Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #757, “A Horcruxy Road Ahead (HBP Chapter 30, The White Tomb)”
Cold Open
Laura: Can you imagine being 15 and calling yourself Lord anything…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … and then well into adulthood?
Andrew: Major red flag at 15.
Laura: Like, “Yeah, I’m still Lord Voldemort.”
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show, so follow us in your favorite podcast app and you’ll never miss an episode every Wednesday. And this week, we hope you can sing in Mermish or fire an arrow cleanly, because we’re paying tribute to Dumbledore and discussing Chapter 30 of Half-Blood Prince, “The White Tomb,” also the last chapter of Half-Blood Prince. Another book, gone. And helping us with today’s discussion is MuggleCast patron, Slug Club member, Sam! Welcome to the show, Sam.
Sam: Hi, thanks for having me. I’m happy to be here.
Andrew: Well, can we get your fandom ID, please?
Sam: Yeah, for sure. So my favorite book is Prisoner of Azkaban; my favorite movie is also Prisoner of Azkaban; I am a Hufflepuff; my Patronus is a gray squirrel; and my favorite passed character is Dobby. And funny enough, my husband and I have three cats, and the middle cat, which is a black cat, is also called Dobby, and so when we got him, he was the runt of the litter, and he had these giant bat-like ears, and then yellow eyes, so of course he had to be Dobby.
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: So cute.
Sam: And then of course I have to mention all the other cats. So the first one is an orange cat, and so we called him Rupert, which I like to say is after Rupert Grint, but my husband says it’s actually for Rupert Giles from Buffy, which, RIP. And then of course we have a third cat, our little baby girl named Yui, and she is named after a singer from one of our favorite animes.
Andrew: Okay, so lots of fandom connections, not just behind you, but also with your animals. [laughs]
Sam: Oh, yeah. Everything.
Micah: I feel as if it’s not always that common for somebody’s favorite book and favorite movie… if you like the Prisoner of Azkaban book as your favorite, you usually do not like the movie adaptation. So I’m curious, what is it about the movie adaptation that you really love?
Sam: I just really like the spin that Alfonso had on it, and so I just thought it was a really creative way to do the book, and I mean, I understand that it’s not totally accurate, but I forgave it because of the artistic choices that he chose. And so I understand the hate, but also I appreciate it. [laughs]
Andrew: Okay.
Laura: Yeah, no, the vibes were right.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, they were.
Laura: That’s what it comes down to for that third movie.
Andrew: But yeah, I think you’re right, Micah. Sam is a rare person who loves the book and the movie. Typically they either love one or the other, but not both.
Eric: Yeah, we come across that with Book 4 a lot, I think, recently too. Book 4, Movie 4, very different vibes, but also some chaos. So yeah, it’s always interesting.
Micah: I will say that the Prisoner of Azkaban movie has grown on me over the years. Very early on, I was anti the adaptation. And I know there’s a lot of plot missing, but as I watch the movie more and more, I’ve come to appreciate it more and more.
Andrew: Okay, that’s good. Before we get into Chapter by Chapter, listeners, if you love MuggleCast as much as the wizarding community loves Dumbledore – aww, that’s going to be proven today – head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and support us there. And to thank you, you’ll receive bonus episodes of the show. You’ll also get ad-free episodes, early access to episodes, a monthly Zoom hangout with the MuggleCasters, bonus episodes of the show, and a lot more. We can’t do this without you, so thank you in advance. And thanks to our newest patrons, including Bafflegab, Julia, Dylan, Nejwa, Melanie, Riley, Jailyn, Sarah, and Kylie. And listeners, would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app, or told a fellow Muggle about the show. And you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear, like I’m finally wearing the “We Criticize Because We Care” T-shirt, and we criticize because we… oh, wow. Okay, Micah and Eric both have the “19 Years Later” tee. Sam is wearing the MuggleCast 15th Anniversary tee. Beautiful.
Micah: Laura?
Laura: And I didn’t get the memo, apparently, that we were coming on theme tonight. My bad.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Laura, you have an excuse every day: Just tell us you’re wearing your pants.
Andrew: Bingo. Bingo.
[Sam laughs]
Laura: That’s true.
Andrew: We wouldn’t ask you to prove it.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I hope not.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But Laura’s Pants are available on the website, so check that out.
Laura: They are.
Chapter by Chapter: Pensieve
Andrew: All right, so let’s get to Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 30, “The White Tomb.”
Eric: You guys, this is the last Pensieve segment ever for MuggleCast, because we won’t be doing it as we go into Deathly Hallows. [whispers] The audio quality is just too bad from 2007. But we last discussed this chapter on MuggleCast 424, which was called “Sad Woodstock.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It aired on July 8 of 2019, and this segment… this clip is very Disney.
Dumbledore: What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I’ve collected. It is from MuggleCast Episode 424.
[Sound of memory uncorking]
[Sound of plunging into Pensieve]
Micah: I thought it was a really nice tribute to have the centaurs, to have the merpeople come out and pay their respects in their own way. I think it speaks to Dumbledore’s character and his reach, just as a person.
Eric: I mean, this is interspecies tribute, is how good it is. These creatures would keep to themselves normally. The centaurs only care about what’s in the sky, except for Firenze. The rest of the centaurs, they don’t need to be there, and the fact that they are there shows that they know how significant this is.
Andrew: Well, now Dumbledore is in the sky too. [weeps]
Eric: Oh, man. Yeah, I wonder if a star appeared the night he died.
Andrew: [laughs] “Ding!”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: That was very Disney.
Andrew: Right, exactly.
[Sound of exiting Pensieve]
Dumbledore: This memory is everything.
Eric: So I think that sets the mood pretty greatly. And also, one final shout-out to Charlie Hopkinson, who has been our Michael Gambon Dumbledore the whole time during the Pensieve segment. Check him out on TikTok, Charlie Hopkinson. He does a lot of cool voices over there. Just wanted to thank him again for his participation.
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: I will say, that Dumbledore voice is actually very sexy.
Andrew: Oh!
Micah: I’ve been holding off saying that until the very end here, but as somebody who also carries a sexy voice, I figured I would pay tribute.
Eric: Yeah, it takes one to know one. Yeah, absolutely.
Laura: Micah, do we need to arrange a meet cute for you two?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: I have his email.
Andrew: Micah’s got something to say for Pride Month that I wasn’t expecting.
Eric: Aww.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: We’re going to stand up and clap, all right, everybody? There’s just… there we go, aww.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Sam is sitting there like, “Yay, Micah came out!”
[Andrew and Sam laugh]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: Speaking of going through emotions, that is what Harry is doing as we start this final chapter of Half-Blood Prince, and Harry has developed a bit of a mantra as it relates to the Horcruxes. He’s trying to channel some of his emotions towards figuring out exactly what it is he’s supposed to do now that Dumbledore is gone, and how to go about this impossible task that lays in front of him.
