumped out at me was July 31, which is Harry’s birthday. That could be another option. If we don’t get a full-blown trailer, certainly something; they’d be absolutely foolish – WB marketing, I’m looking at you – to not take advantage of that day.
Andrew: Definitely.
Ivana: I think, too, if they want to keep fan engagement and interest and involvement, they should… actually, I think July would actually be a really good time to do it, but if not, then yeah, I think September would make the most sense. If they don’t, they’re going to drop the ball. But I think it’ll be a testament to whether or not they’ve been paying attention.
Laura: I do want to call out Zeanne in the Discord is mentioning maybe San Diego Comic-Con.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Because that’s coming up at the end of July. Now, it doesn’t fall on Harry’s birthday, but it’s right before that.
Andrew: They could release a teaser during Comic-Con and then release the full thing on Harry’s birthday, potentially.
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: The other thing I was looking at… I don’t know how often they would pair things up, but the finale of House of the Dragon is August 9, so that’s another day to keep an eye on.
Andrew: Oh. No, that’s a good call, because if they were to release it on Harry’s birthday, then it’ll be ready to tie into House of the Dragon, attach it to House of the Dragon. Because they do typically release new previews with premieres and finales, because more people are tuning in.
Laura: That’s a good call.
Andrew: All that said, I’m going to be on a boat on Harry’s birthday to celebrate Harry’s birthday, so I would prefer the trailer is not released then.
Micah: You’ve got Wi-Fi, don’t you?
Andrew: [laughs] It ain’t gonna be fast, though.
Micah: Well, you can’t do IG Live.
Laura: Wow, that’s so sweet.
[Andrew laughs]
Ivana: First thing in my head was, “I got my flippy-floppies and my swim trunks.”
Laura: Right.
[Andrew laughs]
Ivana: Not everyone will get that.
Laura: “I’m on a boat, mother… beep.”
Andrew: Micah is going to be like, “No, we have to IG Live this time!” I’m going to be like, “Sorry, the Instagram Live is locked.”
Laura: Andrew is like, “I’m on a boat.”
[Andrew and Ivana laugh]
Laura: I think it’s really sweet that you apparently take an annual cruise for Harry’s birthday.
Andrew: Yeah, isn’t that nice of me?
Laura: Wow, that is really nice.
Andrew: So we’ll see what happens, but I think July 31 or September 1 definitely are ripe opportunities for the next trailer. And then you would think they would release a final trailer, big trailer within December, maybe, to get everybody hyped up one more time.
Max That
Andrew: All right, so now it’s time for “Max That” Sorcerer’s Stone edition, and everyone, of course, is familiar with our “Max That” segment that we do during Chapter by Chapter, but here on our TV show-focused episodes, we take a deeper dive into the idea of adapting certain book elements for television. And this month, category is: Charlie Weasley. Now, coincidentally, I was planning this segment, and then we asked Ivana to come on, and she was so excited, because Ivana, you actually are very passionate about Charlie Weasley and the idea of him being more involved?
Ivana: [laughs] I am. I have been training my entire reading career for this moment, and I didn’t even realize. Justice for Charlie Weasley.
[Andrew laughs]
Ivana: So the first novel my dad read to me as a book – he is the reason I love literature – was The Hobbit, and that’s dragons for me. That was it. I mean, I love the book, but the dragon Smaug, that was it; that was game over. And so everything for me from then on was magical creatures, dragons, and so when Harry Potter was the first major series I read as a kid, and then they mentioned Charlie Weasley, the brother that works with and trains dragons, that was it. Game over. I was done.
[Andrew and Ivana laugh]
Ivana: And then I was really actually very bummed that he didn’t have a more significant role in the books. And honestly, I’m still upset about the fact that there was no dragon at the Battle of Hogwarts.
Andrew: [laughs] Oooh.
