Slashcast Transcripts

Episode 41: Insider Interview

2013-10-22T16:32:22Z

Ep 41 Insider Interview Transcript

Host: djin7
Guest: tripperfunster
Topic: Even the kids shows aren’t safe!

DJ: Welcome to the Slashcast Insider Interview, I’m DJ and my guest today is Tripperfunster, also known as The Mistress of Squick. And she is here to discuss her many forays into slashing inappropriate characters for the lulz. Tripperfunster does amazing work and we’ll be linking to her art and tumblr archive so you can check it out. In many fandoms Tripp is well known for her fanart, but she is perhaps most infamous for her sense of dark humour and lack of boundaries. And it is these gifts that brought her here today for Slashcast Episode 41: Fandom Goggles, Even the Kids Shows Aren’t Safe. Thanks for joining me today, Tripp.

Tripperfunster: I am totally putting that intro on my gravestone.

DJ: [laughs] Are you saying it’s appropriate?

Tripp: I’m saying it was fantastic.

DJ: It is all true.

Tripp: It is all true, but it was fantastic. And it was well put, how’s that? Eloquent.

DJ: Pleasure. So of course what everyone wants to know is the story of how you decided to start slashing cartoon characters and/or the like?

Tripp: I don’t know if slashing anything is something you decided to do - shipping – it is, it’s just so organic. You know, you don’t sit down and say ‘I think I’ll make these two guys fuck’, you just sort of [DJ laughs], I mean, well you do that too, but that’s not how it begins. It’s just, er, um, well I didn’t actually, I wasn’t in fandom before I had children.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: Um and I actually have a son that I named Harry and never would have named him Harry had I, you know, drawn some of the fanart that I have drawn since.

DJ: Yeah.

Tripp: With Snape that is.

DJ: Exactly.

Tripp: Um, I would have named him Snarry if I’d known. [both giggle] Forever to be beaten up in the playground. [laughs] And my daughter, Snermione. [both laugh] Um, so I found fandom later on after reading the Harry Potter books, and very innocently googled ‘Snape and sex’ and, er, found my very first fanfic ever, and it was – thank god – slash. And I didn’t know that slash as a lifestyle choice, I guess, existed, or as entertainment or whatever. I was er, it was possibly the best moment of my entire life.

DJ: One of those wonderful epiphanies that only come around-

Tripp: Including the birth of both of my children. [both laugh]

DJ: I hear that!

Tripp: And er- says the childless woman. [both laugh] [sarcastically] ‘Including the pretend birth, of both of my pretend children.’ But it was, it was amazing. It was a Snape/Sirius slash by isiscolo.

DJ: Oh.

Tripp: Which, if you’re going to stumble on a writer it might as well be isiscolo for your first.

DJ: What luck!

Tripp: Oh my God, no kidding. Um, so I seriously just about had a heart attack I was so excited that I found this and figured that it was like one teeny gem in massive ocean of what might be out there. Little did I know that it was, you know, ripe for the picking. So much slash. Erm…

DJ: But it was a teeny gem in a mountain hill, still.

Tripp: Oh it was, but I really didn’t think I would find much homoerotic writing out there though, let alone good. I mean I wasn’t even- good wasn’t even an issue, give me all the crappy stuff as long as it exists.

DJ: Right exactly.

Tripp: But it was my luck that there’s just a, you know, a shit ton of fantastic slashy art and fic out there. So then after getting into shipping, and getting into the whole slash genre, you just can’t help but when you’re watching television, you know the kids are watching, say The Wiggles [DJ starts giggling] and for those of you – which sounds slashy all by itself – um, for those of you without children, you know, children don’t watch a television programme once, they watch it 75 million times and just through sheer exposure, after your brain melts and you lose your will to live a very small part of your brain tries to make sense out of what you’re seeing for the billionth time and, you know, it’s for the gay. You know, let’s make everyone gay, and all of a sudden the show is a lot more interesting. So, er, you know I didn’t actively slash The Wiggles but I mentally slashed The Wiggles because that’s the only way to listen and watch The Wiggles for any amount of time. Thank god my kids didn’t like Barney!

DJ: Right. Thank god.

Tripp: Because that’s just wrong, on so many levels.

DJ: I’ve heard of Barney fic.

Tripp: Oh, oh, yes I’m sure there’s more than enough- there is actually some horrific Wiggles fic out there too. [both chuckling] Not written by me.

DJ: No.

Tripp: But just you know, and as their programmes thank god, became more – the television programmes or movies my kids watched became more interesting, or well written, or plotty, or better character development just because the kids themselves were older, the more it sort of became more interesting for me to watch it as well as them because there was better rounded characters, and better looking characters than The Wiggles. [laughs]

DJ: Well I think a lot of those, a lot of those, the makers of these things start to understand too that the parents are forced to watch them and they do kind of sneak in sometimes adult-ish content that only you’ll get because they’ll make some crack about mash (M*A*S*H), or some TV show from 20 years ago, right?

Tripp: Can I just that my friend texted me the other day, her kid was watching iCarly which is, you know, rated for, well not rated, but geared toward pre-teen crowd, you know, the tweens, and on the show they said the word hobknocker and it was like an insult and they wouldn’t say what it meant and so my friend Googled hobknocker and it’s actually somebody who hits you in the face with their penis.

DJ: Oh my god.

Tripp: [laughing] And this is like a, I don’t know if it’s Disney, but it’s like Teletoon or, you know…

DJ: Right, right. It’s a family-slash.

Tripp: It’s a family – not a family-slash! - but a family show and yeah, I’d not heard the term hobknocker, nor have I experienced it, but um it was pretty amazing-

DJ: I’m sure you could draw a picture about it, fairly sure.

Tripp: I may just. [laughs] But anyway I guess my whole point being just being exposed to all these shows ad nauseum you can’t help but slash them. And some of them really slash themselves. And I know we’re specifically talking about cartoons today, and kids shows, um, one show that I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of is Phineas and Ferb, which is a Disney cartoon. Which is really clever, and wickedly funny, for people who have to sit through kids programmes that’s a really good one, and the writers totally slash the two – it’s about children and then they have a pet who is a platypus who is also a secret agent, unbeknownst to the, who battles an evil scientist. But two of the kids are constantly slashed by the writers, there’s a bully and his, whatever, wimpy kid he picks on, smart little wimpy kid. And they are constantly- one of them carries the other around in – what are those? – like a baby backpack, or puts him in his shirt, or does all sorts of terribly slashy things, and the platypus and the evil scientist are constantly slashed. It wasn’t that my mind made this up, it’s that they kept serving it to me on a silver platter-

DJ: There’s a deliberate pandering of some kind of bromance going on there is what you’re saying?

Tripp: Oh, like they break up, like the scientist cheats on the platypus [DJ laughs] with another secret agent. Like they, and there’s he has his own breakup s-[audio breaks up, could be song or storyline]

DJ: [joking] Do they have a divorce?

Tripp: They do! Like, he like hides the other guy in the closet because the platypus comes and he hides his other secret agent because he’s cheating on him with a panda from Seattle [DJ laughs] believe it or not.

DJ: [still laughing] A platypus and a panda from Seattle.

