Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #754, Severus, Please… Order Fries (HBP Chapter 27, ‘The Lightning Struck Tower’)
Cold Open
Micah: He recognizes the gravity of the moment.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, the gravity is about to recognize him too.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Oof, yikes.
Laura: Aww.
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the TV show, so follow us in your podcast app, and you’ll never miss an episode. New episodes are released every Wednesday. And this week, it’s time for me to remind Universal of my amazing ride idea for them, because we’re discussing Chapter 27 of Half-Blood Prince, “The Lightning-Struck Tower.”
Eric: Why not just keep pushing it? They need to do it.
Andrew: I’m not quitting bringing this up until it happens.
Micah: Well, what year did you first introduce this idea?
Andrew: I don’t know. Was it the last Chapter by Chapter? We’ll have to check the transcripts. Justin? Justin?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Listen, we could just…
Andrew: Justin is never here anymore. It’s so sad.
Laura: Poor Justin.
Andrew: Just as I start bringing him up.
Laura: Yeah, why do you think he stopped showing up? Because he’s tired of you treating him like an assistant.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I think it’s because you kept asking him to do admin stuff during recording.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: While you look that up, listeners, if you love MuggleCast as much as Fenrir Greyback loves visiting Hogwarts… eugh.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: … head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and support us today. And to thank you for your support, you’ll receive bonus episodes of the show, ad-free episodes, you get to hang out with us every month on Zoom, and we’ll give you an on-air shout-out. We can’t do this without you, so thank you so much for your support, and thank you to recent patrons, including DookieShoes, Chris, Kim, Steven, Moesha, Kelly, and Natalia.
Eric: I have an answer for you, Andrew. It was actually MuggleCast… this is far earlier than we ever thought. MuggleCast 177 was the first time.
Andrew: Oh, wow.
Eric: It was in conversation with Mikey B. and Matt and Laura, and it was… I mean, I could read the transcript, but yeah, it’s in 177. You guys were discussing theme park ride ideas, and this is for July 31, 2009, so for 17 years we have thought that this ride should be a thing.
Andrew and Micah: Wow.
Andrew: And they’ve built two more Harry Potter parks since that time…
Eric: [laughs] That’s right!
Andrew: … and they have yet to use this idea.
Eric: Augh.
Andrew: The episode is also titled “The Astronomy Tower of Terror.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh, well, there you go. So we liked it so much.
Andrew: Thanks for looking that up. Well, listeners, we’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app or told a fellow Muggle about our show. And you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear, like a “Choo-choo” shirt or a Security Nightmare hat. Also at MuggleCastMerch.com, you’ll find a link to the overstock store, where you can buy some of our Patreon gear from years past.
Chapter by Chapter: Pensieve
Andrew: All right, time for Chapter by Chapter, and as we all know, we’re discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 27, “The Lightning-Struck Tower.”
Eric: We last discussed this on Episode 419. “Snape Loves Dumbledore,” that one was called, for June 3 of 2019. And here’s the clip.
Dumbledore: What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I’ve collected. It is from MuggleCast Episode 419.
[Sound of memory uncorking]
[Sound of plunging into Pensieve]
Pat: Have you ever wondered, because his heart not being in it, if Draco were to cast a spell, if it would work? I remember back in Book 4, when fake Moody is like, “All of you could say this at me right now, and I would maybe get a nosebleed.”
[Everyone laughs]
Pat: I wonder if his heart not being in it, that if he were to actually say the spell, if it would even do anything.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s a good question.
Laura: That’s a really good point.
Andrew: It would have been an off-green spell, and it would have only gone two feet…
Eric: Confetti would have come out of his wand.
Laura: Maybe it would have knocked Dumbledore over, but not blasted him off the tower. [laughs]
Andrew: Right.
[Sound of exiting Pensieve]
Dumbledore: This memory is everything.
Andrew: I wasn’t expecting to hear my boyfriend.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Laura: So I kind of want to… I picked out two larger themes for us to focus on, first being how Half-Blood Prince is really the Draco character development book in this series. This is really the point where he reaches that precipice of he’s finally getting to do or achieve the thing that he always claimed and boasted with such great bravado about wanting to do, and he gets there and he can’t do it, despite the fact that killing Dumbledore will not only seal his oath of loyalty to Voldemort – which, again, you would think this is something he always wanted – but it’s what’s going to keep he and his family alive, and even then he still can’t do it.
Eric: You never really… I guess you learn a lot about yourself when you have this type of moment, right? And unfortunately, there’s no amount of prep, or no… you really don’t know that much about yourself until you have a moment like this. And I’m sure none of us have ever been in a position where we’ve been told to kill somebody and a lot rides on it. [laughs] But similarly, I think there are moments in all of our lives where you’ve kind of got to… the feet hit the pavement.
Andrew: Yeah, the rubber meets the road.
Laura: Right.
Eric: The rubber meets the road.
Laura: You’ve got to bleep or get off the pot. [laughs]
Andrew: But yeah, his heart is just not in it, and reading it now, it feels like Draco is almost blaming Dumbledore for getting into this situation. He almost wants to say, “This is your fault I’m in this position.”