Ivana: That’s something that I’ll just cry about forever, because, I’m sorry, but Rowling was wrong.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Ivana: Just a missed opportunity. And I understand why, but I’m just saying; bring the dragon in, get the kids out, you’re done.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Problem solved, yeah.
Ivana: But then it wouldn’t be a security nightmare, so what are we doing? [laughs] But I would love to see more of him… so I actually have spent the last five years writing a story centered around magical beasts and the dragons of the wizarding world, but also, Charlie Weasley is the main character. And I started writing this when I first joined this podcast, or started following this podcast, and I got back into writing.
Andrew: Aw.
Laura: That’s cool.
Ivana: And I have a Tumblr with headcanons about dragons. I went to school for animal science, too, so this is my jam.
Andrew: Oh, cool.
Ivana: But what if dragons got hiccups? That kind of thing. How would that work? But my final part of my rant, I promise, is I would very much like a segment that… or its own “Max That” that is a day in the life at the Romanian dragon reserve, and I want to see what it’s like to work with dragons. What kind of magic is used? I want to see a gnarly Welsh Green just with golden retriever vibes, or I don’t know, a dragon going to the vet. What would that look like? I want that.
Andrew: Yeah. Okay, awesome. No, I love it. I mean, I wanted to bring Charlie Weasley to the table because he never made it into the films, outside of appearing in a family photograph. But he does, to your point, make several appearances across the series. To remind people, in the Philosopher’s Stone book, Charlie agrees to send some of his friends to pick up Norbert and bring him to a dragon sanctuary, but Charlie doesn’t come. So why introduce random characters picking up Norbert in the show? How about just have Charlie himself go, right?
Ivana: Yes, absolutely. I mean, they’re going to make changes anyway. Every show does; every adaptation does. Make the right ones. That would be a perfect introduction, because if they do continue to include him, Harry would meet him for the first time at the Triwizard Tournament, which they didn’t have him meet him, and it would be the perfect alteration to start getting these characters in.
Andrew: Yeah. He also meets… I think he first meets Harry at the Quidditch World Cup, maybe as a brief meeting.
Ivana: Yes.
Andrew: And then, yeah, he sees him again during the Triwizard Tournament, because he’s also there to help with the dragons, of course. And then the following year he joins the Order of the Phoenix, but in that case he stayed in Romania to recruit foreign wizards to the cause, and that actually seems ripe for adaptation, because after all, in the Fantastic Beasts movies, particularly number three, they made the story global, so if they want to continue that thread of having this global wizarding world, that could be a good opportunity to do so. And then, of course, in Book 7, he’s at Bill and Fleur’s wedding, and he also helps in the Battle of Hogwarts. So lots of opportunities for him to be worked in. It just would be crazy to me, if they are going to adapt the Norbert storyline loyally, accurately, why bring in some random kids? Just jump to Charlie.
Laura: Exactly.
Andrew: So I thought we could also expand this idea to other Weasleys. Anyone have any thoughts on who in the Weasley clan should be getting more screen time, or maybe a better performance? And the reason I say the latter is because the fandom seems pretty certain that Ginny Weasley was done wrong in the movies, and it wasn’t Bonnie Wright’s fault.
Ivana: It wasn’t.
Laura: No.
Micah: Well, she’s not getting more screen time in the first adaptation. We know that much.
Andrew: [laughs] Apparently not. What if she’s in a ton, and they keep it all in? [laughs]
Micah: Well, I think it’s safe to say Fred and George are probably off the table, right? They got a decent amount. Though we could spend more time with them, and I’m sure we probably will.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: But Ginny is an interesting one. Yeah, I totally agree. She did not get the screen time and the writing that she deserved.
Ivana: Yeah, they did her dirty on that one.
Andrew: Yeah?