Tripp: And there’s one scene where they’re going through this laundry thing and they both come out wearing different clothes and the platypus is dressed as a groom and the evil scientist is dressed as a bride. Like, they seriously…

DJ: Easy, yeah.

Tripp: Oh, yeah. But it’s, and it’s so wrong. I’m not into furries, I don’t- it just isn’t my thing, whatever. And being an artist there’s furry art all over the place. I totally ship this platypus with this evil scientist, though this is not a furry ‘cause he’s an actual animal.

DJ: Actual!

Tripp: If you know what I- like he’s-

DJ: Bestiality’s okay but, furries: no good.

Tripp: Yes, exactly. That’s my point. Bestiality is completely is, it’s the best-iality. [DJ laughs]. And er, but yeah, again there’s probably… gone, gone in a whole flurry of porn. In fact, I happened to happen upon one of the artists and writers for Fineas and Ferb on one of the art sites, and sent him a piece of art. I have Perry the Platypus and the evil scientist wearing housecoats in bed, and just reading the morning paper kind of thing. And the scientist, Doofensmirtz is his name, says, er, he’s doing the crossword and he says to the platypus, ‘I need a ten letter word for what we just did.’ And I sent that piece of art to the artist that works on Fineas and Ferb, you know, part of me thinking that – ‘cause I don’t generally cross the line of-

DJ: Right, the fourth wall there.

Tripp: Yeah, I don’t generally break the fourth wall because won’t appreciate what I do at all. [both chuckle] In fact cease and desist orders would be sent to me, and er – although I do it in love – er, he, the writer, or writer-slash-artist, that works for Phineas and Ferb enjoyed it and said that it was seriously nothing compared to what they draw at the studio. [DJ laughs] Which filled me with all sorts of glee I can’t even tell you. And I sent them a pretty tame piece, you know I have full on bondage porn of the two of them, this was just a bit of a cute, somewhat worksafe thing. You know, as worksafe as bestiality can be.

DJ: Right. Right. Thanks for putting my brain there though that’s great.

Tripp: And I work in a pet store so you can imagine how-

DJ: So you probably know the best way to tie up a platypus. [Tripp laughs] I mean you have a pretty good-

Tripp: It’s the scientist that gets tied up, come on!

DJ: [Laughs] That’s awesome. Alright, well, obviously your brain is definitely in that place where you can take a look at these sorts of things and bring them to a whole new level for the rest of us to enjoy. Crack wise, and everything else wise. What, how your process goes from watching the show, seeing the pandering done to you and/or the slashy moments and then bringing your pencil to paper and posting it, going in that direction.

Tripp: *sighs* That’s a good question. I er, I-

DJ: What inspired you to get to that point?

Tripp: I would like to tell you that there is a very involved process [laughs], but it’s more of a ‘wow I really need to draw them doing buttsex’, you know, it’s the… although I mean I guess a lot of what I draw tends to be more cracky or funny. [DJ makes agreeing noise] I usually like to fool myself into thinking that I’m really just there for the humour factor. So usually the first, you know, five to ten times I draw a pairing, especially a pairing that would be more of a technically children’s show pairing-

DJ: I remember when you were doing Spongebob a few years ago.

Tripp: There you go. Like, you know my first Spongebob picture was implied oral sex as opposed to actual oral sex.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: It was more, you know, Spongebob has such a great reaction, such a great… facial expressions, like seriously as an artist everyone should study Spongebob and the cast of characters for all of the facial expressions they make, they’re just fantastic. So it was more about his facial expressions than the actual sex act. And I had one where Spongebob was holding up Patrick, kind of like Titanic. [DJ laughs] And ‘I’m the King of the World!’, you know one of those-

DJ: I remember that one.

Tripp: Yeah, and then, and then I had to draw, you know everybody, you know all the main characters of the cast of Spongebob and how their penises mimic what their body shapes look like. [DJ starts laughing] So Spongebob would have square balls, of course,

DJ: We absolutely have to have that link to this, just so you know.

Tripp: Yes, okay. I’ll have to- make me some notes on what I have to find the art for. But I would say that it’s generally kind of gradual where it goes from like cute, and silly, and funny, and then cracky, and then holy fuck what the hell is wrong with that girl, why would she draw somebody, you know Patrick fucking one of Spongebobs holes in his sponge? [DJ laughs] Like it generally degrades into, you know, like Perry the Platypus with the Doctor there was some hugging, and some implied after sex, and then it degraded into sounding. [Both laugh] Of the Platypus-

DJ: As you do.

Tripp: Putting his penis into the human’s penis. I mean I really honestly spent way too much time thinking about how they could actually have sex because they are so dimorphic of size and shape and species that, um…

DJ: That never stopped fandomers.

Tripp: Well exactly.

DJ: That’s just another challenge.

Tripp: Yeah, exactly, you know everyone likes a good challenge. But I guess my process is not intentional I don’t think, but it tends to be more – cause most of the characters that I draw or write I really like – and I really like the dynamic they have together and I draw them because I love them, and then I draw them because I’m a dirty old lady! [DJ giggles] So it’s a progression… into porn.

DJ: So it comes from a pure place-

Tripp: Except when it’s not.

DJ: -and then it ends up, um...

Tripp: And then it gets sullied-

DJ: -in a pit of despair.

Tripp: -and sullied and sullied, it’s just like a big bukkake. [laughs]

DJ: Well you know, you know anime people have been doing that from Asia for a long, long time of course. They take their animes like InuYasha and all those, have always had sort of slashy shipping, erm, pornographic variants, even that get published in that country because the Asians are pretty forward when it comes to that sort of thing, so-. But when it comes to North American cartoons, and sponges for instance.

Tripp: Yes!

DJ: You know, that’s different, that, my friend, is vision. That’s what you have.

Tripp: [laughs] I am so ahead of my time.

DJ: Well, I know, I mean the anime characters all pretty anyways and everybody wants them to have sex. So what you do is you take somebody who couldn’t possibly have sex really, ‘cause he’s a sponge-

Tripp: But you know what, I have to say, that I genuinely focus on the ugly. I don’t know why, but I just, you know, the evil scientist?

DJ: Yeah.

Tripp: Not a good looking dude. [DJ chuckles] It’s like I’m doing ugly cartoon characters a favour. [both chuckle]

DJ: Getting ugly laid one pic [might also be fic] at a time.

Tripp: I suppose it’s pity sex, pity sex for all the ugly cartoon characters. I’m that girl.
DJ: Yes you are. We love you. You have some other ones too, not just Phineas and Ferb, but Megamind which is I think a movie.

Tripp: Megamind, oh my god, and Megamind wasn’t even a movie that particularly interested me. I’ve been burned by Will Ferrell. I have a love-hate relationship with Will Ferrell, and he did the voice work for the character Megamind.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: Um, and I ended up seeing the movie because it was sort of the only kids movie that was available that my kids were willing to see at the time we went out to a movie. And, like, seriously half way through the movie I was, like, clapping and squealing with glee because it was just a really cute heartfelt wonderful movie and the character was completely, I guess like a woobie, you know, like just somebody you wanted to take home and you know breastfeed. It was one of those were I didn’t know if I wanted to breastfeed him or have sex with him. [DJ laughs] And then I thought, why can’t I do both, really? Why do I have to choose? Er, and [DJ says something inaudible] yeah, and then, so yeah I spent a lot of time, you know, torturing and rewarding the characters from that movie. With sex, upon sex, upon sex. And also, another whole issue of, you know, the person I paired him with was the large superhero of the movie, and they also are very physically incompatible.