Eric: Yeah, Harry is leaning forward at night… he’s sitting by a fire and going, “Cersei… the Mount… the Hound… Joffrey… Walder Frey…”
[Micah and Sam laugh]
Laura: That was the first thing I thought of too. [laughs]
Eric: “Meryn Trant… Tywin… Ilyn Payne…”
Micah: That was pretty good recollection, actually, Eric.
Eric: I Googled. [laughs]
Micah: Oh, you did, okay.
Eric: I’m such a fraud.
Micah: But it is very reminiscent of Arya’s list from Game of Thrones; that is also what came to mind for me. And I was curious, when we were growing up, did we have similar practices that we developed that helped us to remember things?
Andrew: I think so. Yeah, I think in school you would have these certain memory tricks so you could ace them on tests, some sort of thinking multiplication tables or acronyms to help you get to the answers that you’re looking for. And I also think this mantra from Harry really foreshadows for the reader just how Horcrux-focused the next book is going to be, which I think in hindsight might be obvious, but that’s basically just telling us that the book is going to be all Horcruxes all the time.
Eric: Yeah, I like that a lot. I definitely remember having those little tricks or mnemonics, like “Every Good Boy Does Fine” is the only one that comes to mind. But there were a lot of those for any particular subject to help with my recall during testing.
Laura: Like “Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally.”
Andrew: Yes, that was a big one.
Eric: Yeah, what was…? Was that the order of operations?
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Yeah, parentheses…
Micah: Isn’t there one for the planets as well?
Eric: Oh.
Laura: Oh, yeah, yeah. “My…” Shoot.
Micah: “Very…”
Laura: “My Very Educated Mother Just…”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Something. I don’t remember the rest of it.
Andrew: Always linking back to a family member, huh?
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Always.
Eric: This sounds like Seven-Word Summary right now.
Andrew: You know what? And I won’t be able to come up with this on the fly, but Blue’s Clues did a Solar System song, and the planets are in order – Sam knows what I’m talking about – and one of the planets…
Sam: I was going to say, yeah, I don’t remember it, but I sing the song every time I need. [laughs]
Eric: What’s the song?
Andrew: “The Sun’s a bright star, and Jupiter is bright too. Earth is home to me and you! Mars is the big one, Saturn’s the most wide. Uranus spins on its side. Neptune’s really windy, and Pluto’s really small. You wanted to name the planets, and now you’ve named them all.” Boom! That’s, like, 70%.
Eric: And meanwhile our youngest listeners at home are going, “What’s Pluto?”
Andrew: [laughs] “And what’s Blue’s Clues?”
Laura: Right.
Eric: Yeah, well, there is that.
Micah: Do we have to worry about copyright infringement for that rendition you just gave us?
Andrew: The singing was so bad that… no.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I don’t think it’ll get flagged by Claude.
Micah: Yeah, so there is this quote from the book about the mantra specifically, and it’s said that it “seemed to pulse through Harry’s mind as he fell asleep at night, and his dreams were thick with cups, lockets, and mysterious objects that he could not quite reach, though Dumbledore helpfully offered Harry a rope ladder that turned to snakes the moment he began to climb.” And we all know the importance of Harry’s dreams in this series, and I wanted to spend a little bit of time trying to see if we could decipher what these snakes are all about, this ladder turning into snakes. Any thoughts?
Eric: I think that maybe… it’s like you think you’re on firm footing, but it turns out you’re not, and so I think that it’s very representative of how far… Harry sort of subconsciously feels like maybe he didn’t get enough information, or he has this mission from Dumbledore, and it looks solid, it looks like it’s going to be a good rope ladder to climb, but then when he reaches for it, “Oh, God, it’s snakes.” He’s not going to be able to climb that safely or without harm coming to him. So I feel like maybe he gets an inkling… he’s not yet at the point I think he gets to in Deathly Hallows where he’s frustrated with Dumbledore, but I think that the problem is he kind of realizes that there’s a lot of information he doesn’t quite know how he’s going to handle it, so I think he’s feeling overwhelmed.
Laura: Yeah, I agree with that. I think it just symbolizes Harry feeling like all of that setup he just got the entire year given to him by Dumbledore was actually a bunch of BS, because…
Eric: Snakes, Laura. We’re saying snakes, instead of BS.
Laura: Yeah, exactly. But I don’t know; there’s the symbolism, too, of the perpetrator of murdering Dumbledore hails from Slytherin House, which, of course, their mascot is the serpent, so there are lots of different ties that we can make in here. But I think it says a lot more that the snake ladder is given to Harry by Dumbledore than it does that the ladder actually turned into snakes, if that makes sense.
Eric: I like that a lot.
Laura: Yeah, he feels kind of inadvertently betrayed, I think, and to your point, we see more of that come out in the next book.
Eric: Yeah, he’s ages away from consciously feeling that, but I love the idea that the seed is here for him to be subconsciously feeling that way.
Micah: What about you, Sam?
Sam: I just thought it was another reminder that Nagini is also a Horcrux, so don’t forget about her.
Andrew: Oooh, yeah.
Laura: Totally.
Eric: So you get cups and lockets and things out of reach, and oh my God! Snake. Yep.
Micah: So one of the other big parts of this chapter, before we get to Dumbledore’s funeral, surrounds two mysterious identities, the first being R.A.B. And Hermione actually comes across some really outlandish findings that… I mean, if they really want to spend some time digging deep into these people, go for it, but I don’t think either of them are the person that Harry and company are looking for. The first is Rosalind Antigone Bungs. The second is Rupert “Axebanger” Brookstanton.
Andrew: [laughs] What are these names? Bungs, Brookstanton… it’s interesting.
Eric: Well, keep in mind Hermione did all of this without Google. Google would not work at Hogwarts.
Micah: Very true and very fair.
Andrew: Well, and in fairness, she does not know about Sirius’s brother, at least his name, as far as I’m aware.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: If anybody should be making the connection here, it’s Harry, but also, Harry is going through a lot right now, so maybe you can understand why he’s not making the connection. But I will just also add, we were talking an episode or two ago about the fandom, how they felt about the R.A.B. “mystery.” Pretty much… there was a debate, but at least on MuggleCast, we knew it had to be Regulus. There was… it just made all the sense in the world.
Laura: Yeah. I will also say, I think it makes all the sense in the world that Harry wouldn’t make the connection at this stage, because he got to learn about Sirius’s brother once, well over a year ago, based on the family tree. That just doesn’t seem like the kind of detail Harry is going to remember.
Andrew: True, yeah.
