INTRO MUSIC : “Stepping Out” by The Fall
Philip Blumel: Stepping out with U.S. Term Limits. Hi. This is Philip Blumel. Welcome to No Uncertain Terms, the official podcast of the Term Limits Movement for the week of July 22, 2019.
Stacey Selleck: Your sanctuary from partisan politics.
Philip Blumel: The U.S. Term Limits team was on the road over the weekend with Nick Tomboulides and I at the Freedom Fest Conference in Las Vegas and Stacey Selleck and Scott Tillman at the Young Democrats of America National Convention in Indianapolis, Indiana. Let’s go to location and get the full story.
Philip Blumel: All right, Nick and I are here right in the exhibit hall of Freedom Fest 2019. We’re actually right in front of our U.S. Term Limits booth.
Nick Tomboulides: I’m staring at a sign that says Commies Aren’t Cool and another one that says Live Free, so you can get some idea what this conference is all about. It’s a Libertarian-based conference where people come to celebrate free markets and limited government.
Philip Blumel: Oh yeah, here’s one, Big Government Sucks.
Nick Tomboulides: Of course, we are the sanctuary from partisan politics in the sense that we like to bring people of all ideologies together. Part of that means going to places where people of different ideologies dwell and talking to them about Term Limits. So, we go to Republican conferences. We go to Democratic conferences. Now we’re at a conference of Libertarians.
Philip Blumel: The reaction we get from the people who are attending this conference as they come by our booth and talk to us about Term Limits is pretty much the same as we get at any other type of convention, whether Republican or Democrat or this Libertarian one.
Nick Tomboulides: That’s amazing.
Philip Blumel: Everyone is for this issue.
Nick Tomboulides: You could walk around this room. They are probably a hundred different groups here and a lot of them are talking about increasing liberty, limiting government and all that. You would know from being in 95% of the room that this is a Libertarian conference, but if you just spent your time with the U.S. Term Limits booth you wouldn’t know what people thought …
Philip Blumel: No.
Nick Tomboulides: … on the partisan issues.
Philip Blumel: No. No.
Nick Tomboulides: It sounds just like a Democratic conference. It sounds just like a Republican conference.
Philip Blumel: We’ve got some notable people come up to the booth today.
Nick Tomboulides: Herman Cain.
Philip Blumel: Herman Cain.
Nick Tomboulides: I’m sure our listeners probably remember Herman Cain. He ran for President in 2012. Herman re-enacted a famous moment from a presidential debate when he was asked whether it’s important for someone to have a lot of experience in government, a lot of experience in Congress. He said, “Well, we’ve got a Congress that’s the more experienced of all time. How’s that working out for you?”
Philip Blumel: Very good. Perfect.
Nick Tomboulides: He’s going to do, he told me, an endorsement of U.S. Term Limits and we’ll be able to put that on our website.
Philip Blumel: Excellent.
Philip Blumel: Arkansas politicians have waged war with the citizens over Term Limits since Arkansas voted to past Term Limits on their legislature and their Congressional delegation back in 1992. It was the Arkansas Term Limits law, in fact, that led to the 1995 U.S. Supreme Court split decision, U.S. Term Limits vs. Thornton, that invalidated Congressional Term Limits in 23 states. That case left state-level Term Limits in place. Tom Steele is the Chairman of the Arkansas Term Limits Ballot Question Committee and ably recounted the sordid history of Arkansas Term Limits in Not a Lifetime Job: Bring Back Stricter Term Limits, an op-ed that appeared in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette on June 24th.
Stacey Selleck: A 1992 citizen-referred Constitutional Amendment established legislative Term Limits in Arkansas for the first time. Winning in 70 of the state’s 75 counties, the proposed Constitutional Amendment passed with 60% of the vote. It limited state representatives to three two-year terms and state Senators to two four-year terms. Legislators could serve full terms in each house. It did not count the two-year Senate terms caused by reapportionment, so some Senators could serve 10 years, and a few 12 years.