DJ: Of course.

Tripp: Or, whatever. It was a challenge. My kind of challenge. But, yeah Megamind definitely was something that really pinged my little slashy radar.

DJ: Nice.

Tripp: Um. Avengers, which isn’t technically kids, but is definitely geared towards kids, and always has been, I guess, is something that I’m very much into at the moment. But also Star Trek, which again isn’t so much kids but it something that I went to see with my kids and they quite liked. And more things that I can scar their childhood with.

DJ: Of course. Well done.

Tripp: Thank you, thank you very much.

DJ: Well like with Harry Potter of course, comic book movies and TV show movies are geared towards the kids originally and then eventually get geared towards the people who have the money in the wallet to go see the movie. So…

Tripp: Right, yeah.

DJ: They make it a bit more adult-oriented for us all, but you’re right they all stem from entertainment for children originally.

Tripp: Right. Um, something we haven’t really hit on, and again not something I judge other people for, but in almost all of the fandoms that I draw in or write in, and it’s not a conscious decision, but I, if there are children characters [DJ makes listening noise], I don’t, like I’ve seen you know, I’ve seen lots of stuff where they have the kids together or whatever, it just doesn’t interest me. Maybe because I have kids.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: It’s sort of like, I don’t know. It’s just like a l- it’s not like ‘oh I’ll never do that’, it just doesn’t occur to me to do it. It doesn’t really, you know, I mean obviously I get something out of what I’m drawing and that isn’t something I’d get something out of. The exception being [chuckles] there’s always one.

DJ: There’s always one.

Tripp: Would be Harry Potter.

DJ: Right you don’t like him particularly young, obviously.

Tripp: No, I mean with everything, you know er, pubes. I draw the line at pubes, if you don’t have them I’m not interested thank you very much. [DJ laughs]Um, I mean it is a cross-generational ship, but you know I wasn’t particularly interested in a Harry/Snape relationship when he was eleven years old and came to the school. It was much more- I guess one of the tropes that I really like is first time fics, you know either the first time two characters get together, or the first time one of those people, you know like a virgin kink or whatever. But, erm, and I certainly have no problem with what I guess would be considered illegal in some countries, um, like I don’t mind the characters being under eighteen but I definitely want them to be willing participants.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: And that’s not going to happen with an eleven year old, or well, I shouldn’t say that. In my world it’s not going to happen with an eleven year old.

DJ: You got that right.

Tripp: It may happen in real life, but that’s- this is not about real life, this is about fun and fantasy.

DJ: That’s right, that’s not cracky fun.

Tripp: Yeah.

DJ: So you have said you’re dealing with some current fandoms like The Avengers and Star Trek which is going to be hitting right big in tumblr very shortly when the movie comes out of course, I expect to see eight hundred thousand posts with that crap in it.

Tripp: Oh my God, Star Trek and Iron Man 3 both come out in May.

DJ: Right. So tumblr will be unmanageable.

Tripp: And I’m already like getting my adult diapers ready. I’m very excited. [DJ laughs]

DJ: But, so is that what you’re looking forward to coming up soon, or any cartoons or things coming up, new stuff? Any current projects or…?

Tripp: You know nothing… oh actually, believe it or not, because I’m sure your mind will be blown when I tell you, but the creators or Phineas and Ferb are actually doing a Phineas and Ferb x Avengers crossover. [DJ chuckles] Coming this summer. And it was like they crawled into my head and then into my pants and said ‘This is what Tripper needs in her life’. And er, so there’s actually going to be a Phineas and Ferb Avengers movie coming out in the summer.

DJ: Nice.

Tripp: And if they could just throw a little Spongebob in there and maybe a little Megamind, I might never-

DJ: You know what else is coming up soon is a new Monsters Incorporated, it’s Monsters’ University.

Tripp: That’s right, Mike and Sully.

DJ: Mike and Sully, yep! Those guys totally do it. They do it in the dark.

Tripp: Well they must be, pft, they don’t do it in the dark, they do it in the light.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: But there is a movie that I have seen a hundred thousand times, it just didn’t occur to me. I mean, obviously it always occurs to me, but it didn’t, I didn’t have that burning desire to draw it. I don’t know why. Toy Story, fantastic, I mean great dynamic between Buzz and Woody, would be an obvious pairing… just didn’t occur to me, like it just didn’t, I don’t know why ‘cause they’re great characters. They’re super well-rounded and they’re both attractive… maybe that’s it!

DJ: Maybe that’s it. Even though Mike really has no appendages to speak of-

Tripp: Mike Wazowski is a-

DJ: He’s got one eye.

Tripp: Yup. We’re not going to talk about poking it out. [both laugh]

DJ: What was that, hobknocker? [both laugh hard]

Tripp: Yeah, I don’t know why, I don’t know why those… you know what I mean? I, there is no understanding what the hell pings my slash alarm, it just does. It’s not for me to question.

DJ: Yeah, I mean all of us-

Tripp: It’s just for me to draw.

DJ: -all of us in slash fandom can get on board with that. I mean everybody’s had that epiphany moment, although usually not with sponges, but you know- [both laugh] but you just have a great depth of creativity is what I’m trying to say.

Tripp: I think I know what it is, I think part of what is is that the ones that I slash I tend to have a crush on. Not necessarily the pairing, but like I totally crushed on Megamind, totally crushed on Patrick from Spongebob. I have like, seriously, amazing taste in men. Um, but I guess it’s just have these sexual feelings for these imaginary characters and since it would be really inappropriate to draw me having sex with Patrick, it would totally scar my children forever. I guess I self-insert with another character.

DJ: You Mary-Sue!

Tripp: I Mary-Sue, I do, I really do. Um, I assume, I like to assume in my own mind that’s what everyone does.

DJ: Yes, that’s what everyone does.

Tripp: Yeah, it’s just that I don’t want to actually Mary-Sue so I pretend. [chuckles] I pretend that I’m just this skilled artist-writer that fills out these canon characters, but in fact it’s just me with a cheap plastic mask on pretending to be another character. [both laugh] Something I did slash instinct, I don’t know Jake and Josh if you’ve ever seen that show.

DJ: I have not. I do have somebody on my flist that does slash them. I have seen-

Tripp: I didn’t because they’re kinda young, [DJ makes agreeing noise] but from looking at that other people. [laughs]

DJ: Oh right. Of course. Have you seen Teen Wolf yet?

Tripp: I have not. I’ve heard lots about it.

DJ: Yes.

Tripp: I honestly cannot afford another fandom. Like I just do not have the time.

DJ: I just tripped into one myself, but not that one yet.

Tripp: Oh but it’s apparently great, I hear.

DJ: Yes. Yes, and apparently they pander to the fans as well and they really, um…

Tripp: -slash it up?

DJ: Slash it up, and, er, do all kinds of things to involve fandom, break down that fourth wall.

Tripp: Right. Well, I have Netflix, so we’ll have to…

DJ: But you know, and of course that begs for bestiality also. [Tripp laughs] They’re asking for it, they’re gonna get it, in spades.