Ivana: Yeah, I felt like… I mean, in the book she has so much depth; there was so much to her. She had fire, she had… also, there was a lot of movement to her character. I felt oftentimes where she went, there was movement in the story, or there was something that meant more or went deeper than, and I just felt like in the movies she didn’t have that depth. And it made not just Harry’s relationship with her, but her existence in general feel very weak and watered down, and her role made little sense in the movies, and it kind of felt like she was a plot device, and she’s so much more than that. And it always makes me sad to see a strong female character be used as a plot device. It really frustrates me, because it happens often, and you lose quality of that character.
Laura: Totally agree with that.
Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. In terms of Fred and George, I think there’s probably more room to include them. They’re much-needed comedic relief, I think.
Laura: I also think things like Fred’s death at the end of the series are only going to hit harder if we actually get full character development for them. I mean, we get sort of the high notes of their character development from the movies, but there’s a lot that’s left out.
Andrew: Yeah. How about Percy? I think somebody dropped him in.
Laura: Yeah, I put Percy in. And Chris Rankin is a gem, and I mean, he was perfect for the role. The problem with Percy in the movies was they stayed very surface level with him and just made him like, “Oh, he’s kind of an obnoxious rule follower.” And we see that he’s working with the Ministry, but they don’t really dive into it, they don’t go into him being no-contact with his family in the latter half of the series, they don’t go into any of the personal struggle he has with being from a poor family and kind of blaming his father for the position that they’re in and so then trying to do a complete 180 from the way his family operates in order to differentiate himself. There’s a lot of story that gets lost when you don’t include that particular arc from Percy, so I think it’s really important they do that in the show.
Micah: Yeah. There’s a lot that was omitted, especially in the Order of the Phoenix movie, between particularly Percy and Arthur and their whole dynamic at the Ministry. And then also, Andrew, earlier you were talking about Fred’s death, but Percy is there in that moment. He loses the ability to even be fully redeemed because he returns and he comes back and then moments later Fred is murdered, and I think you can’t fully get that family dynamic unless you have Percy present, so I think there’s a lot to be done with that character.
Andrew: Yeah. And Laura, speaking about the Ministry, I think he’s just the perfect vessel, if you will, to bring us inside the Ministry, because he is tied to Harry’s more core family.
Laura: Exactly.
Andrew: And I just can’t wait for the moments when the Minister doesn’t remember his name either.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And then Fred and George playing off of that. That’ll be great. That was fun.
Laura: Calling him Weatherby all the time.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, Weatherby. [laughs] How about another Weasley brother, Bill? He joins the Order in Order of the Phoenix, the book, but we don’t see him until DH1. I think the TV show is an opportunity to introduce him earlier too.
Ivana: Definitely.
Andrew: Ivana, what do you think of this sibling?
Ivana: Yeah, I always found him to be a very interesting character. I love that you brought up Percy, because I was just thinking how their being a family that lives in poverty, I find that the kids all are this reflection of… I almost want to say the coping of, and they are a version of it. Bill, I always read him as the shield of the other siblings, the one that had… he went out, he got the scars, he went to be the big bad, and then Charlie also was the one that kind of went off. But I don’t know, now I’m just reflecting on this, kind of seeing them individually, and for Bill, I would actually very much like to see him a little bit more. And also, he played quite a role in the Order of the Phoenix, because he was a liaison, right, between the goblins, and also the narrative with the lycanthropy. I think that’s very important. If they’re going to really flush that out, I think that he would be an important person to have.
Micah: No, it’s so interesting that you frame it that way, because in terms of how each of the Weasleys are dealing with their situation, you could say Bill goes and works for a bank, right? That’s on the subtextual level… there’s money at banks, right? And what does he lack, or what does his family lack? They lack money. I think Fred and George deal with it through their humor; that’s how they’re able to kind of manage. Ron also at times kind of goes that route of humor, but I think he also just… he wears it on his sleeve a lot more, and he’s much more outspoken about the fact that he’s getting hand-me-downs and other things like that. But yeah, it would actually be kind of interesting to analyze how all the different children manage through this.