Eric: We also see in this chapter that Harry is kind of… he’s kind of got a one-track mind, which we’ll talk about a little later, but he is putting the pieces together in the way that they fit. He’s really only grown to hate Snape even more over the last weeks in the beginning of the chapter, and there’s not a lot of room for alternate theories. Or he’s not doing his thinking right now; he’s busy doing his feeling right now, and has to sort of get through this. You getting something, Andrew?
Andrew: Oh, I’m just grabbing the book so I can toss it in the trash once we’re done with this episode.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: Oh, yeah, I mean… right.
Micah: That’s what we do after every Chapter by Chapter is complete.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Famously. Set fire to it.
Andrew: Right, I throw out my precious, beloved original copy of each Harry Potter book.
Laura: Well, because we’re never going to open them again. This is it.
Andrew: I stick with the digital copies, so it’s probably not wrong. [laughs]
Eric: I opened my Goblet of Fire recently, then I remembered that it’s actually a hidden catch. It’s hollowed out, and there’s, I don’t know, my passport from 20 years ago is in there.
Andrew: Oh. You really have one that’s a hidden…?
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Oh, I love that.
Eric: I was with either Micah or Andrew. I thought I was with you guys.
Andrew: This is ringing a bell now. Yeah, I remember this.
Eric: Yeah, it was at a street festival, and Goblet of Fire, and I go to open it, like, “Oh, I wonder what the chapters are in Goblet of Fire…”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: … and it’s inlaid with… bejeweled and… okay, I took the passport out. That’s going somewhere else.
Andrew: I was going to say, you’re not hiding valuables in there, it looks like, so nobody rob Eric and go for that Goblet of Fire book.
Eric: Yeah, if anybody comes here, there’s just going to be a little note in here – I’m going to write it tonight – that says, “Made you look.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Just like Regulus. R.A.B. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, yeah! Oh, no, it’ll say, “To the Dark Lord: I have discovered your secret. E.J.S.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “Who’s that?”
[Ad break]
Micah: Well, Hermione is doing a bit of slow-playing Harry here, because the R.A.B. names are really just a bit of a tease for the big reveal that she has for Harry, and that she was right about Eileen Prince. No surprise that Hermione was on the right track, but if I’m Harry, I’m not sure I really want to hear this right now.
Eric: No, he really doesn’t. And it’s a shame, because I think it’s interesting how balanced it is, of nobody believes that R.A.B. is this Bungs person, but it softens the blow a little bit of, “By the way, though, I was actually spot on,” because she finds this Prophet mention of Eileen Prince marrying Tobias Snape, and if she had found that earlier in the year, it would have 100% sealed the deal and changed the entire plot of the book.
Micah: One thing, though, that it does lead to is a bit of a conversation about Voldemort and Snape, and there’s these comparisons that start to be drawn between the two of them, and to this, Harry says about Snape and his mom, “Yeah, that fits. He’d play up the pure-blood side so he could get in with Lucius Malfoy and the rest of them… He’s just like Voldemort. Pure-blood mother, Muggle father… ashamed of his parentage, trying to make himself feared using the Dark Arts, gave himself an impressive new name – Lord Voldemort – the Half-Blood Prince – how could Dumbledore have missed…?”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, this is an example of Harry’s tunnel vision, I think, here, because it’s true that you could see “The Half-Blood Prince” as some kind of self-aggrandizing nickname, but I think what it really underscores – and Harry will get this when he sees the memory from young Snape cowering in a corner while his dad yells at his mom – it’s a way of honoring his mother, is what it comes down to. I don’t think of “The Half-Blood Prince” as something Snape did to brag; I think of it as a way of drumming up the mother connection that he loves. So the other aspect of this is that Snape being such a good chameleon double agent, it maybe was actually very useful for him to have a nickname kind of like Lord Voldemort does, so that the Death Eaters would believe he was one of them, because all the cool cats have it. So again, it might not be like he’s adopted this name because he likes it the way that Harry so closed-mindedly thinks that he does. There’s just a lot more going on with Snape. Harry does not at all consider – we aren’t shown that he considers – that Snape may have killed Dumbledore on purpose, on Dumbledore’s orders, that Dumbledore was intending for it to happen exactly that way.
Laura: Totally. Harry is in complete confirmation bias mode here. It’s like everything that he has believed about Snape for the last six years, he believes has been proven correct by what he just witnessed, right? So to him, it’s very linear. “A, B, then C is my outcome.” So yeah, he’s just not in a place to be thinking with any level of nuance about this, or to really be thinking about how strategic Dumbledore is. Now he’s just thinking of him as an old man who got fooled, honestly.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, who he had learned to trust.
Micah: Laura, you also had a nice call-out here, though, for Snape.
Laura: Oh, in defense of Snape? Yeah, so I’ll say this: At the very least, Snape dropped his high school edgelord pseudonym before he branched into adulthood, which is more than we can say about Voldemort.
Andrew: [laughs] [imitating Voldemort] “Hey, I still think it’s cool! Leave me alone!”
Laura: Can you imagine being 15 and calling yourself Lord anything…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … and then well into adulthood?
Andrew: Major red flag at 15.
Laura: Like, “Yeah, I’m still Lord Voldemort.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, well, the other component is you just have to strike fear into everyone that hears it. The enigma.
Laura: Right.
Micah: Well, the Chosen One lumps himself into the mix, noting that he went the other direction. I think this is actually an astute observation on the part of Harry.
Laura: Yeah, I definitely think so.
Andrew: Went the other direction as in he went to the good side?
Micah: Yeah, he didn’t fall into the same traps as Voldemort and Snape did.
Eric: Right.
Micah: Or as Snape allegedly did. We should still give him the benefit of the doubt, despite what he did to Alby. One other thing that I thought was important to call out that throughout all this… or this is actually at the funeral, I think; Harry is reflecting on Draco in particular, and he really pities him. It’s a situation that I think somebody has a note in here about that I don’t think Draco would have ever wanted Harry to bear witness to, but he does, and I think it is very revealing of Draco’s true character that we see that he never would have had the ability to take out Dumbledore. And Harry… I don’t want to say that things are fully resolved between him and Draco, but there seems to be a part of him that no longer maybe looks at Draco the same way that he once did.
Eric: 100%.
Laura: Yeah, I think so.
Eric: It’s a big, big moment for Harry.
Andrew: And I hate to call…
Laura: Yeah, it’s big character development for both of them, honestly. Go ahead, Andrew.
Andrew: Well, and I don’t know if “foreshadow” is the right term here, but this does hint at what is to come, that Harry and Draco will make amends and become friends-ish.
Laura: Frenemies.