Tripp: Now is Teen Wolf a kids show, or is it?

DJ: Um, I guess it’s you know it’s like The Vampire Diaries, you know it’s Buffy-like.

Tripp: So it’s like young, young adult?

DJ: Young- young- young adult, I guess. It’s kids are, most of the kids characters are in high school.

Tripp: Okay.

DJ: Do you have happen to have a favourite fic or piece of art in any of your kids show fandoms?

Tripp: Ohh, could I narrow it down, that’s the question? I, I think some of my best art, um, serious art in the kids fandoms would probably be Megamind. There’s great colours in that show.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: And there was great art in whatever the graphics is, it’s a 3D graphic, which generally isn’t my favourite, but they did a really nice job on it. Then I did a lot of pastel work and stuff, I’m not a digital artist per se, and was really unhappy with a lot of the art that I had drawn for that. I mean part of the problem you know like with Harry Potter you can imagine what the characters look like and draw them as you like.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: You know you don’t necessarily have to stick to the movie people, and even if you did they’re real people and when you draw them they’re going to look like you’ve drawn real people as opposed to photographs. When you’re drawing a cartoon, um, at least I give myself the expectation that it has to look like it does on the screen.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: When you’re drawing a cartoon, um, at least I give myself the expectation that it has to look like it does on the screen. You know what I mean it’s almost a literal translation which can be difficult, especially when it’s a digital item-

DJ: [Something] to these cartoons, yeah.

Tripp: -yes, and I’m very much a traditional artist. I ended up finding that pastels, chalk pastels on black paper look really fucking good and managed to do some really nice work that way. I mean I think some of my most- my funnier work was probably Phineas and Ferb because, you know, it’s a guy fucking a platypus. [laughs] How can that not be funny?

DJ: Exactly.

Tripp: On any level.

DJ: So, listen, do you have any pairings or cartoons that you have never done that you’d love to try some day?

Tripp: Something I see a lot of, is there’s a lot of Transformer art out there.

DJ: Oooh, nice.

Tripp: And it’s generally the cartoon transformers, like The Transformers or whatever.

DJ: Right, right, right. Yeah, early Transformers.

Tripp: As opposed to the movie guys, yeah I guess so. You know I almost kind of wish that I could go back in time, and you know I watched a lot of Rocket Robin Hood and He-Man-

DJ: And She Ra.

Tripp: Yeah, and, er, what was that guy? Hercules!

DJ: Oh, god. Thanks that song is running through my head now.

Tripp: Yes, thank you, anytime. [Sings] “With the strength of ten ordinary men, it’s the sign of Hercules.” Um

DJ: “Herc, Herc!”

Tripp: “It’s the Daedalus creature, the Daedalus creature.” But, you know, those shows were virtually unwatchable they were so shitty and had I been slashing back then those cartoons would have been so much more amazing than they are now for sure. A show that is really quite funny and clever, and quirky is Gravity Falls, that’s what it’s called, Gravity Falls.

DJ: Is it good?

Tripp: It’s something my kids have been watching, but there’s not a lot of episodes out there, but super funny, super clever, I could totally see myself drawing horrible, terrible things for that one.

DJ: Nice.

Tripp: Yes.

DJ: So do you have any advice for anybody, you know, fanartist or fanfic writers who, you know, want to go to that edge and then, you know, go wheeling on over? [laughs]

Tripp: [chuckles] Follow right along. Um, you know just do it. Just do what you like. I started my entire art career in fandom, I didn’t, other than, like, in high school like everybody I drew a little bit, but I didn’t draw for twenty years before finding fandom and I was inspired by a lot of the artists that I saw – this was all in the Harry Potter fandom at the time – and thought, hell I wanna do that, and picked up a pencil and absolutely fucking sucked. And kept drawing anyway, and, you know I wouldn’t say I’m great but I’m a hundred miles from where I began and I’m happy with a lot of the stuff I put out. It’s, I’m not as good as I wanna be, but I get better all the time. I mean I’m at the point now where I can generally successfully express what I’m trying to say, I guess.

DJ: Right.

Tripp: Which, you know, is a nice place to be. For sure. I can get my point across, you know, I can get the joke in there, or the feeling or the emotion that I want to emote generally will come across and that’s just from, you know drawing, drawing, drawing, drawing, drawing. But it’s, it really is such a gift, like fandom, to be able to put stuff out there and have other people enjoy it the same way I enjoy it. And I enjoy it way more; I mean I would probably draw it for myself anyway, but the fact that I can draw something and go ‘Oh, fuck, you know that’s funny’, you know I really liked the joke in that and then I can put it out on the old internet, the intertube and have other people enjoy it as well, and find it funny, and laugh along with me is just, you know, the experience times ten.

DJ: Right. Have you ever had a bou- when you do cross the boundaries of – as some people might say – good taste do you ever find situations where you feel like you’ve been taken to task for that, or have you been able to just withstand that sort of thing, or does nobody even come up and say ‘Hey, this is-’? I mean except for the whole platypus/wild kingdom thing. Has anybody ever really made you feel uncomfortable? I mean for those people out there who might want to go a little cracky, or do a little crazy stuff, there’s a couple of artists in fandom who’ve done it and it’s been a long time since I’ve seen any of them sort of around, and you seem to just not care… which is awesome.

Tripp: I have been totally been lambasted, I am, er, I am insulting the original creators of these shows. I’m told. That it’s disrespectful of me to draw what I’m drawing. That it’s, um, that I am going to hell, that I’m a paedophile – I hear that a lot. [laughs]

DJ: A lot of normal, standard sort of fare, er, fanworks get that sort of talk too so it’s not just you.

Tripp: No, it’s not just me, and I honestly think that if you look at the body of my work you can really tell, um, if you can stand to look at the body of my work [DJ laughs] I really love the characters. To me I am not disrespecting the characters because it’s not just porn. Which, there’s nothing wrong with just porn, but when I see, you know pick your fandom, let’s say Phineas and Ferb. You know I have seen porn of, let’s say, the parents on the show, or whatever, two characters having sex.

DJ: [says something inaudible under the last part of Tripp’s previous comment]

Tripp: Yeah, or whoever. Where it really just is like, I don’t want to say dirty, but really there’s no, there’s no underlying message, there’s no humour, there’s no…

DJ: It’s just porn for the sake of porn.

Tripp: Yeah. They’re just personified and sexualised and that’s it. And if that’s what you want to look at and that’s what you want to draw that’s fine, but I think that, again not necessarily every single piece I draw, but I think if you look at the body of work it really is a celebration of, and a loving mockery of-

DJ: Because you truly love these cartoons too.

Tripp: I really do. Most of them. You know what I certainly have drawn some things where it’s like – you know I haven’t gone and drawn Barney getting assfucked by someone – you know what I mean? I can totally see…

DJ: Tellytubbies and, and, and My… Magic Ponies and all those you know…

Tripp: Yeah I can totally see… well I did draw actually, um…

DJ: There was this one time…

Tripp: There was this one time at bandcamp… where I draw Umbridge pegging, it was a My Little Pony but it was supposed to be Dumbledore’s Animagus… Animagus [pronounced two different ways]-

DJ: [laughing] Oh, god.