Eric: And how unique, or unexpected, but also very important and crucial it is that Draco is met with kindness, right? From Dumbledore. That this is Dumbledore’s last hour of his life, and everyone’s on the same page about what’s about to happen, kind of, but rather than being angry, Dumbledore at moments praises him – confuses the hell out of Harry – but is an open shoulder to cry on, almost, for Draco.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Well, and I think Draco resents him for it, right?
Eric: At first. At first, yeah.
Laura: Because ultimately, to the point, Andrew, that you were bringing up earlier, Draco wants… I think he wants to want to do this.
Andrew: Yes.
Laura: And it makes it so much harder for him that Dumbledore is being nice to him, and not only being nice and cordial, and still treating him with respect, but literally saying, “Hey, I know you want to kill me, but actually, I’ll help you.”
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Laura: And I think it just… you see Draco really start to unravel throughout this. This is something actually… we had talked about this on a recent episode, but listening to the audiobooks really drives Draco’s experience home for me as a reader, because of course you can imagine it in your head as you’re reading it, but hearing the voice actor literally struggling to say some of these things, I think, drives it home for sure. And something that stuck out to me thematically about this whole exchange between Draco and Dumbledore is that Draco is seeking Dumbledore’s praise throughout the exchange, like, “See how clever I am that I did this? Nobody thought I could do it on my own, but I did it, and everyone thought that Voldemort was handing me a suicide mission, but I did it. I figured it out, and I got you here now, and I’m going to kill you… except I’m not going to.”
Andrew: [laughs] “Except I can’t!”
Eric: “Except some things went wrong, like I didn’t really want Fenrir here; he kind of showed up on his own,” and all these other little cracks in the facade, where it’s like, if you have to say how smart you are, you’re not that way. If you have to say what a big, strong man you are, you’re not that strong a men. But this is where… I mean, Draco’s upbringing, his entire upbringing… how many times did he hear his dad, Lucius Malfoy, talk about how soft and awful Dumbledore is? And Draco, I think, this whole year, has been really wanting to live up to his father’s disdain for the man, too, and, like, “Oh, I’ve been tasked with killing this guy that my father thinks is absolutely awful for the school,” and as he gets closer to it, and as he bungles it, he kind of realizes that that’s not for him. And rightly, even though Dumbledore is kind to Draco, there are a few moments where he’s like, “Well, if you were going to kill me, you probably already would have done that, and I see that you kind of want some buddies here. Let’s just talk this through, because you’re clearly not ready to do the thing.” And so I feel like it’s important to kind of challenge how Draco… it just completely upends how Draco thought this conversation was going to go, and I think it reveals the underbelly, the undercurrent of Draco really can’t and doesn’t want to do this.
Micah: To me, though, it was never about him killing Dumbledore. Voldemort knew that the likelihood of this happening was so low. This was all about damaging Draco psychologically. Voldemort puts him through this torment all year long, the stress, the pressure, him constantly worrying about what would happen to his family, and I don’t think that even if the moment were to arise that Dumbledore would allow Draco to kill him… if he had ever sensed for a moment that he was about to use the Killing Curse, Dumbledore would have acted with wandless magic.
Laura: Right.
Micah: I don’t think he would have allowed that guilt to be on Draco’s conscience for eternity.
Laura: I agree. And I would add, too, to your point, Micah, I think Voldemort doing this, it’s all about punishing Lucius over what happened last year.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: 100%.
Andrew: Something I like too when Dumbledore and Draco are talking is that Dumbledore does let Draco go off and brag, as we were just talking about, but then the tables do turn, and Dumbledore says, “Yeah, I knew this whole plan.” And then he even offers him an olive branch! Dumbledore says, “We’ll protect your family,” and Draco just has none of it. But it was just a good reminder of how masterful of a wizard Dumbledore is, to just sit there and let Draco go off, and then be like, “You know what, I actually knew all this, and I’m the one in control here; you are not. And also, you’re not going to kill me, bitch.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Well, there were a few things, right, that Dumbledore didn’t know or didn’t spot sooner. The Rosmerta one is big for me, that Madam Rosmerta… because Dumbledore has actually actively interacted with Rosmerta throughout the whole year, and especially when they were going to Hogsmeade to go off to the cave, and now back. It really wasn’t until this conversation with Draco where it’s confirmed that Draco put Madam Rosmerta under the Imperius Curse. Dumbledore didn’t spot it, and that, to me, shows that he’s not infallible. Dumbledore is great in this chapter, but there were some moments where it’s still questionable how dangerous Dumbledore is. And when he offers to protect Draco – he’s like, “We can hide you and your family more completely than anyone” – I almost wanted somebody on that tower to be like, “Really? Like you hid Lily and James?” Because his track record is really not perfect. So I appreciate the offer here, but it’s interesting because we already know that no side is perfect, and it’s possible that if Draco had taken Dumbledore up on this and Dumbledore did not die in this chapter, that the Malfoys… something could have gone wrong, I guess, with the Malfoys, because Dumbledore isn’t perfect.