Eric: Co-stars, in the Cursed Child.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I mean, I think it’s ultimately important to the setup that we have ahead of the encounter they have at Malfoy Manor in the next book where it’s pretty clear Draco knows it’s Harry, but he’s hesitating to out Harry for who he is, and I think Harry knows that Draco knows. You can extrapolate that further to talk about then what Narcissa does at the end of the book, right? So it’s just… yeah, it’s very interesting.
Eric: And Malfoy never would have chosen for Harry to witness his failing; of course he wouldn’t.
Laura: Right.
Eric: But because he did, Harry is able to then empathize and be like, “Well, what’s Voldemort doing right now to Draco because Draco failed? Is he taunting him? He’s clearly in a situation well over his head,” and that may in fact be a gift. The last gift that Dumbledore gave to Harry was this keen insight into his would-be enemy, which has the effect of eventually making Harry understand that Draco is not ultimately his enemy.
Micah: Well, one of the other things that we’re able to kind of take away… we’re going to spend a lot of time honoring Dumbledore in the next part of the conversation. But as Harry is sitting there at Dumbledore’s funeral, he really starts to recognize that things are forever changed. All of these people who have been his protectors for all of his life, or for parts of his life, are now gone, and the quote from the book is, “And Harry saw very clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore, all determined to protect him; but now that was over.” And Eric, this might go a little bit to what you were just saying: Is it fair to say that Dumbledore’s funeral is as much about paying tribute to him as it is about a transfer of responsibility?
Eric: I think so. I think that Harry internally understands that no one is left who can shield him from the pain he’s now feeling, and so I think he’s feeling very vulnerable, both for the first time, but maybe he’s like, “Oh, well, they were always not as sturdy as I thought they were.” So he’s just having to feel the full weight of his emotions. Even when Sirius died last year, even though he raged and raged at Dumbledore, he still had somebody in Dumbledore who understood how he felt about Sirius, and no one that Harry knows, none of his friends, including Ron and Hermione, really quite understand the way that Harry felt about Dumbledore, and he’s got to bear the weight of his grief pretty much singularly, even though this is the most well-attended funeral Harry will ever see.
Andrew: I think Harry is being a little too hard on himself, though. He still has people looking out for him. Lupin is the first character that comes to mind. But on the other hand, I think it’s normal at this stage for Harry to wallow in this sorrow and be like, “Oh, all my people are gone.” It is true that the biggest people – a couple of the biggest people – are gone, Dumbledore and Sirius, namely. But yeah, I just think he’s beating himself up a little too much, and maybe in time he comes to realize, especially when you get around to the Seven Potters, all these people who are helping him. There’s a lot of people who are still on his side and still care for him and still want to protect him, and will do anything, will put their own lives in danger – as we see in this chapter with Ginny – to protect him and do right by the wizarding world.
Laura: I think that’s part of what he has a problem with, though, is not wanting anyone else to die for him, and I think what you just brought up, Andrew, though, it kind of speaks to the level of isolation that Harry is feeling. And we’ve gotten to see how Harry reacts to isolation before, and that was pretty much the entirety of Order of the Phoenix when he felt so alone in this struggle that nobody else could understand. He’s in a similar place here, so I think that’s why he’s going full catastrophizing, and assuming that he really has no one left, when that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Micah: Well, one person that is more than happy to offer assistance to Harry – Harry wants none of – and that is the Minister for Magic, Rufus Scrimgeour.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But he does make a pretty decent offer to give Harry Auror protection or assistance. And I’ll be honest: Is this the best moment for the Minister to be approaching Harry? Probably not. Is there a good moment? Probably not.
Andrew: Time is of the essence. I can see that’s why the Minister wants to say something now.
Micah: But should Harry have at least taken a little bit of time to consider the offer?
Andrew and Eric: Yes.
Andrew: Jinx. Harry brings up the Aurors are not going to stop Voldemort, so I think that’s a really good point.
Eric: Well, they could try. They could slow him down a little bit, right? To refuse Auror protection because it’s not 100% infallible is stupid.
Andrew: “Your people suck!”
Eric: Yeah. I mean, look, we know, especially hindsight being 20/20, that Rufus Scrimgeour can’t even protect his own life for very much longer. So yes, it’s reasonable to assume that Harry has something right about, “Oh, it’s imperfect, and your guys won’t do a good job, and I’d be giving up too much.” Okay. But at this juncture, to Laura’s point, Harry is convinced he’s going it completely alone. He doesn’t even think Ron and Hermione are going to join him because he’s catastrophizing. He’s like, “I’m so alone, I’m so isolated, I’m going it alone.” And if you’re in that place where you’re really fully preparing to go after four Horcruxes on your own, and the Minister for Magic comes and offers you his best Aurors, pretty much, he’s not going to… because here’s the other thing: Scrimjeour is not going to give Harry’s protector job to bad Aurors. He’s going to probably choose his best people, because they need Harry to be the poster boy, etc. etc. So they need Harry alive. If something bad happens to Harry and the Aurors were with him, that makes the Ministry look horrible.
Andrew: It’s a great point. It’s a great point.
Laura: See, and this is where I disagree. I think my disagreement stems from the reality that Scrimgeor isn’t doing this for Harry’s protection. I don’t even know that he personally gives a damn about Harry’s protection.
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: At the end of the day, what he’s concerned about is good optics for the Ministry, so if they can do anything to sort of pass off the appearance of Harry Potter teaming up with the Ministry to fight Voldemort, they get to ride Harry’s coattails if he succeeds, and they get to spin the narrative about what happened in a way that is most advantageous to them if he fails. Plus, the Ministry has been infiltrated, so I don’t think there’s any reason to trust any of these Aurors, especially ones that the current Minister for Magic believes to be trustworthy.
Eric: Well, it would be Kingsley, right? And Kingsley is in the Order.
Laura: I mean, would it be?
Eric: Yeah, Kingsley and Dawlish. [laughs] And one would probably kill the other.
Micah: I mean, in fairness, Tonks was at Hogwarts for a portion of this year, and the Death Eaters still infiltrated the school.
Laura: Right.
Eric: Blame Tonks!
Andrew: That’s just one person, though. That’s a little unfair. And she was depressed.
Micah: But Sam, I did see you nodding your head while Laura was talking, so I was curious if there was anything else you wanted to add there.
Sam: Yeah, I definitely agree with Laura’s side. It’s kind of hard to trust anyone there, and also, I mean, what if you didn’t side with Harry? What if that had changed the entire Book 7? What if Voldemort realized, “They’re going after my Horcruxes”? What if he changed everything and then you’d be screwed because it wouldn’t be where they are, where he figures out they are, later? So yeah, I feel like it was a safety net to not involve them so that Voldemort isn’t aware of what Harry and Dumbledore knew, so that he would be none the wiser.
Micah: Yeah, it’s too risky.
Laura: Yeah, they’re a liability.