Tripp: Whatever it was it was a My Little Pony with a tear coming out of its eye and she was pegging it, with a big angry red dildo. Um… [laughs], so maybe that picture doesn’t portray my love of the characters.

DJ: But that was Umbridge, it was portraying your love of [something] Dumbledore.

Tripp: Or maybe, you know, Hagrid jerking off in the pumpkin patch-

DJ: Yeees.

Tripp: -you know, as a standalone.

DJ: Well that was just a brief moment in time.

Tripp: Everyone does it.

DJ: A vignette as it were.

Tripp: [laughs] You’re so Canadian, that just hurt.

DJ: Blame Canada, eh?

Tripp: But so I do get flamed occasionally that a. I shouldn’t be doing this with a children’s show, because they totally air it after I draw it, right? for kids, on PBS, and that b. you know if I ever do use an underage character, and again underage being, you know, 15 and up as opposed to like 5 and up, but I don’t really give a shit. Like, no shits are given.

DJ: So that’s your advice for anyone who decides they want to go over the proverbial edge?

Tripp: Sure, well I really think if you’re that thin skinned that maybe you should just, you know, be a lurker and not a participator.

DJ: Yeah.

Tripp: Because, even if you don’t do anything controversial you’re still going to get people who think you suck. And I-

DJ: Welcome to the internet.

Tripp: Yeah, welcome to life! You know what sometimes I do suck, and sometimes I suck really, really good! [both laugh] So it doesn’t bother me at all. So that would be my advice. If you like it and you want it: do it. You know, it also brings me a lot of joy, there are things that I don’t really care for that, um, you know like your request; I don’t particularly ship them, but I will have a really good time drawing them for you. You know what I mean? I will get enjoyment out of your potential enjoyment. And that’s a really great thing as an artist or a writer that you can gift people these things that make them happy.

DJ: Yes, you can pass the fandom goggles around.

Tripp: Yeah. I don’t know who needs goggles, but you know. It’s a wonderful gift. If you can give some sort of under-aged bestiality porn to a friend.

DJ: [laughs] With a platypus.

Tripp: With a platypus. It’s a beautiful gift to give, yes absolutely.

DJ: Yes, and it’s a unique gift too.

Tripp: [laughs] Yeah, it’s not something they’re going to get two of, you know, for Christmas.

DJ: No it’s not.

Tripp: It may get re-gifted, but they’ll have a hell of a time. [both laugh]

DJ: Re-gifted. You heard it here first. Listen, Tripp, thanks so much to coming to talk to us today for Slashcast Episode 41, the Fandom Goggles version. Slashing inappropriate characters for the lulz. I couldn’t think of anyone better to call upon when the time came for this interview, so I really appreciate you taking the time and giving me a call in the middle of your snowstorm to umm, to come and talk to me today.

Tripp: Well I am honoured that I was the only person that would do it. I’m honoured to be on the list of one.

DJ: [laughs] List of only one.

Tripp: Yes, it’s a prestigious and lonely list.

DJ: No, that’s awesome, thank you so much.

Tripp: Alrighty, well, you’re welcome.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 42: LGBT News Transcript

2013-07-01T23:49:39Z

LGBT 42 Transcript

LGBT News Transcript
Host: angelbabe_cj

Caroline: Hi and welcome to this month’s LGBT news update, I’m angelbabe_cj. We’ve just reached the end of Pride season in a lot of places and I hope you all had a fantastic time with that, but there’s quite a lot of news to get through so let’s get right onto that.

First of all: Marriage Equality update. Importantly the US Supreme Court has made two important announcements about marriage equality issues. In the final day of the current session they announced they voted 5-4 to strike down the Defense of Marriage Act, also known as DOMA. This means that all married couples can claim the same federal benefits. As Justice Anthony Kennedy said quote "Doma writes inequality into the entire United States Code," unquote. Which, well, exactly. Thank fuck sensible heads prevailed. Seriously this is an amazing step, it means that everybody in states which have marriage equality gets exactly the same rights just as they should do.

The Supreme Court also dismissed the Prop 8 case from California. Following the State of California’s refusal to continue defending the law the Supreme Court refused to rule because the private party who took up the cause had no right defend the constitutionality of a law. This means that the lower court’s ruling stands and Prop 8 is therefore struck down and California rejoins the states that have marriage equality. Yes, right with those benefits DOMA being struck down brings.

Speaking of marriage equality, Rhode Island, Delaware and Minnesota have become the 10th, 11th and 12th states to legalise marriage equality, in addition to Washington DC. Unfortunately efforts in Illinois didn’t come to the vote by the end of the legislative session.

UK House of Lords approve the UK same sex marriage bill for the next stage of lawmaking. It has now been passed in principal by both houses, but still needs to pass through three more stages in the upper house before both houses consider and vote on each other’s amendments and it can be sent for Royal Assent- isn’t that a wonderful rhyme? Er, it’s still possible the bill might break down but with a large majority in both houses at this stage it looks fairly unlikely. I have my fingers crossed.

Votes in favour of marriage equality have also passed in France, New Zealand, and Uruguay and will all be effective by mid-August. And if you have 90 seconds to spare check out the spontaneous outburst of a Maori love song when the New Zealand count is announced. There’s a link in the Post Show Post for that one, it’s really beautiful.

Okay moving on to other news the American Medical Association voted to oppose the FDAs ban on blood donations from gay men. The ban started in 1983 during the AIDS outbreak, when nothing was known about the disease. The AMA board members are calling for policies which actually reflect current scientific research. This is a nice thing to hear, of course, but it’s not like the FDA policy has changed yet and gay men are still not currently allowed to donate blood.

Exodus International, a Christian Ministry, which led part of the so-called ex-gay movement has closed its doors and the president has apologised extensively for his actions which have caused pain and suffering to so many people. He has said that although his beliefs about the bible and sex and marriage have not changed he has adopted something which is basically a live and let-live attitude, which is amazing news. This is on the heels, of course, of California’s ban for ex-gay therapy for under 18s, a similar ban is being voted on in New Jersey.

A UK-based Muslim group, the Inclusive Mosque Initiative, wants to open mosques which are open to LGBT people. It’s a small group, but it’s a part of a growing global community with similar values. There are mosques of this type in several other countries.

Bisexual writer Basil Papademos won the award for Bisexual Erotic fiction at the Bisexual Book Awards, and packed his prizewinning statue at the top of his bag, was then arrested by the Canadian Border Police when they checked his bags as he crossed into the country. He was actually held for eight hours and interrogated while his laptop and phone were seized to be searched by apparently obscenity detecting software. Thankfully the civil rights lawyer who was called from Legal Aid managed to cite many broken regulations and rules and his property was returned to him within 48 hours, and no charges were brought.

Now, in really horrible news Russia is taking the final steps towards a law which bans the quote ‘propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations’ unquote. It will prevent providing information to minors about LGBT people, well actually LGBT anything, and the holding of pride rallies. The lower house of the Russian parliament with a vote of 436 to 0, and it’s expected to pass the upper house and on to President Putin with ease. Homosexuality isn’t a criminal offense in Russia, talking about it soon might be. Which, wow. Seriously, fuck that shit. There are several different petitions online that you can check out and go and sign, there is a link in the Post Show Post. Please, I urge you to go and try and do your bit.