Laura: Yeah, for sure. And to that point, I agree that Dumbledore obviously has known about Draco’s mission at a high level, but clearly the Rosmerta example highlights for us that he didn’t have a lot of on-the-ground knowledge of what was going on, and that’s partly because Snape couldn’t get Draco to open up about any of it.
Eric: Yeah, true.
Laura: But I wanted to ask about the Vanishing Cabinet. If Dumbledore…
Eric: What about it?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, if Dumbledore figured out that the necklace and the poisoned mead were part of Draco’s plan, it does feel like a miss to me that he didn’t have any interest in what Harry was trying to bring to him about Draco celebrating in the Room of Requirement. I feel like this is an area where Dumbledore misses, right? Because he’s so hyper-focused on making sure that Harry only knows what Harry needs to know…
Eric: Right.
Laura: … that he misses critical information that actually ends up endangering the students of his school, which is what he says he’ll never do, right?
Eric: Yeah, he takes umbrage with Harry, where he’s going, “Don’t for a minute suggest I don’t take the security of the students very seriously, Harry.”
Andrew: Right, yeah.
Eric: But then these students are going around getting poisoned and nearly killed!
Andrew: And Dumbledore admits that it’d be impossible to get Death Eaters into the school, so he thought.
Eric: So he thought.
Andrew: So yeah, it’s not even that Dumbledore knew and was letting it happen; he truly did not know that this was happening, so it seems.
Eric and Laura: Right.
Eric: Yeah, but listening to Harry would have probably helped. Following the clues would have helped. I also think that the entire wizarding world, or at least the administration at Hogwarts, really needs to do better follow-up inspections or investigations after any incident, because if you think about it, going way back to Micah’s mug of Sirius Black, Sirius Black getting arrested for a crime that he really didn’t do – he ended up not being the Potters’ Secret Keeper at the end – and so a little bit of follow-up conversation probably would have prevented him from rotting away in Azkaban for 12 years. A lot closer to the events of this chapter, if they had followed up on Montague getting caught in the Vanishing Cabinet last year, whether Snape did an investigation, I think Snape would have been able to identify the danger of having that Vanishing Cabinet even in partial working order. The fact that that is an unchecked passage and can maybe be mended, that should have been flagged either by Snape, the Head of House, whose student was disappeared in that thing for months, or by Dumbledore, the Headmaster, who’s overseeing, and should have more papers on his desk about “What happened with that one student who was gone for a few months, because I have to answer to their parents.” Apparently, no investigation was done, and so the Vanishing Cabinet went right under Dumbledore’s twice broken nose.
Micah: Yeah, I don’t see a situation where Dumbledore would have knowingly allowed Death Eaters into Hogwarts.
Laura: Of course.
Micah: And so if he was in fact aware of the Vanishing Cabinet, I do believe that he would have done something about it. Now, that being said, I don’t think he did his due diligence throughout the course of the year, and he should have paid much closer attention to where Draco was disappearing to, because it was common knowledge at this point, right?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And Harry brought it up directly to him, so that’s really where I feel like Dumbledore could have done a better job. But if we need evidence that he didn’t know about this, just look at the conversation between him and Fenrir Greyback at the end of this chapter. There is no Death Eater, I think, that he would like less to be inside of Hogwarts than Fenrir Greyback.
Laura: Right.
Micah: The others are probably easily manageable, but Fenrir has a thirst for children’s blood, which is disgusting. [laughs]
Eric: He’s a loose cannon. One thing I had a question about regarding this chapter in general… [laughs] And we always ask this question. Do we remember, back to when we were first reading it, whether we were worried for Dumbledore or worried for Draco? Dumbledore says to Draco, “I’m more helpless than you ever could have dreamed of finding me,” and he’s in a really compromising position. So did we get the sense that this was it?
Laura: I remember feeling like Dumbledore was probably going to die when we left for the cave. When we departed Hogwarts to go to the cave, I was like, “Okay, he’s already not doing well, and whatever is coming here is probably going to take it out of him.” And I think just from a narrative perspective, it made sense.
Andrew: From a storytelling perspective, there’s always these types of scenes. I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago: Harry and Dumbledore getting one last journey together. That alone on its face is a sign that something is about to go very wrong or right for Dumbledore, right? In that it’s all part of the plan. But yeah, I think as a reader reading this chapter in particular, when Dumbledore is urgently needing Snape, and the Dark Mark is in the sky, and Albus instructs Harry to talk to no one else but Snape, things were getting really real.
Micah: I agree. I don’t think any of us felt like Dumbledore was going to make it through all seven books, so there had to be a moment, and this one seemed the most likely. Though I do remember feeling very much that Dumbledore was in control the entire time…
Andrew: Yes.
Micah: … especially when you look at the fact that he immobilizes Harry.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: And that in and of itself tells me that he had enough magic to do whatever he wanted to do in that moment…
Eric: That’s a great point.