Andrew: How awesome would it have been if the author named the last book “Harry Potter and the Ministry of Magic,” and then it totally faked us out? Like, “Wait, is he going to team up with the Ministry of Magic? What does this mean?”
Eric: Ohh, “Harry Potter and Besties.”
Andrew: I would have just liked if we were all freaking out, like, “Oh no, how could he team up with the Ministry?” And then that is not the case.
Eric: That would be fun.
Andrew: But I do think there would have been some value in not saying the Ministry is doing a great job, but offering the wizarding community some sort of statement. There could have been something to make the community feel a little bit more comfortable about the situation? Harry doesn’t have all the answers, but I think he could have said something. “Hey guys, I know what I need to do. Hey guys, I’m working on it.” [laughs] I don’t know, just something. He doesn’t have to speak for the Ministry…
Eric: “Hey, guys, watch this space.”
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. He doesn’t have to say he’s…
Laura: “Let’s circle back next year.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: “Let’s circle back.”
Andrew: “We’re going to put a pin in this. I’m going to go on the road for a little while, see what’s happening.”
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: “In the meantime, sign up for my Patreon.”
Micah: That’s so Ministry.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: He wouldn’t be doing it for the Ministry; he’s doing it for the wider wizarding public. That’s what I think he should have done. Hermione could have helped him come up with a statement.
Eric: I think there’s something to that. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I think there’s absolutely something to that. I think to dismiss any and all involvement between him and the Ministry right out the gate, right here at Dumbledore’s funeral, is premature and/or not super well thought out. We know it works out, but yeah, there’s some value to that. I think also, Harry is just very cynical, or just so downtrodden and so upset right now, that the idea of even planting false hope in a wizarding public is unbearable, because he himself does not really have that much hope to begin with. So Harry himself is feeling helpless, and he’s having dreams about snake ladders and all this stuff. It’s like maybe if Harry were feeling a little bit more optimistic, his answer might have been a little different.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I don’t really think it’s appropriate to say, “Well, our government isn’t able to offer any kind of rallying sentiment to make people feel better, so let’s ask this 16-year-old to do it.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I would also just observe who all is present at this funeral, and I know we’re going to chat about that a little more later, but Umbridge is there, and we know that she kind of gets her own operation shanghaied by the locket Horcrux in the next book, right? So she’s vulnerable. And if Harry stands up in front of everyone and says, “Don’t worry, guys, I have a plan,” it doesn’t exactly guarantee him the level of secrecy that he needs to be able to move forward. Because Rita Skeeter is there too, so she’s going to be like, “Hey, Daily Prophet, Harry Potter has a plan; don’t worry. What might his plan be, you ask? Well, I’m going to ask some of his schoolmates what they think.”
Micah: It is interesting, too, from an awareness standpoint. You would think that if you were the Ministry, the last thing that you would want is somebody like Umbridge to show up at Dumbledore’s funeral if you’re trying to get Harry on your side.
Eric: Ohh.
Micah: So clearly was not thought through very much on the part of the Minister. But I agree, and look, anybody should be able to pay tribute to Dumbledore, but I’m not quite sure that’s why Umbridge was there at the end of the day.
Andrew and Eric: No.
Micah: Same goes for Rita.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, Rita is taking notes. Rita’s got a little quill and a notepad.
Andrew: I have a theory about that, but I’ll save it for when we get through who’s at this funeral.
Micah: Bonus MuggleCast? No.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: So the last thing I wanted to touch on before we talk about the funeral itself was the road ahead, and it’s a very emotional conversation between Harry and Ginny, and Harry feels very strongly that they need to part ways because he recognizes the importance of distancing himself from those that are closest to him, though people would still know that he was in a relationship with Ginny, so I don’t know that I really agree with this at the end of the day. There’s so many people out there that are close to Harry that would be targets, but for the purposes of the story, Harry and Ginny, and the purposes of Eric’s fanfiction…
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: Right, right. This is the sad ending that has to exist at the end of the book so that we can reflect on all the good that will yet to be written. No, I agree. I think that we in the past have compared it to the ending of Spider-Man 1, when Peter Parker tells Mary Jane they can’t be together for reasons. And it’s not a wrong comparison, but what I appreciate most on this read-through is the way that Ginny not only takes the news… she says, “It’s for some sad, stupid, noble reason, isn’t it?” And it’s like, oh, she understands 100%, and she understands sort of more than Harry does kind of what it is that he wants or needs. There’s two moments in this chapter where Ginny kind of wordlessly… Harry doesn’t really have much of a focus, and she nudges him or points to, “Oh, look at the lake; something’s happening in the lake,” and he’s like, “Huh? What?” and looks at it. And so I think that Ginny is doing something that’s very, very hard to do, that not a lot of other people could do, which is to anticipate Harry’s needs and emotions right now, and I think that, believe it or not – nobody’s more surprised than me – there’s actually some little bits in this chapter that I think solidify that they are actually really perfect for one another, even though he’s breaking up with her here.
Andrew: Well, speaking of superheroes, Sam, this reminded you of a superhero scenario as well?
Sam: Yeah, no, Eric took the words right out of my mouth. I thought of Spider-Man as well, and thought, yeah, it’s the superhero cliche of “I gotta break up with my girlfriend to save them.” But if things work out, they’re going to get back together.
Andrew: It’s kind of insulting to the partner. Like, “Oh, you’re doing this because I definitely can’t survive this unless you break up with me.” [laughs]
Eric: Oh, yeah. Although, it’s also hard for Ginny to be like, “No, you’re right,” because he says, “What would happen if I lost you too?” Harry right now is so, so, so hurt at losing Dumbledore. Ginny isn’t selfish enough to say, “No, you don’t need to worry about losing me,” because she doesn’t know, right? And so she understands that he cares about her quite a lot, so I don’t know. It’s what anybody would react if you said the same thing to them, or them to you. It’s like, “Okay, I’ll let you have this one for now.”
Micah: Well, what about Ron and Hermione?
Eric: They’re holding hands. They’re crying on each other. I think they’re going places.
Micah: Well, you know, one breakup, one union, all happening at a funeral.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: But no, this surprised me, though, that Harry didn’t think that Ron and Hermione would want to go with him.
Andrew: Yeah, of course. I don’t… is this just Harry in grieving mode, not thinking this through? Because yeah, of course they’re going to go with him. And somebody needs to go with him. I mean, my goodness.
Eric: He has to take Hermione.
Andrew: Yeah. I don’t know. Is he thinking he’s going to take somebody from the Order? That’s the only other thing I can think. Bring an adult with him? I don’t know, but you can’t do this by yourself. There’s no way.
Laura: Yeah, I don’t actually think he’s thinking logically about it.
Micah: He’s not thinking in this moment.