Ivana: Because Percy, he’s the judgment; he judges and deflects and distances. And then I feel like Ron, he’s lost. He gets lost in it a little bit, but kind of is finding his ground. And Ginny is, I find, kind of… even though she’s at the end, she is – because of all of these ones that came before her – able to find herself rather quickly as a person, even though she has her trials with Chamber of Secrets and whatnot. It’s just interesting to look at that with that lens, I think.
Laura: Yeah, she is the most resilient, I think, of all her siblings.
Andrew: So we’ve mentioned Molly and Arthur a couple times. I would like to see more of them. The first trailer showed Harry as a bullied outcast, and I just feel like it’d be nice to see more time with his adopted family. It’s been heartwarming to watch Molly care for Harry so much across the series. Reading those lines in the book in particular just make me feel good, so seeing that adapted for television would be great as well.
Ivana: Also Arthur. I want Arthur. I love him.
Andrew: And Arthur. Yeah, Arthur is a weirdo in a good way. [laughs]
Ivana: He’s a national treasure, and I just need him punching Lucius and getting in a fight, and that’s all I ask. Don’t change him; I love him. He’s the one character I’m like, “Just let him be, but also, let him punch Lucius.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: This has to be included in Chamber of Secrets. I mean, it would be a huge crowd pleaser. Potentially very meme-able, too, for the Internet, so at the least, do it for the Internet, HBO. And reading that again, when we did the Chapter by Chapter reread, I had totally forgotten about it, and I couldn’t believe how good it was reading it again. So yes, that has to be in the TV show for sure.
Ivana: And then I feel like with Molly, I want her problematic side. She’s not always great in the books.
Laura: Yep.
Ivana: She frustrated me a lot. And I loved the maternal warm version that we got; it was beautiful, and it’s what we wanted Harry to have, but she was problematic often, and I want that. Don’t make her perfect.
Andrew: Yeah, like with Fleur in particular. Yeah, that would be a big one for me. What else, though, in terms of her problematic side?
Ivana: She over-guarded the children from things. I think she definitely had control issues, and I mean, I get it. And she was… I remember, too, when I was first reading the books and finding her very judgmental, harsh at times, where it surprised me. I wasn’t expecting it to come from her. And then really and truly, as the books went on, that’s when it got a little sharper, the sharp version of her, and I want that. I want to see that.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Think about how she was during Goblet of Fire, and how… what’s a PG word I can use for this? Starts with B, ends with Y, but we’ll just use the word mean.
Ivana: Abrasive.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Catty, how catty she was towards Hermione because of the gossip articles Rita Skeeter was writing about her.
Andrew: Bitchy? Is that the word you’re going for?
Laura: Yes. I wasn’t… it’s a family show, but…
Micah: You can say it.
Andrew: But it’s in the books. That’s all…
Laura: It’s like, “Come on, you’re…” Okay, that’s true.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: But she’s literally… she has beef with a 14-year-old. She’s being a jerk to a 14-year-old over something she read in a gossip magazine. That’s not a great look.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, even the boggart scene when she sees all of her children dead… who did she see dead?
Laura: Yeah, everyone.
Andrew: Was that in the movie?
Micah: No.
Laura: But it wasn’t in the movie.
Andrew: That wasn’t in the movie. Yeah, that’s a great thing to adapt. I mean, that’s going to be heartbreaking to see. But yeah, show her bad side too, her problematic side.
Lynx Line
Andrew: Along these lines of thinking, we have a Lynx Line this week, and it’s prediction-themed. We asked our audience: What character do you believe will be introduced earlier than they were in the books or movies? And Ivana, you brought this up earlier; they’re going to be making some changes in the show. It’s just a fact, and it’s a great fact. I’m personally thrilled by this. It’ll keep the readers and the viewers on their toes. We’re going to be – hopefully – pleasantly surprised most of the time when we see some changes. If there’s some bad changes, MuggleCast will be here to talk about those as well, and I’m sure we’ll probably have some complaints.