Wook ranted, er talked, last episode about the Arizona bill targeting trans people using public restrooms which match their gender identity the sponsor of the bill says that he has given up on the bill for this legislative session. Which is a start. If only we could get him to do it for good.

Nevada Governor has signed in a hate crimes bill protecting trans people, it says a person’s gender identity or expression can be among motivations which are interpreted as a hate crime. Which basically means they have a huge amount of extra protections under hate crimes legislation, which is fantastic news. I hope more states follow their example soon.

Now, Boy Scouts of America have voted to allow gay scouts, but not gay leaders. Which, I- I have no words. No, that’s a lie, I have quite a lot of words and most of them are pretty angry. I think it’s fantastic that they’re now allowing gay members under the age of 18 because the movement provides amazing opportunities for people. But I think the continued ban on queer adults is utter bullshit. Great you’re now allowing all of these previously barred young men and women to join your organisation, but who do they look up to? I’m not saying they can’t have straight role models because take it from me queer people can and do, but it’s important to give people a range of role models and someone you can identify with as having an experience like you would be so much better. Also what the fuck happens to the young scout who comes out at 15 and is part of the movement and continues to be for three more happy years until he gets told he has to leave? Seriously you put all this effort into doing amazing things for these people and then throw them out on their ear? Fuck that shit! Seriously, I cannot work out what message you’re trying to send out to people, but it’s sure as hell not one I like.

In sad news activist Laura Aguilar, one of the first people to obtain a Gender ID change under Argentina’s Gender Identity Law was murdered in what appears to have been a relationship quarrel. Fellow activists are mourning her and her history-making role.

Since our last episode came out so did the first male in a major US sports league. Kind of old news by now, but although players in various leagues have come out after their careers have ended NBA star Jason Collins is the first to do so whilst he’s still an active player. His coming out essay in Sports Illustrated is well worth a read, and is really touching. There’s a link in the Post Show Post that shows him marching at Boston Pride and it also links to that essay.

And finally, did you see Samantha Bee of the Daily Show take on evangelical Christians who think their freedom to express their bigotry towards LGBT people is being infringed upon? No? Well, you should go and take a look. Her takedown is impressive. And if you can’t see the video we have the gifset on our tumblr.

That’s it for the news, and if there’s anything we’ve missed out on you want us to talk about, please, as always, let us know.

Actually here's a quick update since we had to postpone the episode being released. Just an addition to a couple of the items.

The same-sex marriage bill in the UK is passed and the Queen has signed it into law. The Churches of England and Wales are legally prohibited from performing same-sex marriages, but other religious institutions can opt-in as they wish, and I know some are going to do so. The first weddings are not expected to be until sometime next year but it's fantastic news. I am so happy.

And in absolutely shitty, fucking awful news the anti-LGBT bill in Russia. It passed, it's in force and the stories and the news that's coming out of Russia is really terrifying, LGBT families and people are fleeing the country and there are all sorts of reports of charities and support groups which are being fined and shut down and please try and look this up and see if you can do anything, anything at all. 'Cause we need to get this stopped.

And that's it, um, hopefully the rest of the episode is a little bit cheerier for you.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 39: Metachat

2013-05-14T18:01:34Z

Metachat Transcript for Episode 39

Hosts: wook77, tripperfunster, fiona_fawkes starduchess

Wook: Hello and welcome to slashcast metachat, I’m wook77 and I’m sitting here with fiona_fawkes, tripperfunster, and starduchess to discuss sex and romance, sex versus romance and all that it entails. Why don’t you guys take a second and introduce yourselves for everybody?

tripperfunster: My name is tripperfunster and I am primarily an artist and sometimes writer in a few different fandoms. I started out in Harry Potter fandom, mostly as a Snarry shipper but have spread my wings to Star Trek and Grimm and Phineas and Ferb and at the moment primarily obsessed with the Avengers.

fiona_fawkes: I’m fiona_fawkes and I am primarily reader, reccer little bit of a community writer. Currently I am involved in Sherlock fandom, little bit of dabbling in Merlin and my original start was way back in Harry Potter. And back there I moderated the community hpslashnotsmut.

starduchess: Hi I’m starduchess, I am mostly a writer and reader and sometimes do beta work as well. Started off a long time ago with the Legend of Zelda in different web rings and that led to fanfiction.net where I found a few the other things I liked especially Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets and Voltron Golion which I loved as a kid and then from there into Harry Potter which is where I am now.

Wook: Ok. So Fiona mention hpslashnotsmut which is one on my favourite communities ever. So lets launch based on that into our discussion. Is sex necessary for you to enjoy a piece of fiction or a piece of artwork?

fiona_fawkes: That’s a pretty easy answer for me, I’m gonna say no. It’s a nice additive in some cases but in no way am I going to read or not read something based on whether there is explicit content.

starduchess: I’d agree that, I can’t say that’s not a yes or no answer for me. I don’t necessarily need to have it all fic and there is a lot of great stories that zip so there’s no sex whatsoever Im very fine with Gen fic. And then on the other hand if it’s a very romantic story and you get to the end and there’s not even a sign of sex at all you are just sort of left a little disappointed. Even if it’s not explicit it would a sighting. And writing in some respects romance is eventually leading to the sex and that’s why you have romance. So if it’s not even a possibility I think it’s a little bit of a let down to people.

tripperfunster: I would say for me, I do read some Gen fic but mostly when it’s either an author that I know and love or it’s been recced by somebody that I know and love. For me I’m more interested in the relationships and generally the sexual relationships, though I don’t necessarily need the sex in the fic, I need more of the promise of sex, the unresolved sexual tension, the budding romance of getting over the obstacles that stand between them and getting together. And again it’s always a little disappointing when it fades to black but it’s still acceptable. For my fic (laughs).

Wook: Yeah and for me it's not vitally necessary. What I find a lot of the time is that sex becomes a crutch. Its a cop out for building a really believable romance, a lot of authors will just toss in a sex scene and that is supposed to make you buy the romance and I ship a lot of rivalry pairings, Harry/draco and that sort of thing, and for me throwing in a sex scene doesn't make it believable. You know, otherwise that's just hate sex. For me I don’t necessarily need it and some of the times it actually just completely throws me out of the fic and ruins my enjoyment of it.

starduchess: Something that bugs me in fics, it seems like a lot of the times sex is used as a cover for bad writing. And so when there is lack of content have them give a blowjob and that suddenly makes it ok and to me it just feels really worthless if there not enough story there.

tripperfunster: I agree. I tend to also ship either the rivalry pairings or the pairings where the people have a lot of work to go through before they could actually believably be together. And whenever they get together too quickly, I mean again I don't mind if it's an established relationship fic, but for me I'm much more of a first time, I wanna see how it builds, I wanna see how they get to the point they can have that relationship and have it be believable and I totally agree with wook in that if they get together too quickly or if they don't even address the things that have kept them apart it's a back button for me for sure.