Laura: This is an emotional response, and again, I think it’s the feelings of isolation.
Andrew: Well, and who can blame Harry for not wanting Ron and Hermione to go when he just lost another dear person in his life?
Laura: Of course.
Andrew: He brings this up. “How many more people can I put in harm’s way?” It is a tough situation.
Laura: Well, and he just broke up with his girlfriend too.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. But if they’re offering, then the fault is not his. “Oh, well, you wanted to come. Sorry that you’re dead, but you wanted to come.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Well, and he’s got to extend the…
Micah: Well, they’ve always worked as a threesome, right? They’ve always been together. The fact that he just doesn’t think that they would come along with him… I don’t know how he would expect to get anything done without them, honestly. [laughs]
Eric: He doesn’t have a glimmer of hope. He’s hopelessly outmatched and uninformed. But that’s just it; you don’t know how he would think… he’s not thinking. He’s not thinking right now.
Andrew: You need Hermione’s giant bag. That is the key to all of this.
Eric: If nothing else. The beaded bag.
Andrew: If nothing else, think of the bag.
[Ad break]
Micah: All right, it is time to pay tribute to Albus Dumbledore here on MuggleCast. Hopefully the TV show will pay tribute to him, unlike the movie did.
[“Max that” sound effect plays]
Micah: Because as we said I think on the last episode, you can’t have two funerals in one movie. [laughs]
Andrew: No.
Micah: You have to pay tribute to the big giant spider.
Andrew: [laughs] Over Dumbledore himself.
Eric: It’s true. That spider’s done a lot for the wizarding world.
Micah: But yeah, I appreciate the “Max that,” Andrew. This is something that absolutely needs to make it to the TV show. And it’s very clear, and this was played in the Pensieve clip, that Dumbledore is beloved by the wizarding community, and I was wondering, do we think that his funeral is a reflection of the unity he was working so desperately toward?
Andrew: Aww.
Micah: And when I was thinking about it, I thought that it was this bittersweet element, because the unity begins to arrive after his death. So while he was alive, people questioned him, they ignored him, they removed him from positions of authority, and they often failed…
Eric: They used to laugh and call him names.
Andrew: They doubted what he was saying about Voldemort being back. He was absolutely right about that.
Micah: Right.
Eric: They wouldn’t let him play in any of the reindeer games.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. You’re right, though, Micah. They didn’t realize what they had until he was gone. It reminds me of when I order a Cheesy Gordita Crunch at Taco Bell. I eat it, and then only after I wolf it down do I truly appreciate what that Cheesy Gordita Crunch did for me.
Micah: And what did it do for you?
Andrew: It brought me a lot of joy and happiness, and it knew that Voldemort was back. [laughs] But I was thinking, the turnout for Dumbledore’s funeral is impressive, and I was thinking, who could draw this amount of people? The students, of course, will show up, but from outside of Hogwarts, this is a pretty impressive lineup. This is like a presidential level type of funeral, in my opinion, and it obviously speaks to just Dumbledore’s influence and his accomplishments in the wizarding world.
Eric and Micah: Absolutely.
Micah: Significant are both the merpeople and the centaurs, and we know that Dumbledore treated nonhuman magical beings with respect, with dignity, when others did not, and I think their presence is a testament to the bridges that he was trying to build in the wizarding community.
Andrew: Yes.
Micah: And I think the centaurs, in particular, because of how isolationist we know them to be, the fact that they would all come, that they would all show up and pay tribute to him, is pretty extraordinary.
Eric: Agreed.
Laura: Definitely. I think, especially since we know that they don’t entirely agree with Dumbledore… I’m thinking specifically about his decision-making in Order of the Phoenix with making Firenze the Divination professor. Obviously, we know they took that out on Firenze more than anyone, but they definitely didn’t agree with what Dumbledore was doing.
Micah: Some other notables: The House ghosts are all there.
Eric: Yeah, you can’t quite see them, but they’re there.
[Andre laughs]
Laura: I mean, what else do they have to do?
Andrew: Not too much of a surprise, yeah. This is the most exciting thing on the docket.
Micah: Where was Peeves, by the way?
Andrew: Probably causing trouble in the school. This is a perfect opportunity to cause some chaos.
Eric: It’s the perfect opportunity, yeah.
Andrew: Nobody can yell at him.
Micah: He was probably being cast in Sorcerer’s Stone.
Eric: Actually, Peeves was flitting between the feet of everyone at the funeral, tying their shoes together, and we didn’t see this part, but as they stand up, they just fall flat on their faces.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Now, we alluded to this earlier, but the Ministry officials who are in attendance… Scrimgeour we talked about, but Umbridge and Fudge are both there.
Andrew: “Hem-hem!”
Micah: And I have questions about both of these individuals. For Umbridge, do we think she was forced to show up? For Fudge, this is probably the most curious of any appearance for me, because we know, number one, he’s no longer Minister. Number two, he didn’t have a great relationship with Dumbledore.
Andrew: So in terms of Umbridge, who would have forced her to go? Scrimgeour?
Micah: Maybe.
Eric: I think her role… I agree she was forced. I don’t think it was by a person; I think her hand was forced. I think that given what she’s hoping to accomplish at the Ministry with a high-ranking political whatever it is that she’s going for, you can’t not show up to “pay your respects” to a dignitary like Dumbledore, even though her presence is disrespect, really.
Andrew: Yeah. She’s not there because she cared about Dumbledore; she’s there to make an appearance. She’s there for work. She’s there to show that she showed up, like other Ministry officials. Maybe she was also there to talk up some people. There were definitely ulterior motives that were not, “Oh, I loved Dumbledore so much and I’m paying my respects.”
Laura: Totally. No, I think it’s optics again.
Eric: Her absence would have been noted.
Laura: Yeah, this is what it goes back to, I think, for Fudge and for Umbridge, is how does it make them look?
Eric: For Fudge, I see it a little differently, because I feel like in his own way, Fudge feels like he maybe…
Andrew: [laughs] Is responsible for his death?
Eric: No, no, but that he respected the man. I think… we know that no such thing happened, that Fudge and Dumbledore were not friends, but I wonder, or can’t help but wonder, if Fudge thinks that they were, right? Fudge might think that there was some level of mutual respect, when in fact we would know it to be more one-sided. Does that make sense?
Andrew: Yeah, I could see him being delusional like that.
Laura: I mean, he is kind of out of touch, so that tracks.
Andrew: But I really do think he could feel a little responsible for Dumbledore’s death. He was denying the return of Voldemort, years wasted. Sam, what do you think?
Sam: To go back to Umbridge, do you think maybe she went just out of some morbid pleasure of seeing Dumbledore dead?
Andrew: Oooh.