[Ivana laughs]
Andrew: But I’ll kick things off. So I think it would be great to see Luna as early as Chamber of Secrets. It’s kind of crazy that some of the characters across the series, the ones that appear later, don’t become known until later in the series, but Luna joined Hogwarts the same year Ginny did, year two, so there’s no reason not to introduce her a little earlier. Luna in particular, she’s a fan favorite character as well, and you could probably partly credit another Evanna, Evanna Lynch, for portraying that role so brilliantly. So my pick would be seeing Luna as early as Chamber.
Ivana: I would love that. She’s my favorite character.
Laura: Yeah. Do you think that they would go ahead and actually cast Luna that early? Or do you think they would just have a stand-in extra who vaguely fits the description of Luna so that we can all be like, “Oh, Easter egg. There’s Luna. If you know, you know.”
Andrew: Or even a passing mention. “Oh, I just left class with Luna.” Ginny says that, or something like that. I guess if I’m being greedy, cast them all as early as possible.
Laura: Speaking of Easter eggs, I was thinking that it would be cool if we got Easter eggs each season for the upcoming year’s Defense Against the Dark Arts professor. So for the first season, I’ll say it would be cool if we got some kind of allusion to Gilderoy Lockhart. For him it could maybe just be a quick shot of a book cover that his face is plastered on, basically. That would be, I think, kind of cool.
Andrew: That would be cool.
Ivana: I would love that.
Andrew: Or even if they’re scared of showing his face because they haven’t cast him yet, maybe at least a book, like the spine of a book, and it says “Lockhart” or something.
Laura: “Magical Me,” yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Micah: It’s just sitting on Dumbledore’s desk because he’s reviewing applications for next year’s DADA professors.
Andrew: Oooh. [laughs]
Laura: Oh, that’s cool.
Micah: Yeah, mine actually is in line with what you were saying, Andrew, and the reason why I think this could happen is because they need to build out the other Houses more, and so Luna is a perfect example of that. I actually went with Cedric and Cho; they appear in Prisoner of Azkaban in Quidditch matches, but we don’t actually spend a lot of time with them until Goblet of Fire, for obvious reasons. So I could see, again, here you have a Ravenclaw and a Hufflepuff coming into play a little bit earlier on.
Andrew: Yeah. No, I love that. Ivana, how about you?
Ivana: Mine was so random, but all I could think of was… I just kept thinking of Mrs. Figg.
Andrew: This is not random. This is incredible.
Ivana: [laughs] Because I feel like it would be feasible. I don’t know if they’ve casted her or not, but because she’s mentioned pretty early on, and for people who don’t know, they wouldn’t know that she plays a role further down the line. And all I could see when I was thinking of this was just Harry having a flashback of just while he’s thinking of not wanting to go over to her house to be babysat of just him with all the cats and her in a cast because I think she broke her leg or something.
[Andrew and Ivana laugh]
Ivana: Just having to just sit there. I feel like… yeah, I don’t know. That was what I saw in my head.
Andrew: No, this is not random at all. Something we love about the books so much is that they did foreshadow things, and we didn’t see that at the time, we didn’t see those things at the time, so why not give us those little foreshadow moments early on in the series? Fans might catch on. Maybe we don’t know it’s Miss Figg necessarily, but it would be amazing to look back in Season 5 of the TV show and see that actually we saw Mrs. Figg in Season 1; we just didn’t necessarily know it. All right, so let’s get to some submissions from our listeners over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Rachel said,
“I think we’ll see Luna before Season 5 of the show, possibly to have more girl characters.”
That’s a good point, too. Just sort of introducing more female characters in the series. That would be nice.
Micah: Justin said,
“It would be badass to start out the show with Sirius and Hagrid’s meetup about Harry and to see Hagrid fly off with his motorbike and then following Sirius for his confrontation with Pettigrew.”
That’s cool.