Micah: … and those four Death Eaters that were on the Astronomy Tower with him were not much of a threat, and we’ll get to it, but that’s what always made me think that there was more to this than at the eye.
Laura: Yeah, I agree. I like the idea that Dumbledore was only in danger because he wanted himself to be in danger, essentially. Ever the chess master.
Micah: Yeah, and I forget the exact line, but he says as much to Draco when Draco says something about being at his mercy, and he’s like, “No, dear boy, basically you’re at my mercy here.”
Laura: Yeah. And he’s so right, because he’s literally saving Draco’s soul in this moment; I mean, that is the end goal here. Before we move on, Micah, I know you put some notes in here about the symbolism of the lightning-struck tower. Did you want to cover that for us?
Micah: Sure, and I know we did talk about the Tarot card of the lightning-struck tower, but there is a lot of symbolism, right, surrounding the lightning-struck tower. In particular, it suggests that something tall, noble, and powerful is being suddenly destroyed by forces beyond its control, and I think that this tower reflects Dumbledore himself. He’s elevated above everybody else; he’s the symbol of wisdom and protection that is struck down in a single catastrophic moment. And there’s also a tie to Harry’s scar, because Harry’s scar is in the shape of a lightning bolt, and this is really about the final collapse of Harry’s protected school life. Shit gets real after this, and once Dumbledore falls, Hogwarts stops being… I’ll put “a safe place” in quotation marks…
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Micah: … because it’s not really been safe for the last five and a half years.
Laura: But it’s about to get real bad.
Micah: Yeah, I mean, it becomes part of the war, right? We see that as the rest of this book plays itself out, and then, of course, in Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Yeah, two of the Death Eaters here on this tower are going to be teachers next year. Great.
[Ad break]
Laura: Well, moving on with Draco, I just found this whole exchange so interesting because the things that Draco chooses to highlight to Dumbledore in this exchange, I don’t feel like it’s just happenstance; I think that this all really reflects the way that Draco truly feels. And something I thought was interesting was how he told Dumbledore about the inspiration that he got for having Rosmerta use coins to communicate with him, and he specifically calls out that he got the idea from Dumbledore’s Army and how they communicated with coins last year in Order of the Phoenix. However, we know from Hermione, she got that idea from the Death Eaters and their tattoos.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: We also know at this point Draco has been inducted, so he knows what the tattoos are, he knows how they function, and yet he chooses to say that his inspiration for this method of communication came from people that he allegedly hates.
Andrew: So two things here: It’s almost like foreshadowing that he is going to end up on the good side. His heart is in the good side.
Eric: Oh, God.
Andrew: But on the other hand, I do think if I’m playing devil’s advocate here, he actually wanted to say, “Guess what? I brought these Death Eaters in because of Hermione. It’s her fault.”
Laura: Kind of, yeah.
Andrew: That’s almost the implication.
Eric: Right. Yeah, because the Dumbledore’s Army coins or whatever were still a… I want to say the problem with the tattoos is they’re a one-way form of communication. The coins are a little bit different, because couldn’t…? She set the meeting time… I mean, it’s still a one-way form of communication, but I think that Draco very most recently was part of the Inquisitorial Squad, and so he was probably painstakingly searching for how Dumbledore’s Army was coordinating, and when he eventually found it, when they eventually all got found out, that left a lasting impression on him, and so he thinks of the more recent use, I guess, of that… was it a Protean Charm? But also what I like about it is it shows that he was probably as obsessed with figuring out how Dumbledore’s Army worked the previous year as Harry was with figuring out what he was up to this year, possibly.
Laura: No, totally. Draco was absolutely obsessed with Harry in Order of the Phoenix, and we get to see, I mean, that metaphorical coin flipped, if you will, here.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: So it is really interesting to see how these two are mirrors of each other between these two books. But again…
Eric: They should just kiss already.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: And trust me, there are many, many fanfictions where they do. But it is just interesting to me that for someone who has espoused these particular ideologies over the last several books, that he continues to lean on the expertise of people that he thinks are lesser than him because he can’t help but observe that they still have good ideas that he wants to use. He does the same thing when talking about Hermione a little later; he says that he overheard Hermione talking to Harry and Ron in the library about how Filch wouldn’t be able to recognize poisons, and that’s good enough for Draco to work out his plan for how he’s going to get the poisoned mead to Hogwarts, right? So does he think that she’s got dirty blood and that he’s better than her because of the way he was raised? Yes, but at the same time, he’s perfectly willing to accept her word here in order to put together this plan that is a life or death plan for him, so I just find that really, really interesting.
Micah: It’s all another reminder of that line from the first chapter of this book, that “The other side can do magic too.”
Laura: Yep.
Micah: And I think in particular with the communication that he has with Rosmerta, it’s almost a means of perverting or tainting the DA communication.
Laura: Absolutely.
Micah: And as you were alluding to as well, Laura, the way that he more or less puts this on Hermione. Again, it’s putting the blame somewhere else. “Well, I just overheard the fact that Filch wouldn’t check potions. Well, thanks, Hermione.” Yeah, I think it’s a way of almost putting a blemish on what was used last year for something that was very good.