Stacey Selleck: In 2004, legislators ignored the will of the people and placed a proposed Constitutional Amendment on the ballot which extended Term Limits for both representatives and Senators to 12 years, not counting two-year Senate terms caused by reapportionment. Despite a well-financed promotional campaign funded by the Arkansas Farm Bureau, and others, this proposal suffered a historic defeat in the 2004 general election when 70% of the voters said “no” to the legislature. Over 700,000 voters said “no.” All 75 Arkansas counties said “no.”
Stacey Selleck: In 2014, still chaffing under the 1992 Term Limits, legislators placed Issue 3, the so-called “Arkansas Elected Officials Ethics Transparency and Financial Reform Amendment,” commonly referred to as the Ethics Amendment. Using a ballot title that is now widely considered a brazen fraud perpetrated on the people by legislators, voters were essentially tricked into gutting the same Term Limits they had strongly supported in 2004. According to Ballotpedia, only seven of the 135 members of the Arkansas legislature voted against referring this Trojan horse to the voters. Despite a public awareness campaign by the volunteers of Arkansas Term Limits that featured a large wooden Trojan horse at public events across the states, voters were largely unaware that the Ethics Amendment would gut Term Limits for legislators. The carefully crafted, deceptive ballot title did its job. Voters thought they were voting for ethics reform for politicians. Issue 3 narrowly passed in November 2014, with 52% of the vote. It changed Term Limits for state representatives from six years to 16. State Senators can now serve up to 22 years.
Stacey Selleck: Of the states with legislative Term Limits Arkansas sits alone at the top in terms of how many consecutive years a Senator or representative can serve in the same office. Written by politicians for politicians, Arkansas now has the weakest Term Limits in the Nation. After Issue 3 passed hundreds of outraged citizens from across Arkansas formed Arkansas Term Limits, a Ballot Question Committee, BQC, registered with the Arkansas Ethics Commission to sponsor a Term Limit Amendment that would restore the 1992 terms. This effort collected over 50,000 voter signatures but fell short of the 84,000 plus needed to qualify for the 2016 ballot.
Stacey Selleck: In 2018, Arkansas Term Limits again sponsored a citizen’s initiative designed to restore the six- and eight-year limits approved by Arkansas voters in 1992. Unlike the 1992 Amendment, it counted two-year Senate terms caused by reapportionment and set a 10-year cap on total service in the legislature. Over 120,000 voter signatures were collected, far more than the 84,859 needed to qualify for the 2018 ballot. The Arkansas Secretary of State verified 93,998 signatures and certified the measure for the 2018 ballot. Randy Zook, President and CEO of the Arkansas State Chamber of Commerce, funded by Arkansas Farm Bureau, Nabholtz Construction, the State Chamber, and others challenged the initiative petition.
Stacey Selleck: The cumulative administrative stumbling blocks created by the legislature, with an assist from the Arkansas Supreme Court, were successful in derailing the initiative. In a narrow 4:3 ruling the court ruled for Zook, striking 9,926 voter signatures and disqualifying the Arkansas Term Limits Amendment from the ballot. The signatures of 9,447 registered voters were disqualified due to administrative hurdles enacted by the legislature.
Stacey Selleck: Even though state Senators can now serve up to 22 years, the politician’s idea of good Term Limits, it apparently isn’t enough for Senator Alan Clark. Clark sponsored, and the legislature passed, SJR15, a new Term Limits proposal that removes lifetime limits on how long a legislator may serve. It will be on the 2020 statewide general election ballot. Under the proposal legislators first elected after 2020 can serve as many 12-year stints as they like interrupted by four-year breaks. Current legislators get up to 22 years before they take their first four-year break.
Stacey Selleck: As a poke in the eye to the citizen’s group, Clark and his allies have co-opted their popular name the Arkansas Term Limits Amendment, perhaps trying to confuse voters into thinking theirs is the citizen’s proposal. I suggested the legislators call theirs the Lifetime Politician Amendment. Arkansas Term Limits will seek volunteers and sponsor a real Term Limits Amendment for the 2020 ballot. Yes, we will change our popular name to The Arkansas Citizen’s Term Limits Amendment.
Nick Tomboulides: It really feels like there’s a new energy here today.