Sam: I mean, she watched so many students writing with their own blood and stuff like that, and it didn’t faze her. She did the whole Muggle-born thing and took away wands from witches and wizards that she thinks didn’t deserve it.
Andrew: That’s a great point. I wouldn’t put that past her, for sure.
Laura: No, it strikes me as pretty accurate that her internal monologue at this funeral would be, “Well, look where you ended up, Albus. You’re so much smarter than all of us, and look where you are now.” She’s petty. She would have that kind of dialogue running through her head.
Eric: She’s gloating? Yeah.
Micah: Not trying to give Umbridge any sort of benefit of the doubt here, but is it also possible that Hogwarts professors were invited, no matter if you were a current professor or former professor?
Andrew: Oh. Yeah, that would make sense too. During Dumbledore’s reign, yeah. But still, she wouldn’t have to show up.
Eric: No, no. I could easily see Minerva making sure that invitation in particular gets lost in the mail.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Would Dumbledore want Umbridge there? [laughs] I doubt it.
Eric: No, no. Well, but that’s the thing, isn’t it? What Harry is going through feels reminiscent… not that I have a specific example of someone I know that attended somebody’s funeral who they didn’t get along with, but this feels true to life, right? We convince ourselves… or funerals are an opportunity… maybe one of their main purposes is closure, not for the dead person, but for anyone that knew them, and so several people who were more adversarial toward Dumbledore… this is several people’s way of saying goodbye to that relationship. This is more for them than for him.
Micah: That’s a good point. A few of the other random characters that make an appearance or are noted are Tom the Barman from the Leaky Cauldron, Ernie from the Knight Bus, the mysterious barman… there’s a lot of barmen floating around, but it’s Dumbledore’s funeral, of course…
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: … from the Hog’s Head, the Trolley Lady, who we still don’t have a name for, Grawp, Rita Skeeter. So we’re definitely going through the feels here from previous books.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, in terms of… it is cool to see this large roster of people come back to Hogwarts to pay their respects. In terms of Rita Skeeter, Eric, I think you mentioned she’s there with a notebook. I’m guessing she’s doing some reporting for her Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore book. At first glance, she might just be there to report for the Prophet, but she turns that book around in just a few months. She’s actively working on it right now, if she wasn’t even working on it before Dumbledore died.
Eric: That’s the coolest thing.
Andrew: So this is a little foreshadowing too.
Eric: I’ve never put that together before reading it this time, and yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Andrew: And there’s so many people to talk to here, for her, for this book. I mean, this is an amazing opportunity.
Eric: Oh, right. In fact, there’s somebody that gives a eulogy; it’s got to be Elphias Doge, doesn’t it? But he’s not named, and he’s not really described that well, because Harry, in particular, is tuning out. But yeah, I agree. All the people that would have juicy scoops on Dumbledore are probably the ones at his wedding. Or at his funeral.
Andrew: [laughs] Aww, way to rub it in.
Eric: His wedding to Grindelwald was cut. It would have been in the fourth Fantastic Beasts film, but…
[Micah laughs]
Laura: Not cut, just parked.
Eric: Parked, yeah.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: That turnout is amazing. I can’t think of a single other group of beings who should be there. That’s a wonderful turnout.
Micah: It is, isn’t it? But Andrew, noticeable by their absence are the house-elves.
Andrew: Oh.
Micah: Where the hell are the house-elves? Are they busy cooking lunch for everybody?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Like, “Hey, Dobby, pastrami on rye.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Well, it is strange, because the centaurs and the merpeople are there, so not even one house-elf is there?
Micah: Right, are they only allowed to run out of the kitchens once in the next book, when Kreacher comes running out with a frying pan?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Oh, I’m certainly glad that they do. No, I think that the stigma of house-elves is so great that they are prevented from showing up. Somebody higher up – maybe about half the school governors – feel that it would be indecent to have the help be so visible. That’s my take on it, anyway.
Laura: Yeah. Well, and I think it’s probably likely that they just weren’t considered, that nobody thought to invite them. Just like nobody really thinks about their wellbeing in these books, except for Hermione.
Eric: Also, what did Dumbledore do for them?
Andrew: Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. That’s a whole other can of worms, but they’re working for him at the school.
Micah: Gave them a job. LegalizeGillyweed said, “They’re making some Cheesy Gordita Crunches.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Aw, yum.
Eric: Now I want that, for reasons.
Micah: So I thought we could wrap up this chapter and this book just talking about the symbolism of where Dumbledore is buried, inside of this white tomb, because we love symbolism on the show. And I think as we all know, white is a symbol of purity and transcendence, and throughout the series, Dumbledore repeatedly teaches Harry that death is a natural part of life, and what’s so cool about this is that it stands in direct opposition to Voldemort, whose entire life is defined by the fear of death. And in Deathly Hallows, Dumbledore rests in this white tomb, and it’s almost like this acceptance of death. Voldemort, as we’ll read when we get to Deathly Hallows, violates this tomb because he cannot accept death, right? He’s going after the Elder Wand. And Dumbledore’s body is left undisturbed, despite the theft, while Voldemort’s obsession ultimately destroys him. So I don’t think it’s by accident that Dumbledore is buried in this white tomb.
Eric: Also, “Albus” means white.
Andrew: Ahh.
Micah: And “Dumbledore” means bumblebee? Is that right? [laughs]
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: It’s not mentioned in this chapter, but there’s actually a lot of bumblebees around the tomb.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And in doing another little bit of research on the tomb, it’s said to almost have this Arthurian quality to it, because King Arthur, when he passes, he’s taken across the water to Avalon, which is a sacred island where he rests after his final battle, and it was also noted that water often functions in mythology as a boundary between worlds, the realm of the living and the realm of the dead, or the ordinary world and the sacred world. So again, a lot of symbolism at play here with where physically Dumbledore is resting. I think in the movie they move him to an island, but I think in the books he’s just kind of on the shores of the lake. Anything else before we put a bow on Half-Blood Prince?
Eric: Aw. Did you…? I know we mentioned who else is there. Did we talk about Madame Maxime? Just that she’s there, and Hagrid is very, very happy to see her.
Andrew: Yeah, good for them. Find some joy on this sad, sad day.
Micah: You think they would get into a throuple with Grawp, or that’s too much?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That’s too much.
Andrew: I think that’s too much.
Laura: Well, Grawp is Hagrid’s brother.
Eric and Micah: Half-brother.
Andrew: Half-brother, excuse me.
Laura: Oh, yeah. Sorry. So much better that he’s his half-brother. [laughs]
Andrew: That makes it okay. That’s why Micah is asking.
Micah: [laughs] I mean, do we have the DNA results to prove that?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: 23andMe.
Eric: I’d love to see you try and get them.