Laura: Well, in this exchange, of course, we know Draco finally cracks and just proclaims that he has no other options, because Dumbledore starts trying to talk to him about his options, and Draco is like, “What the hell are you talking about, man? I don’t have any other options. I have to do this, or else…”
Andrew: “Either I die or you die.”
Laura: Yeah, exactly.
Andrew: “Either both of us die or you just die,” are basically the options.
Laura: Exactly. But what I also found interesting here is Dumbledore says Voldemort’s name and Malfoy winces when he says the name; he can’t even bear to hear it. So I wanted to ask this group, because I don’t know that… there’s not an official point that we know of in the text for us to know this, but when do we think that Draco first began having doubts about this whole pipeline to Death Eater situation that he has found himself on?
Andrew: Doubts that he can kill Dumbledore?
Laura: Just doubts about wanting to be part of this.
Eric: I think in the beginning he probably wanted to avenge his dad’s imprisonment. These were the people that he was raised to hate, so he had some hate. I bet there was probably a day or two where he thought, “Oh, this is an easy job; this is going to be great,” and then he realized, “No, actually.”
Micah: I’m going to go with day one. I think that there’s perhaps, I agree, some initial feeling of being the big man on campus, right? “I’ve been tasked with this really big responsibility to off Dumbledore.” But going back to what I said earlier, Voldemort’s task is really about punishment. It’s not about honor in any way; he’s basically said, “Fix your family’s mistake or else.”
Eric: Yeah! And it was apparent even to Narcissa and to Snape in Spinner’s End at the beginning of the year that this task was setting Draco up to fail. In fact, that alone is what made Draco’s mom come seek Snape in the first place. This is very clearly a suicide mission. So if Draco himself couldn’t see that on day one, he at least did very shortly after that this is actually a really tall task. This is Dumbledore we’re talking about here. An interesting point I want to bring up from our Discord regarding just the overall conversation between Dumbledore and Draco is a really, really excellent point from Becky, who says, “I feel like Dumbledore is pointing out the flaws in what Draco thinks he values most (being the best, achievement, upholding pure-blood supremacy), and Dumbledore is helping him recognize what’s really most important to him underneath all that (such as loyalty to and protection for his family).” I really like this point, because what Dumbledore is offering is what Draco is not asking for.
Laura: Yeah. But I’m sure it seems a little tempting, and we’re going to talk about that a little bit later in the discussion. But to bring this part of the discussion to a close, just looking at Draco’s journey here and his realization that he’s flown a little too close to the sun, as it were, do we think, if we’re thinking about where Draco is at this point… obviously, we know we get more character development next book. We obviously know there’s Cursed Child, where we actually see Draco teaming up with the trio, if you accept that as canon. But at this point, Draco ultimately can’t bring himself to kill Dumbledore. It’s very clear from the flimsy attempts that he’s made earlier in the book that he wants to be able to… he wants Dumbledore to die, but it’s like he doesn’t have the stomach to actually be the one who does it or be present when it happens. So do we think that if we remove Draco from this mission, he would still be gung-ho, pro-Dumbledore death, just as long as it’s a newspaper headline he gets to read?
Andrew: Certainly outwardly.
Eric: Yeah, and without this, without the catalyst, without it being him who’s tasked with this mission, I bet that he wouldn’t even have the self-awareness to realize that this isn’t in him. It’s the fact that he’s tasked with this and can’t do it that makes Draco realize that he doesn’t actually want what he thought he wants. But if he’s not tasked with this, and Dumbledore just dies, Draco probably looks at that headline in the Daily Prophet and goes, “Good.”
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: “Maybe Hogwarts will improve.” And I think he means it.
Andrew: He might mean it now, but as he gets older, he’ll probably be like, “Oh, wait, no. He shouldn’t have died.” What do you think, Micah?
Micah: Well, it makes me think about Dumbledore’s plea to him, which we talked a little bit about earlier, about protecting him and Narcissa and Lucius. And I think this would be appealing to Draco under normal circumstances, but we’ll never know, because there was a bit of an interruption, right? Just as Dumbledore is putting this all on the table for him, the Death Eaters break through. And I think one of the most devastating details is that Dumbledore’s last great act is trying to save Draco, not himself, right?
Andrew: Aww. And this is why we love him!
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Where are my glasses? [laughs]
Eric: Aw, man.
Micah: It’s true, though, if you think about it, because again, Harry is immobilized, Dumbledore is using magic in this moment, so even without his wand, Dumbledore is clearly capable of protecting Harry, and I am sure protecting himself. So these Death Eaters would have been no contest for Dumbledore if he really wanted to step in and do something here, but he recognizes the gravity of the moment.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, the gravity is about to recognize him too.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Oof, yikes.
Laura: Aww. I love that.