Philip Blumel: oh, there is. I heard you say to somebody today that we’ve made more progress in the last year than this movement has made in the last 10 or 15. That’s true. What’s happening in the states with the Term Limits convention, what’s happening in Congress with our hearings that we had last month, and with the bills in both houses and all the co-sponsors we have and our pledge program.
Philip Blumel: It is. There is a new energy. Boy it’s alive in this room.
Nick Tomboulides: We haven’t heard lot of skepticism, but when a skeptic does come up to the table it’s always usually the same objection. It says, “I love Term Limits. I would love to see this happen. It’s long overdue. We have to stop the career politicians. But, you know what, guys, Congress is never going to vote for it.”
Philip Blumel: Right. Yep.
Nick Tomboulides: I don’t mind this. It’s exciting when someone comes up, because the [crosstalk 00:10:46]
Nick Tomboulides: Yeah, I get to tell them, “Actually, we don’t need Congress at all. We can go around Congress. The states can do this on their own. Nobody in Washington can stand up and object to it.” When you tell them that, when you explain the way the Term Limits convention works their eyes light up and they get excited. They want to volunteer.
Philip Blumel: That’s right.
Nick Tomboulides: Most people don’t even know that exists.
Philip Blumel: Not. Yet.
Nick Tomboulides: It’s eye opening.
Philip Blumel: I tell them we have a new strategy and it’s working. Absolutely. Now, at the same time while we’re here talking to the Libertarians, another part of our team is over in Indianapolis, Indiana at the Young Democrats of America National Convention, and I talked to them earlier today also.
Nick Tomboulides: Let’s set the scene a little bit. Where exactly are you two?
Scott Tillman: Were in Indianapolis, Indiana, at the Young Democrats National Convention.
Nick Tomboulides: What’s your goal? What are we doing there this weekend?
Scott Tillman: We’re talking with activists, getting people to sign up, finding people who are interested in Term Limits in states where we plan on being active with are Article 5, and also with Congressional Pledge Program.
Nick Tomboulides: What kind of reception are you getting from folks at the booth?
Scott Tillman: It’s a great reception. People are very excited to have us here. They’re very excited to talk about Term Limits. It’s about the same ratio that we see everywhere where you go. Most people who come by and talk to us are either very much in favor, or they’re an elected official or they work for an elected [crosstalk 00:12:06]
Nick Tomboulides: Right. Right, okay.
Stacey Selleck: A lot of them are also running for a local office and they’re very interested in Term Limits, too.
Philip Blumel: Great. That pledge we got is that for a state representative, or for a Federal Congressional candidate?
Stacey Selleck: Actually it was a state representative from Oklahoma.
Philip Blumel: That’s good. All right, great. These are party activists. These are actually partisan Democrats. I’m wondering how familiar they are with the debates surrounding Term Limits that have been going on in their party over the last year or so. For instance, the little mini rebellion of Young House Democrats regarding the Speakership of Nancy Pelosi in which she agreed to Term Limit herself.
Scott Tillman: People have not been familiar with that particular discussion that’s been going on, but when we bring it up and talk about how you have new members who are trying to get things done and are very aggressively pursuing solutions and things and that they’re being stymied by leadership in both the House and the Senate. People pick up quickly on that. They understand that the longer somebody’s in an office and the fact that most of our congressmen on both sides are spending 70% of their time out fund raising, that if they were to solve a problem like the health care problem or the immigration problem that they can’t go fund raise on those issues anymore. People are very excited to talk about how new members are actually taking strong positions and trying to lead on the issue and they’re being stymied by leadership.
Stacey Selleck: I have a little bit of a different opinion, I think, on that because I did talk to a couple people and they were almost split on the leadership fight with AOC and Pelosi.
Philip Blumel: Interesting.
Stacey Selleck: Some of them thought she needs to learn how to play ball a little bit better, AOC that is, and that the party needs to stick together. Then, a few of the other ones are actually sometimes upset that the younger folks don’t really have a voice and don’t reach to the levers of power soon enough. It takes them too long and those are definitely the Term Limits supporters. I actually did hear from some of them that they were kind of upset that the Democratic party of Indiana favors incumbents.