Laura: Yeah, that would be cool. Cassandra says, “Meeting Cedric Diggory earlier would give his death even more weight. Maybe through Quidditch?” And yeah, that makes sense. That’s how it happens in the books, right? Harry first meets Cedric playing Quidditch against him?
Ivana: That’s actually great. I like that. Sara says,
“I think they will flesh out all the kids early on, along with the Malfoys. I would love to see the Tonkses early on.”
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Ivana: Actually, yes.
Andrew: Rachelpuff said,
“If they do show us scenes at the Malfoys’, maybe Dobby will be lurking in the background. I’m not sure they will make it explicit, though, as the reveal that he has worked for their family is a bit of a plot point in Book 2.”
Yeah, put these little Easter eggs. Pepper ’em in.
Micah: Glo said,
“Compared to the movies? Charlie Weasley. Compared to the books? I’d like off-hand mentions/cameos of the ‘one book’ characters. For example, maybe we’ll hear Lockhart’s name/see one of his books on the shelf sometime during the first season.”
Laura: Okay, Michael says,
“Maybe a flashback with Voldemort could be nice, maybe at the start of the season. This could give background context for those who didn’t know the show and could lead into the title screen.”
I think we’ve talked about that before.
Andrew: Yes, I would love something like this right at the start, because it’s going to be like, “Boom, here’s something you didn’t see in the movies. Welcome to the TV show. It’s all new.”
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Ivana: Carlee says,
“It would be awesome to have the other students (and relevant family members) introduced early on, even just in passing or in large group shots. The way that it would work IRL, like you have seen this kid around at school but never talked to them before. I would enjoy a natural progression like that as opposed to just introducing characters as they become relevant to the main plot.”
Snaps to that.
Micah: You know what this makes me think? The Sorting Hat is just going to be one episode and they’re just going to go through all the kids at Hogwarts.
[Everyone laughs]
Ivana: That’s going to be the two-hour long episode.
Andrew: [laughs] Hey, we’ll take it, we’ll take it. Thanks, patrons, for contributing to that question, and if you have feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. Other ways to get in touch with us include Spotify, our YouTube, or the social media DMs. Next week, ahead of our Deathly Hallows Chapter by Chapter reread – we’ve recorded two chapters already; they were very fun discussions, so look forward to those – we will be releasing a Deathly Hallows – Part 1 movie commentary. This will be the final movie commentary that we’re recording, unless we decide to re-record some in the future. So we’ll finally have completed all of the movies, including the Fantastic Beasts trilogy. So if you’re looking for the movie commentaries at any point, just go to MuggleCast.com, click on episodes, and then click on “Must-Listens,” and you can find links to all of the movie commentary tracks. You can also visit the website for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. Ivana, thank you so much for joining us today.
Ivana: Thank you.
Andrew: And we are Team Charlie, especially after all of your contributions and your thoughts on it.
Ivana: Justice for Charlie.
Andrew: I wanted to mention earlier, listeners, in the show notes we will have links to Ivana’s Charlie Weasley fanfiction, as well as your Tumblr. And what’s on the Tumblr again? Did you mention?
Ivana: So the Tumblr is just kind of… it’s very whimsy, but headcanons, magical creature headcanons. Again, literally, there’s one about if a dragon had hiccups, and then what that would look like if on the reserve in Romania.
[Andrew laughs]
Ivana: And little story blips. Different characters too. It’s a little bit of everything, but it’s just kind of my head, and letting the random thoughts I have about this Potterverse out. And then the story is on Archive of Our Own. It’s called “Sparks in the Rubble,” and it’s kind of an adventure, magical creature story. It’s great.
Andrew: Awesome.
Ivana: I love it. It’s funny too. It’s very silly, but it’s a good time.
Andrew: Fantastic. Thank you again, Ivana, so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. And thank you, our listeners, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Ivana: And I’m Ivana.
Andrew: Bye, everyone.
Laura: Bye, y’all.
Micah: Bye.