Eric: But I mean, how easy would it be – to your point, Micah – of just… okay, this is the books; it’s not the movies. Death Eaters can’t fly. No one can fly. It would be very easy for Dumbledore to just push them all off the tower with force, you know? They wouldn’t be able to fix it. And in immobilizing Harry, not only does Dumbledore demonstrate that he has magic, which is what you’re pointing out – he has command of his faculties and stuff – but he’s refusing the help of an ally who would absolutely fight to the death for him. Harry would absolutely do everything in Harry’s power to not let this happen, and so Dumbledore is clearly in control of everything, because otherwise, if he wasn’t, in fact, prepared to die in this moment, he would be seeking all the help he could get. He would call up Fawkes, however that works. He would allow Harry to fight. But no, this is how this has to happen, ever the chess grand master that he is.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: The olive branch that he does offer Draco to protect his family is so heartbreaking to read, but I would have loved to have seen that plan go into place. I would have loved to have seen how Dumbledore would have protected the Malfoys. Yeah, that is something I wish we got to see play out, but oh well.
Laura: Yeah. Well, to that point – and we can jump a little bit ahead, because this was something that I wanted to ask about – basically, the second part of this discussion is titled “All according to plan?”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Is this exactly how Dumbledore intended for this whole series of events to play out? And one of the questions I have is what if Draco had taken Dumbledore up on his offer for protection? How could Dumbledore have protected Draco and put he and his family into hiding without one, exposing Snape to Voldemort, and two, getting Snape killed because of the Unbreakable Vow that he had made?
Eric: Yeah, how do you prevent that?
Laura: Yeah, I think he still has to die. I think in order for all of this to work, Dumbledore still has to die one way or another.
Eric: Yeah, and there’s the curse, too, from destroying the Horcrux, the ring, that was limited to his arm, but presumably is getting worse and growing, and will eventually claim Dumbledore’s life.
Micah: He just needs to go to Voldemort. Voldemort gives out extra hands like nobody’s business.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Oh, that’s true.
Laura: That’s true. “Here’s a hand, and let me show you how to make a backup of your soul. You’ll be fine.” But I did want to ask, do we think Dumbledore intended for such a large audience to witness his death? I mean, certainly Snape and Draco needed to be there, but do we think Dumbledore wanted Harry and three other Death Eaters to be present?
Andrew: I don’t think so, because this whole “Death Eaters came into the school” thing caught him off guard.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: So I think… I hate to say he wanted Harry to be there, because that’s a traumatic thing to witness, but it seemed like it was a likely possibility, given they were just together, and Harry has been helping Dumbledore get back to the school and all that. But no, not the Death Eaters, certainly. I mean, that’s kind of humiliating, I think, to give the Death Eaters the pleasure of watching Dumbledore die. That ain’t good.
Eric: I agree, it’s not good. I also agree, probably didn’t plan for it, but I’ve got to say, the amount of people on this tower right now is almost exactly right, because you need somebody that’s not Snape or Draco to report to Voldemort what happened between Snape and Draco and Dumbledore, right? So the fact that the Carrows and Fenrir witness Snape stepping up and killing Dumbledore really sets up everything Snape has to do with the rest of the book series.
Micah: And Yaxley. There’s a fourth Death Eater there, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, that’s right.
Eric: Oh, yeah. I’m sorry, that was blatant Yaxley erasure.
Micah: He’s not named, but I think Harry recognizes him in Deathly Hallows as having been on the tower.
Eric: I appreciate that.
Laura: Well, and they substitute him out with Bellatrix in the movie, right? Which, actually, that is one book-to-screen change that I’m supportive of. I think having Bellatrix there makes a lot of sense.
Eric: Yeah, because she seems… and she was at Spinner’s End. They didn’t send Yaxley to Spinner’s End.
Laura: Right, he didn’t witness the Unbreakable Vow. Yeah, exactly. [laughs]
Micah: But I do think there is value in Death Eaters being there, because it further legitimizes Snape’s allegiance, and you have four Death Eaters who can vouch for the fact that Snape did, in fact, kill Dumbledore, and has a strong allegiance to Voldemort. In terms of Harry, though, for Harry, it’s all about protection, because I mean, it could’ve got real bad for him, right? If Death Eaters had not only found Dumbledore in a weakened state, but found Harry right there, ripe for the taking, I think that it would have been a big problem for Harry.
Laura: Yeah, that’s why I tend to lean towards the idea that maybe Dumbledore didn’t intend for Harry to be there to witness this. I do like how it ultimately works out by more strongly legitimizing Snape with the Death Eaters, because we see that his fellow Death Eaters don’t totally trust him, especially at the start of this book with Bellatrix.
Micah: But they’re fearful of him, right? There was that passage in the book that when he comes onto the Astronomy Tower, all the other Death Eaters that are there basically almost take a step back, so some of them must be somewhat fearful of him.
Laura: Oh, I think so. But I think part of it, too, is there are rumors about him, and I think this is the point where Snape finally gets the buy-in from his fellow Death Eaters of “Okay, no, he really is on our side, and he was playing Dumbledore, not us.” One last “What if?”: What if Dumbledore had faked his death and gone underground earlier in the book?