Scott Tillman: We have had people comment on the fact that the DNC told consultants that they should not be helping people to challenge, or they wouldn’t be allowed to work with people who are challenging, incumbents. That discussion has come up multiple times while we’re here. People are very frustrated about that.
Stacey Selleck: Yeah, they don’t want primaries in their incumbent races.
Philip Blumel: Oh right. Even at a purely partisan conference you’re running into that, that’s excellent. The reach of Term Limits is just across the board, anywhere you go, even there. That’s fantastic. Now, any talk of the Presidential candidates? As we’ve been talking about on previous podcasts a quarter of these candidates running for the Democratic nomination for President are supporters of Term Limits.
Scott Tillman: Well, there is a lot of talk about the Democratic presidential candidates. Elizabeth Warren seems to be the most popular candidate people talk about, but people don’t really have a whole lot of opinions about where they stand on Term Limits. Discussing that issue hasn’t really … They’re more in tune to other things and they’re more concerned with who can win at this point.
Stacey Selleck: Yeah, I had an impromptu kind of straw poll and Elizabeth Warren blew everybody away by far, like 97% of the people I ask. There are a handful of Kamala supporters and a few Bernie supporters. I didn’t hear anything of Biden. I didn’t hear anything of-
Philip Blumel: Any candidates drop by the booth? Are there any big shots at the convention?
Scott Tillman: Well, we have not seen any major Democratic candidates. We did have the gentleman from the DNC, was it the Vice Chair, coming around and thanked us for being here.
Philip Blumel: Yeah, it’s good to be seen. Excellent.
Stacey Selleck: I did have another candidate in Mississippi, Antoine, and he definitely wants to get with us and sign the pledge, as well.
Philip Blumel: So, you’re going to leave there with a bunch of names and a bunch of new potential Term Limits activists?
Scott Tillman: We are getting lots and lots of sign ups. We are getting a great reception. People are excited here for the same reason they’re excited at every other conference that we go to. They don’t feel like they’re representatives are representative of them, and they realize that leadership is what is stopping the new people they elect from actually making the changes they want done.
Philip Blumel: Great. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 7: This is a public service announcement.
Philip Blumel: Jim Ross is probably the best known American professional wrestling commentator and he’s currently signed to All Elite Wrestling as a commentator and a senior adviser. Ross is no political pundit, but some of his recent comments on his Busted Out podcast in July shows that his world view is in line with the 82% of Americans who support Congressional Term Limits.
Speaker 8: You know, I get so damn sick of hearing about “Oh, the left side of the aisle, the right side of the aisle. Oh, the left, the right, the Democrats or Republicans.” We all got to understand what these politicians are. They’re all the same. They just wear a different jersey. They all have the same agendas, themselves. The era of public servants has gone to hell, and professional politicians are in vogue, and we see that now where all these ridiculous things that are going on and it rubs off on … It’s a societal thing.
Philip Blumel: Thanks for joining us again this week. U.S. Term Limits wants to reach as many different groups as possible representing every political party and ideological point of view. Anyone who opposes corruption and seeks change is a natural advocate of Term Limits. If you know of any conferences or events that we can participate in please let us know. We can also provide a speaker for larger events. Of course, the easiest way to amplify the voice of the Term Limits movement is to encourage your friends and family to tune in to No Uncertain Terms podcast. When they ask where I can find it, please tell them to search for No Uncertain Terms in whatever platform they use for podcasts, including iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, whatever. For podcast newbies, send them to the website at www.termlimits.com/podcast. They can choose an episode and become part of the inner circle of a movement that is going to change the way Congress works forever. We’ll be back next week.
Speaker 9: Yay.
Speaker 2: Follow us on Twitter at U.S. Term Limits.
MUSIC CREDITS – Full versions of the music sampled during this podcast may be purchased via iTunes at the following links : “Stepping Out” by The Fall, “Buffalo Soldier” by Bob Marley
The “No Uncertain Terms” podcast is produced by Kenn Decter for U.S. Term Limits
Executive Producer Philip Blumel (President, U.S. Term Limits)
