We're with you, Indiana furs! by Gray Muzzle

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We're with you, Indiana furs!

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Human rights are NOT optional, nor are they canceled because they offend someone
Art used with permission

11 years ago

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KiDra

@KiDra 11 years ago

http://www.ted.com/talks/io_tillett_wright_fifty_shades_of_gay

Agreed; I've always contended that we're all somewhere on a continuum between 'totally straight' and 'totally gay'.
Which makes homophobia even sillier,
or easier to understand.

Also agreed. My personal suspicion is that people who are genuinely 100% straight or 100% gay are actually rare.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

-Martin Niemöller

"do not ask for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee"
John Donne

Well equality is tough because where does the line stop? It's really cool that gays get freedom, but then there are other groups who will want equality for lets say marriage, and then you have 68 year old men marrying 10 year old girls. I'm not trying to troll, it's just sometimes things that seem like a good thing have unintended consequences

Well, when in doubt, ask a lawyer- like me!
Children are not adults. There are lots of things kids cannot do. Drive cars, Vote. Smoke. Drink alcohol. Sign contracts. Consent to sex, or get married.
There. Glad I was able to clear that up.
BTW, same thing applies to 'animals'; no, you'll never be able to marry your dog. Or have sex with her.....or him.

That's implying that it will stay that way forever. African American's were able to do very very little, and who would have thought back when the Civil War was going on that African Americans would have rights, let alone be considered citizens.
"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must Man be of learning from experience."
-George Bernard Shaw

Indeed, our sensibilities have evolved.
When this country was founded, 'citizen' meant an adult male landowner. Gradually, we included women, Blacks, and non property owners. We also decided that animals and children deserved special protection that they had not previously received- You can't force children into employment, or try them in adult courts, and you cannot abuse animals.
The founding fathers did get it right, though; they guaranteed 'equal protection under law', which is how we came to expand our definition of 'citizen.
I'm married 25 years this year. There isn't anything that affects our union except the two of us. Marry the opposite sex, the same sex, or no one at all. Doesn't matter to me one bit. But, I'll fight to the death for everyone's right to be who they are.

I get that, injustice is very rampant, especially today. And I will be the first person to stick up for another person who has been bullied for being different. But equality means more than just who they are. Who they are, has honestly nothing to do with equality, who you are is a personal thing, society today has just made a very personal issue public for everyone to gawk at and argue about. The only reason I said what I said was to state that even the most gracious of acts, can have unexpected consequences.

As someone who grew up in the 50's and Sixties, I watched the evening news, where people marched, sat in, and were sometimes beaten, jailed, or even killed for the simple act of seeking to sit in a restaurant. Oddly enough, many used their Christian faith as a way of justification.
Isn't it odd that we're all against the Taliban or the Mullahs of Iran, forcing religion into government, but when it's our country, and the religion is Christianity, it's suddenly OK?
For the record, the governor of Indiana does NOT speak for this old, white, straight, Christian male.

Unquestionably! Well said!!!

(smiles)
A meeting of great minds......

I believe in the equal rights of all, not just the chosen few. the rights of all to be gay, and the rights of store owners to decide who they want on their private properties. all that legislation does, is say that businesses have the right to refuse to serve gays. Granted I make no association, or imply any relation between gays and the KKK, but if a black photographer was demanded to take a photo shoot for the KKK, would we all be lined up calling him an asshole for refusing. welcome to america, we are all free to decide what we do, and allow on our own property. if people want to not allow gays in their store, as much of a dick move as that may be, it's their property. I no more would deny them that right, than i would want to be denied my rights to govern my property. I don't dislike gays, in fact, i've got a number of gay friends, that I am gay with, but i'm tired of this attitude that it's OK to force people to do things they don't want to do, especially, on their turf. I am all for the government not discriminating, but as a free people, on our own property, that is a right. if we start taking that away, then one by one, we will lose all of our rights. I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers with that statement, but at this point i don't care. I'm Gay, and I Live in Indiana, and I support that Bill, not because it may have "anti-gay" undertones, but because it stands up for peoples personal liberties.

No, it doesn't. You can worship who and where you want. Your church can recognize what marriages it will perform. What you CANNOT do is discriminate in 'public accommodations based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, or handicap. That's the U.S. Constitution. I have an issue with people who'd like to do away with it.
And I don't care if you're a handicapped Lesbian Muslim from Iraq with one leg; if you really believe what you said, you're a bigot.

I agree with every point you made there, so what is your issue. to the extent of my knowledge, based on information provided by a number of people with legal background, the legislation in question states that private, not public entities, are not required to serve people, if they don't want to. if your implying that shopping at a certain store is a right, then you are mistaken. I as well am a strong advocate of the US constitution. i just hope you are aware of what "public accommodations" are. they are any service, product, or establishment paid for by the pubic, through taxes. in other words, private businesses are not public, and hence, not barred form discriminating. and if we have made it a point to bar them from governing their operations, on their property, then we have gone against out constitution, and against the ideals upon which we established this country. Perhaps I am mistaken on the letter of the law, but foregoing that, i cannot see how you feel this is breaching any legal, or moral requirements.