Micah: [laughs] I don’t want to even think about that.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But it’s interesting when you said Madame Maxine, because I thought, “Oh, where’s Karkaroff?” And I’m like, “Oh, yeah.”
Eric: Oh, he died.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. No, like I said, another book gone. This one is kind of important in the history of MuggleCast, of course, because the book had just come out when MuggleCast started, and we were speculating about this book, and here we are 21 years later, still talking about the details of this book. It’s amazing.
Eric: Really love that.
Lynx Line
Micah: All right, well, over on our Lynx Line, we asked the question: How would you pay tribute to Dumbledore? And we’ll get to the host answers first before we jump into the answers from our patrons.
Andrew: Yeah, gin came up in this book, actually, and I would just toast Dumbledore with the finest glass of gin I could find, maybe Emma Watson’s gin; I don’t know if that’s the finest glass, but I’ll grab her gin for the Harry Potter connection.
Eric: I will pay tribute to Dumbledore by embroiling everyone I know in a secret plot that will change their lives forever, but I won’t tell them.
Andrew: Oh, brother.
Eric: Then when they guess that this is happening, because so much is happening around them, I will never tell them when they are correct about it, and I will leave the only hope of them figuring out the answers with their most hated individual, my murderer, who himself will have to die before they ever get their secrets told and answers received.
Andrew: But it’ll still all get worked out in the end, so I guess it was a smart move after all.
Eric: Yeah, we love a happy ending. So that was my idea.
Micah: I just went with a Phoenix Scholarship at Hogwarts.
Andrew: Oooh.
Laura: Aw.
Micah: A nice way to honor the former headmaster.
Eric: That’s really classy.
Andrew: That’s actually a good answer. Good job, Micah. [laughs]
Eric: That’s really good, yeah.
Laura: I was just feeling kind of unhinged, so I said I’ll ask one of my cohosts to murder me.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Oh my gosh.
Andrew: “Andrew… please…”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: That’s exactly what I was thinking.
Andrew: I’ll be like, “I’ve been waiting for this! Ahaha, Avada Kedavra!”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Hey, if you keep at it with the Cheesy Gordita Crunches, eventually. Eventually.
Laura: It’s true.
Sam: And I would toast with a lemon drop shot, as a nod to Dumbledore’s favorite Muggle candy.
Eric: Oh, I love that.
Andrew: I also like that because a couple weeks ago for my birthday, my friend bought the friend group a round of lemon drop shots, and they were so good. That’s a good crowd-pleasing shot, I think. That’s why Dumbledore likes them.
Eric: They really are good.
Sam: They’re really good.
Andrew: Over on Patreon, Matthew said, “If we were to do something that really exemplifies his legacy as Hogwarts headmaster, we’d have to remove every protective measure and spell.” [laughs] Come on! Like I said with Eric, it all worked out in the end, okay?
Eric: Well, John says, “I would leave one sock and a King chess piece. Forever the chess master.” I love that.
Micah: Carly said, “I’d leave a sherbet lemon on his grave as an ode to his whimsy and love for Muggle sweets.”
Andrew and Laura: Aww.
Eric: It’s a great way to commemorate the last time that the password to the headmaster’s office is going to be guessable.
Laura: Rachel says, “I’d update his Chocolate Frog Card to include his tenure at Hogwarts, his work bringing down Voldemort, and his love of socks.”
Andrew: Amy said, “I would petition the school to have one day set aside as ‘Dumbledore’s Day.’ No classes, and everyone is given the time to just be whimsical and kind to one another.” Cute.
Eric: I love that. And Zach says, “I would lead everyone on a vague and dangerous scavenger hunt with the intention of the winner sacrificing themselves at the end for the great good of the rest of the scavengers.”
Micah: And Carlee, who’s listening live in the Discord, said, “I didn’t get to comment on the post in time, but I’d make up a new knitting pattern and name it after him.”
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: That’s sweet.
Eric: That is really sweet. Very touching. I’m sure he’d love it.
Andrew: Thanks, everybody who participated over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And if you have any feedback about today’s episode, you can send an email or a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. You can also leave a comment on Spotify or YouTube, or DM us on social. We love hearing from you, so please send in that feedback. You can visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and much more.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time, for one last time in its current format – aww – Quizzitch!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: We have a number of questions to give you the answers to here. Here’s one: In this chapter, Harry discovers the locket that he and Dumbledore retrieved is a fake. Question is: In the 1920s, what famous designer was known for wearing faux pearl necklaces as a statement about fashion being accessible to more than just the elite? The answer to that question was Coco Chanel, and 50% of people with the correct answer say they didn’t look it up, and this week’s winners might be one of my favorite batches of names of all time.
Andrew: Whoa.
Eric: Correct answers were submitted by Aberforth’s Magical Goat Inn Adventure; Deborah; Eden the Muggle-born established 2012’s last Quizzitch as a middle schooler…
Micah: Congratulations graduating.
Eric: Congrats. Ginny Otterly; He’s a fake! He’s not Santa!; Hufflin and Pufflin and blowing your house down; I play Fluffy’s Harp; I wanna Kedavr-ya; Ivy; Lynn the Allomancer; Mrs. Ron Weasley; Pat’s Cookies for 2027 physical gift…
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Oh, that came up in the Slug Club.
Andrew: Aw.
Eric: That did. I think I know who that is. The Wylie Warlock; and Voldetort! Okay. And also, here’s the next question: In this chapter, Harry feels the healing power of Fawkes’s song. In a 1984 study done by Roger Ulrich, he examined the healing properties of bird song in real life. Ulrich’s research, done between 1972 and 1981, took place in a hospital in which US state? The options were A) Massachusetts, B) Pennsylvania, C) Texas, D) Washington. The correct answer was my home state, Pennsylvania, and only 30% of people with the correct answer say they didn’t look it up. Those answers were submitted by Aberforth’s Magical Goat Inn Adventure; Connoly! Ryan! Troy! Mullet! Moran! Quigley! Aaaand Lynch!; Eden the Muggle-born established 2012; Ivy; The ghost of Fawkes, singing softly through the corridors of Hogwarts; and the Wylie Warlock once again. And here, for our final chapter discussion, is the last Quizzitch question of this era: With an in-person attendance of only 2,000 people, what funeral took place in the UK during the ’90s, whose television audience is estimated to be 2.5 billion? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form for one last time, for good measure. That’s at MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch.
Andrew: Sam, thank you so much for joining us today, and thank you for your support at Patreon.com/MuggleCast.
Sam: Yeah, thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.
Andrew: Yeah, we’ll see you at a future Slug Club hangout. I’m sure you’re always at the Slug Club hangouts too. All right, well, thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Sam: And I’m Sam.
Andrew: Bye, everyone.
Laura: Bye, y’all.
Eric and Sam: Bye.