Wook: And I even find that with the friendship pairings as well. Like Seamus/Dean how do you get them from being best friends since they were 11 to suddenly having sex. You have to have something in there to switch it and I guess I would sort of buy it if it was a random pairing like if two people that have never met and have no previous components or relationships, I guess I can kind of see that as a way of getting them together, I mean I do know people that started a one night stand and now they've been married for ten years. So I can see that with perfect strangers but if there is some sort of relationship in canon I want a reason why they are changing their relationship in canon.

tripperfunster: I was going to say one of my favourite tropes, speaking of sex, is either the like the 'sex or die' or 'the aliens made them do it' or the 'sex pollen' or whatever, it is sometimes fun to have a fic where the two people that don't get along are forced to, or a forced marriage or whatever, sometimes it's great when the sex is at the beginning but under duress and then, you know they find a way to work out the differences that they have and generally in most of those fics there is some sort of attraction to begin with and they never admit it cause they don’t get along but it's kind of a fun way to do that backward, in that the fic often starts out with them having sex but they have to kind of work out all those details later.

starduchess: Again that's about plot, that's about reason.

tripperfunster: Oh absolutely there needs to be a reason for it, for sure. I mean there still has to be, I'm not a big fan of whatever PWP formula or whatever, not that I never read them. But it doesn't, you know what I mean, I'm not a virgin I can just go have sex if that's all i'm interested reading or looking at, I'm much more interested in a plot or the dynamics of a relationship than I am in A goes into B.

fiona_fawkes: Something that kind of get round my head lately is, I'm a big proponent of gay rights through (inadible) and I am in a gay relationship myself and I dont not so much (inudibile) make changes or change legislation I want it to be normal, normal people who happen to be hooked up with people of the same gender in the story. And so for me what got me going on hpslashnotsmut, it seemed to be that people were so obsessed with slash with sex, it’s like people were forgetting that gay characters had lives and gay people have lives that revolved around things other than what they do with their genitals and so for me it was a big (inaudible) to encourage people to sort out the rest of the story and not just focus on gay people are different because they have sex with different things.

Wook: Well especially cause that is a harmful stereotype of the LGBT community, is that they are all just out there poking their dicks into whatever they can get. I mean to put it bluntly right. I mean that’s one of the things that's used that's thrown in their face everytime they want to legislate anything they immediate are like, well they just a bunch of horny people.

fiona_fawkes: Perverts yeah.

Wook: Yeah they are going to get whatever they can, so I think you make a really great valid point Fiona. Which kind of actually launches us into the next discussion point. Gen vs. Gen. do you think there is a lot of communication or lack of interpretation for a gen fic where there is no romantic pairing, vs a gen rated fic where there is a romantic pairing?

fiona_fawkes: For me there is no real confusion about that. I think .. (inaudible). Harry/Ron and it's rated G it's still slash, you know just because they may just hold hands and that's fine. Whereas if you had characters in your headers Harry, Ron then I automatic usually assume that it's a regular gen fic and there's no romance. I never had a problem between the two. And I figure... ( inaudile) and we thought about how do you rate something, how do you classify something and doing that for posting things online. But I'm betting that a lot of lurker and consumers in fandom that don't outside of the one place where they go and find fanfiction, they don't get involved in the community at all, I'm thinking a lot of them don't understand the difference. I would assume, I mean when I first heard about slash I thought it was like horror movie stuff. Cause to be slasher fic is like, you know like Friday 13th or something, and it certainly took me a while to navigate you know, pairing vs gen, I mean there is still stuff where i'm like Alpha, Omega, Delta what? Just a lot of sorority guys?

Wook: (laughs) that would be gender-bending! Yeah and it's kind of funny, they had a Teen Wolf fanfic contest, and Teen Wolf is a pretty young fandom and people were like OMG they are letting you have slash on there? But how do you slash with a rating of like PG13? Umm well... its easy! And I saw this one... I call it pit baiting. Basically you put something say Derek and Stiles for some Sterek cause that is the THE pairingright? Where it's clearly they have one conversation where it's not really them hooking up. But they put it because they have an interaction so of course that has to be one of the things listed and people are slowly losing that convention that slash means relationship and comma means interaction.

tripperfunster: I have pretty sound slash goggles and um you know to me most of the actual canon books and movies that I consume are to be considered pre-slash. where the people are actually getting together but I can either see or manufacture my own tension there. I am very happy to create a lot of what can be considered pre-slash fic, it might be buddy fic or whatever which has generally has a lot of, depending on the fandom of course, a lot of what the canon interactions would be but I can see the budding romance myself because I want to see it. But yeah like you were saying a lot of people don't think of slash as being a lower rating.

fiona_fawkes: I had somebody leave me a comment on a fic I posted recently, and it was long drawn out maybe PG13 in the relationship aspect of it and when they got to the end they didn't hook up, they just said that that's not the step they are going to take right now. And one of the comments said I would have loved this fic if it would have been slash, and I was like where have you been for the last 40,000 words? (laughs)

tripperfunster: Of course , I think it might harken back to the old, I mean a lot people feel you are not gay if yo haven't had sex with a person of the same sex. Like, I have a friend who considers herself bi who has never actually hooked up with another woman and I've had people tell her well then you are not really bi. I knew I was straight long before I has sex with a guy. I knew whatever turned my crank was whatever I was interested in. But perhaps with slash or gay fiction or whatever its the same totally effed up perception, if you don’t actually do it it's not real. I mean I don’t know if people know this but you can actually have sex with someone of the same sex as you and not be gay! You can actually maybe decide that wasn't what you know it would be or maybe wasn’t something to engage in again, it doesn't actually make you anything. Where you put your dick or your genitas doesn’t define you as a person.

Wook: And then you get into the discussion of asexual vs aromantic. You can be asexual and have the greatest romance of all time, you can be aromantic and be out there having as much sex as you want. So...

fiona_fawkes:: These are two different things completely, I agree. Oh that’s a fandom right there, I didnt realize that was a kink until i got into the Sherlock fandom and suddenly asexuality became a common story component. So it was actually fabulous a few people started to deal with that, slash fic where one of the partners is asexual entirely.

Wook: yeah and I mean I am not comfortable entirely with it being sort of a kink but it is nice to see it in fic, and I mean I don't think, I back button if I see asexualility as a warning like I back button if I see slash as a warning because to me those are not things you should have to warn for, those are things...

tripperfunster: They are components of the story they are not a trigger.

Wook: Right?

starduchess: but then is that the artist or writer not understanding a tagging system so well? and confusing the two, which especially on AO3 maybe if you wrote something in particular or in search of a particular category that deal with asexuality they are confusing warnings with categories.

tripperfunster: There are a lot of people our there who also confuse, like people who complain about warnings and tags, who confuse trigger with something I don’t like or something , I've heard people complain oh you didn’t warn for Buttom!Snape. and I’m like that's not a warning that’s a preference and if you don't like it it's not going to send you into a spiral of that time you were Buttom!Snape, that’s just something you don't like. I mean it could just be people who are putting all the warnings in that are heading all the whining snivelers that don’t know the difference between a warning and a preference.

fiona_fawkes: Something along the line trying to present kink in a way that will get absolutely the most readers possible and trying not to offend anybody.

starduchess: So this goes back to the idea the content vs language in the headers. Like for some people the content of BDSM (inaudible) enthusiasm like yeah I wanna click on that. That's me by the way! (laughs)

Wook: Speaking off, building off of Fiona's comment of getting read. Do you think that sex is necessary in fandom to get better reviews?

fiona_fawkes: not necessarily to get better reviews but certainly to get more. Personally i would trad…e (inaudible)