Micah: The challenge with this, in my mind… there’s a couple different pieces of it, right? Dumbledore has been preparing Harry to lead throughout this entire book. He’s been giving him glimpses into Voldemort’s past; he’s been providing him knowledge about Horcruxes. So Harry is being set up for Deathly Hallows. There’s also the allegiance of the Elder Wand, right?
Laura: Oh, yeah. Great point.
Micah: And that changing hands, and now Draco is the master of the Elder Wand. And the last part of it, which we actually talked a little bit about just before, is I think Snape’s loyalty to Voldemort can be called into question a lot more easily if he’s not the one who murders Dumbledore.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: So it kind of messes with everything, but it would have been cool if he was secretly alive this whole time.
Laura: I’m really glad you brought up the Elder Wand, because I have to think that particular piece was not part of Dumbledore’s plan.
Micah: No, there’s no way.
Laura: I don’t think he intended… yeah, maybe he intended for Snape to become the owner of the Elder Wand. I don’t know, but definitely Draco was not part of the plan. But it ends up working out. It all works out.
Andrew: Yeah, and I mean, I think… I imagine that Voldemort would have sought proof of Dumbledore’s death, and how would that go? What proof would Dumbledore offer? Dumbledore is a smart guy; I guess he could come up with something, but I’d be curious to know. A hand. Like you said, Micah, Voldemort likes handing out hands, so maybe he would like to collect a hand.
Micah: Maybe.
Andrew: Or his wand. I don’t know.
Laura: Yeah, the blackened one from wearing the Resurrection Stone.
Andrew: [laughs] “Ew, I don’t want this.”
Laura: Yeah, but that would be proof.
Andrew: It would be.
Laura: He was definitely becoming real decrepit.
Odds & Ends
Laura: Well, great discussion, y’all. We’re going to get into some odds and ends here quickly.
Andrew: Yeah, well, so like we said at the top of the show, I just want to remind Universal, if you’re listening…
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: … I’m still waiting for the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Dumbledore’s Magical Lightning-Struck Tower of Terror Adventure at Universal’s Epic Universe.
Micah: Oof.
Andrew: In which you free fall from a tower like you’re doing it for the greater good. Let’s make it happen. In park number four!
Eric: It’s time.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: In the year 2027, we are ready for this.
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “It’s time.”
Micah: It’s time. Well, I also wanted to include a couple of Astronomy Tower references throughout the series, and there’s probably some that are missing here, but these are the ones that came to mind. And shout-out to Meg for the last one, which we’ll get to in just a second. I can read the first one, but if others want to jump in and read the other two, that would be great.
Andrew: Sure.
Micah: So the first one is from Prisoner of Azkaban. After Harry falls from his broom during a Quidditch match against Hufflepuff, he wakes up in the hospital wing. When Ron mentions that Harry looks peaky, Fred comments on the 50 foot fall, to which George replies, “Yeah, c’mon on, Ron. We’ll walk you off the Astronomy Tower and see how you come out looking.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: In Half-Blood Prince, Draco says, “I might not even be back at Hogwarts next year. I might not even be here. I think I’d rather pitch myself off the Astronomy Tower if I thought I had to continue here for another two years.” Whoa!
Eric: I can’t believe Draco says that. Wow. And then also in this book, Harry tells Dobby, “‘I want you to tail Draco Malfoy […] I want to know where he’s going, who he’s meeting, and what he’s doing. I want you to follow him around the clock.’ ‘Yes, Harry Potter!’ said Dobby at once, his great eyes shining with excitement. ‘And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the topmost tower, Harry Potter!'”
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Whoa.
Eric: There’s some obsession about specifically the topmost tower and the Astronomy Tower.
Laura: It’s kind of funny that Harry was so surprised Dobby wasn’t sleeping, when he said, “I want you to follow him around the clock.” That’s a pretty straightforward…
Eric: Yeah, what does Harry think that means?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, that’s pretty straightforward. That means don’t sleep, Harry Potter.
Laura: Right.
Lynx Line
Laura: All right, well, now we’re going to get into our Lynx Line. We do this weekly question over on Patreon. You can sign up to participate as well; Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And this week’s question is: You’re Dumbledore in the afterlife. When Snape gets there a year from now, what’s the first thing you say to him? So we’re going to go through host answers first, and then we’ll get to Patreon answers.
Andrew: I love this question. “You foolish vampire, if you had let me complete my sentence, I was going to say, ‘Severus, please order me a double cheeseburger WITHOUT fries!'”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: “Lily is here… but so is her husband. Sorry, buddy.”
Micah: Ooh.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: “For the record, if you’re here to complain about the plan, please take a number. Sirius Black has been waiting for months.”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: And I said, “Wow, okay. I said kill me, not blast my corpse off a tower. Rude.”
Andrew: [laughs] All right, over on Patreon, Susan said, “Petty Dumbledore: ‘I believe someone would like a word,’ and moves aside for Lily.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Zachary makes a Potter Puppet Pals reference. “Albus says, ‘Harry will be joining us soon,’ and then Snape says, ‘That little [insert the elder swear].'”