Let's be clear; this is not MY opinion; it's the basic law of this land since the sixties- that's over fifty years. Remember the sixties? Back then, in some states, private entities- like Woolworth's - prohibited Black Americans from eating at their lunch counters. Hotels, busses, Nightclubs and other businesses did the same at the time. Our courts decided that you couldn't do that, and rightly so. Are you suggesting that our gay brothers and sisters have LESS rights than Black citizens, or should we allow them to discriminate based on race as well? On religion? What about Arabs? The handicapped?
The law in question covers not only individuals but corporations. Since when do corporations have religions? Can corporations require employees who don't believe in discrimination to discriminate due to corporate policy?
Do you believe it should be legal to discriminate against gays?
That's the only question.
BTW, you are factually incorrect on the definition of 'public accommodations'. Look it up.

I give up. Not on the fight, but on winning it in a peaceful fashion. you want to take my rights away from me, very well. I will treat all of your rights with the same disregard. Have a good day sir.

I take nothing from anyone. You may think the law an ass, but it remains the law.

I just can't believe that this was actually <i>allowed</i> to pass. :/ People can be assholes.

As is their right as Americans.

In the same way it is their right to join the Klan, or to drink themselves to death. That's their right.
What is NOT their right is to deprive even ONE other American of their basic Constitutional rights.

You are correct. They do have the right to be assholes. What they don't have a right to do is say that they won't serve you because you love someone of the same sex. Not in a place like a restaurant or a theater.

The should, because unless that theater is owned by the taxpayers, the person who does own it, should not be forced to do business they don't want to do. for example, as a strong supporter of the second amendment, I carry a firearm with me. some places turn me away, and as irritating as that might be, i respect it as their right. Should all businesses be required to allow me to carry a firearm in their establishment?

I understand that, but why? Why should they be able to refuse someone based on the person they love? The color of their skin? Their gender? Why? You saying that the bill in Indiana should pass because it protects the business' rights is like saying that the bill in California that is proposing to shoot all gays in the head if people so wish is protecting individual rights.

As libertarian as I am, there's one thing that I can't stand, and it's turning people away for such superficial things as what I listed above.

because liberty isn't always pretty. and if we make a habit of outlawing what we don't like, pretty soon, between all of our dislikes, we will have outlawed everything. I understand your concerns, but in all honesty, even if one business turns down a preticular group, another will rise to serve them, because they can corner the market. for gods sake, look at bondsmen, they bail out criminals, why, because as bad of people as they might be, its profitable. if you don't like a decision a business makes, then don't give them your business, and if their stance is so wrong, then they will lose all of their customers, and go under. Let them chose, and suffer the consequences. wouldn't you rather be free to make a bad choice, then not be free to chose? that it what makes america free. you are allowed to do stupid things, and if you do the wrong thing, you lose. I beg of you, don't throw our rights away.

You're right. You're completely right. But does the bill say anything about not allowing them to serve blacks? Hispanics? Women? Men? Whites? Heterosexuals? No. If you're going to allow them to discriminate, allow them to discriminate against everyone. And we'll see which businesses survive, and most likely, it'll be the ones that serve everybody.

However, I will always disagree with discrimination, especially the type like the proposed bills in Michigan (a few months back) and in California right now.

i agree gray, but i have two caveats. I disagree, that anyone at all, should have the right, moral, legal, ethical (or otherwise) to hurt me for my religious beliefs, nor should i, have the right, legal ethical, moral (or otherwise) to do the same. I am very tolerant, but even that tolerance has its limits. blowing up buildings, shooting people, harming civilians, crashing a pair of planes full of people into the twin towers?

The second caveat is the government shitting all over our rights, stealing our assets, stealing our money, mass arresting us, denying our many amendment rights, torturing us, throwing us into prisons and leaving us to rot for the rest of our lives?...

fuck this, you can keep your burning country, im moving to Greenland.

Well, using Taurin Fox's famous image certainly got my attention. Which is good, I didn't realize what was going on. It's a clever bit of rebranding, I'll give it that, calling prejudice "religious freedom". The scary thing is my own state legislature has been tinkering with something similar, though it didn't pass (yet?).

I really don't understand what's going on in this country anymore.

Yeah that image has been around for a while. The new laws that effectively permit discrimination that go on in your country really do put grey cloud over the civilized Americans among st you. I only hope such a law doesn't rear it's ugly head in England.

I've never see the sofurry community so alive before =p This new law is simply blatant discrimination under the guise of "religious freedom". People should just know how to treat gay people in society by now. Civil rights have been around for a long time come on people....

Interesting; I had Googled 'retire in Balise' (even fox have fantasies!) which lead to a string of videos from people who had done just that. They all had one common theme:
DON'T!
I discovered South America has crime, violence and corruption that makes Mexico look like paradise. Seems that without a strong government, people rob, burglarize, extort, kidnap, and pretty much do as they please.
A peek into the future for those 'good government is no government' types.

And the idiot that ran Indiana is now one heartbeat (or impeachment!) away from being President.

Just a note. When this was first posted, guess who was Governor of Indiana? Mike Pence.

Welcome back!

Gray Muzzle

@GrayMuzzle

Gray Muzzle

@GrayMuzzle

We're with you, Indiana furs!

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Gray Muzzle

@GrayMuzzle

Gray Muzzle

@GrayMuzzle

We're with you, Indiana furs! Title can't be empty.

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We're with you, Indiana furs!

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