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Carly said, “You did it, you son of a bitch. You really did it!”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Perfect.
Laura: Ben says,
“Severus? Ah, nuts, this whole plan is a total dumpster fire. First you were supposed to tell Harry to kill himself and the Horcrux. Once Harry died, Moody was supposed to tell Neville that since you killed me, you are the master of the Elder Wand, so Neville should kill you and use the Elder Wand to kill Voldemort. Neville is actually the boy in the prophecy! When Moody showed up here before you or Harry, I knew this whole thing was screwed. So now who is the master of the Elder Wand? VOLDEMORT?!? Well, you at least told Harry he has to die? You just left him memories? Okay, I have one backup plan, but it depends on Lavender Brown. Is she alive?”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I also love how Dumbledore would say, “Ah, nuts.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Not for the first time.
Andrew: Shannon said, “Good news! The shampoo aisle here is extensive.” [laughs]
Eric: It would be in heaven. And Matthew says, “You killed me? You actually killed me? I WAS JOKING.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Aww. Thanks, everybody, who participated. And we should acknowledge it; Dumbledore is dead. That’s sad. It’s sad.
Laura: DumbleDead.
Eric: DumbledoreIsNotDead.com.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Oh, yeah. A real website. Does that still exist? We looked it up.
Eric: Only on the Wayback Machine.
Andrew: Aw, that’s sad. Oh, no, it’s still up!
Eric: Who’s still paying for that?
Micah: Didn’t you redirect it to Andy’s site?
Andrew: Oh, I bought DumbledoreIsNotGay.com, I think, didn’t I?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Which is kind of hateful.
Eric: I love the era of “Let’s just get a domain name and point it to Harry Potter Fan Zone or to the MuggleCast page.”
Andrew: That’s gay erasure. That’s not good. Listeners, if you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. You can also reach out via the YouTube comments below. That’s what the YouTubers do, right? The Spotify comments; I think that might be below.
Eric: And then you do the thing with the overlays where you’re like, “Like and subscribe!”
Andrew: “Like and subscribe today!”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: We probably should do one of those.
Eric: Yeah, with that. We’re going to use that footage.
Andrew: [laughs] You can also slide into our DMs. And next week we’ll discuss Chapter 28 of Half-Blood Prince, “Flight of the Prince.” Visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch. It’s back!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: Yeah, keep your finger on that music button, Andrew, because we’ve got two segments, two Quizzitch segments. The earlier question that we asked was for “The Seer Overheard.” What is the more common name of the ailment known as pertussis? The answer is whooping cough, and this is a reference because Draco was making a “Whoop-whoop” sound in the Room of Requirement. 80% of people with the correct answer who submitted to Quizzitch say they didn’t look it up, so that’s a more commonly known fact. And the correct answers were submitted by A haunting rendition of “His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad”; A Healthy Breeze; Cheeseshark, who replies, “I’m a nurse!”; Draco’s apple that was infested with whooping cough; Duddy’s Overworked Therapist; Eden the Muggle is back, established 2012, “Oh, how ironic, I’m sick right now.” Somebody else who replied, “Hospitalized for it when I was 2.” That’s terrifying. I can’t think of anything clever; I Play Fluffy’s Harp; Liam the youngling; Patronus Seeker; Protect Your Wand; Rowena Griffinclaw; SnufflesSupremacy; Teacher of Muggles; The 5-legged creature in the Room of Requirement; The Rogue Bludger; Voldetort; and somebody whose very fitting reference to Game of Thrones is “You know nothing, Gilroy Lockhart.” Here is the second Quizzitch question!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: All right, with a span of over 426 mapped miles made of limestone, where is the world’s longest known cave system? And this was in reference to the chapter, “The Cave.” The correct answer is Mammoth Caves. It’s actually a state park in Kentucky of the United States. 30% of people say they didn’t look it up who got the correct answer, and fewer submissions, but they were correctly submitted by Duddy’s Overworked Therapist is back; Eden the Muggle established 2012; A Healthy Breeze; Madelyn the Muggle established 2014… I love that people are putting their established dates as their usernames now. Voldemort’s womb… that was a thing we discussed.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Finty; Patronus Seeker; I Play Fluffy’s Harp; Voldetort; Teacher of Muggles; and somebody who identifies as The Rogue Bludger. Congrats to all of our winners. And here is this upcoming Quizzitch question: In regards to the “Lightning Struck-Tower” chapter, what is the fastest speed that a human has ever fallen in free fall? This is a multiple choice question. Is it A) 120 miles per hour, B) 300 miles per hour, C) 550 miles per hour, or D) over 800 miles per hour? In free fall.
Andrew: Wow.
Eric: And by the way, they survived this, whatever the answer is.
Andrew: No way!
Eric: Yep, and it’s on video. Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website. It’s got everything good that Andrew was mentioning, and check that out. MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch. Thanks for playing, everyone.
Andrew: And thank you for listening to this week’s episode. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: See you next time.
Laura and Micah: Bye.