Wook: Cause sometimes I think that people to get established, to have those people who subscribe to them on AO3, to friend them, to follow them, they do use sex to get noticed, and I've noticed what happens is they slowly start going more towards plot rather than sex. and they take a few more ricks.

tripperfunster: I don't think that's necessarily premeditated. Like I’m gonna write lots of sex and get followers and then I'm gonna do other stuff. I think there's only so many ways you can have sex, and it's quite a few ways but it's really eventually somewhat limited unless you are going to get really freaky. And after a while as an artist of a writer I think after a while, hopefully you are going to evolve hanker for something more. Myself excluded from that (laughs) but I can’t imagine someone would, I mean I've had people complain oh i don’t get a lot of reviews because i don’t do anything above a PG and I'm quite sure that that's valid. But I've looked at lots of filthy stuff that's definitely not worth reviewing and didn't. I'm probably less likely to review something that's just smut. I might read it and enjoy it but its doesn't to me trigger out that 'Oh my god you had him say that , or I never saw that plot twist coming', it's not much of a plot twist if it's just sex.

starduchess: With regards to authors, that are growing up in fandom and starting as more pornographic writer and then moving on to something less basic than that it probably authors growing up and getting more comfortable as a writer and a fan and they are they are going to explore more plots. Though by default for most people more plot is going to include a little bit less sex, not all fics cause there are some very fabulous 80K word fics out there that have 6-7 sex scenes in a row and are well thought out and plotted I think as you are getting better at writing and writing longer things. I do see the opposite too sometimes people start out and they are very shy and they've never written anything above a PG and eventually you know spread their wings and end up writing higher ratings which is kind of fun to see. You know there is a writer right now I quite like in the Avengers fandom and she's, you know you can hear her squealing second-hand embarrassment as she writing the sex, cause she's written lots and it's all very good but she's just now getting into higher rating and its funny to see her squirm and be excited about.

Wook: So we've been talking about sex, romance, do you think a hardcore BDSM fic can have romance? Do you think romance can have really super kinky sex?

fiona_fawkes: Yes to both. From a real life perspective, I live in a part-time BDSM relationship and I don’t find that aromantic at all. Just like anything else you can have it completely cold and heartless and simple gratification and therefore the sexual gratification (inaudible) or it can be extremely thought out and sensual and emotional.

starduchess: I definitely agree that BDSM can have romance and be super kinky.

tripperfunster: I just read and I am not, I mean I like fic, I guess I’m not really into the lifestyle in the BDSM. It’s just really not my thing, I like a little spanking and a little tying to the bed kind of thing but the whole major roleplaying and stuff doesn’t do it for me, whatever your milage may vary, but I did read a really interesting, I guess especially interesting for me cause I’m not really into that whole genre so much, was a really tender after care fic that was in the Avengers between Steve and Tony, of just how the dom, I guess there is something called dom drop where afterwards you feel a little bit guilty that you hurt this person that you love deeply and you feel even worse because you enjoyed it and helping the sub get back on their feet so to speak and it was a really interesting dynamic between the two, it was a whole bunch of emotions that hadn’t even occurred to me, because most of the fic I’d read was more like a, more little light play a little spanking because you’re such a naughty boy kind of thing. As opposed to full on ‘I like to give up all power and I like it held up over me and kind of stuff. So it was a, in fact I don’t think there was any sex in it, it was just all the after stuff, after feelings and after shocks and all that kind of stuff and it was incredibly tender and very emotional short little fic that really opened my eyes to all sorts of scenarios I hadn’t even imaged.

fiona_fawkes: Exactly, there is that opportunity for bonding time.

tripperfunster: Bonding with bondage.

Wook: (laughs) That should be a bumper sticker! Well and I received a fic in a fest that was BDSM but there was no sex in it and the person didn’t understand why I considered it BDSM, and I was like, but you have a very obvious dominant and slave relationship in the fic and so, I think you can have the sort of kinky relationship without having sex as well, and I think it’s good as long as it has some sort of component to it where it shows me the relationship. Again your milage may vary but I’m not into the sort of fic where one person is getting embarrassed and harassed and upset by the other person. I’m not into hate sex either, I’m not into sort of power dynamic a lot of the times. But I do think you can have a BDSM fic without the sex in it as well. And speaking into the differences between porn and romance, what about shmoop and romance? Is there a difference?

tripperfunster: I am personally, I’d like to give you all my hate in shmoopy fic. My personal hate is kittens. I happen to personally love aninals and I have a cat of my own which I quite like and again your milage may vary I’m not saying people shouldn’t write these things but if there is a kitten. Like if Draco gets a kitten, how many Draco kitten fics are out there? Like 50K? It’s not even that I think that draco couldn’t love a kitten, I just don’t care to read about Draco getting a kitten and I think sometimes it’s a cheap way of getting someone to be caring and sweet, like show the softer side of a guy. If any, like Spock gets a kitten, if Captain America gets a kitten, I don’t care to me that just has shmoop on it and it doesn’t interest me. And again I’m not judging people that it does interest but it doesn’t interest me at all. Ok I’m totally judging people that it interests. And all your hatemail to tripperfunster.

fiona_fawkes: (inaudible) with shmoop there is not much seriousness in the fic and for me that’s a turn off. Ok yeah the kitten stuff ok next. And I’m an angsty person anyway in what I like to read and I want that more depth of character that doesn’t have much shmoop in it. Not that I don’t like it every once in a while, there are some really good ones out there too. But I think they all have a lot more plot in there too.

Wook: For me shmoop, ok so you can hate all your hate mail to Wook77 instead. Shmoop to me has this mental component, I know it’s not true but when I see shmoop as a warning as thing listed on the tags on AO3 I immediately go this is going to be full of OOC. Because I read a lot of pairings like Derek Hale, would Derek Hale really go cuckoo for cocoa puffs over a kitten? No, you know. So a lot of the time shmoop has this OOC bracing for me. But I’ve read some really great shmoopy fics out there which are a lot more romantic than a lot of romance with sex. A lot of them are really well written romance that focuses on the romantic moments instead. So we’ve talked about differences between shmoop and romance, BDSM, porn, what are some of your favourite tropes and conversely what are some tropes that drive you guys nuts?

starduchess: Ok well I’m a huge fun of the hook up. And so a lot of what I read is going to be either the developing or the changing of the relationship or overcoming whatever differences existing and coupled with all that a lot of unresolved sexual tension and so to me I want to have all of that, the what if, the ambiguity, you don’t know if they’re going to hook up and actually it disappoints me a little bit when things become easy and so when, those people are going to write happy endings in fandom it seems, you are going to spend 30K dancing around each other and it will get to the end and it will all be lovely so when I get to an author that gets to the end and doesn’t I’m always jumping up and down and yes you leave almost unsatisfied but then you are there thinking about that story for the next day or two and wondering the what if. And that’s what got us into it in the first place watching a TV show or reading a book and wondering what happens next so when a fanfic author can do that to me, you know mad props to them.

Wook: Yeah I’ll add one that drives me nuts because I’ve kind of alluded to it... healing cock. Healing cock drives me nuts. I hate it. I dislike it so much. Words cannot tell you enough of how much that drives me nuts. It’s such an awful trope and yet it’s there all the time.

tripperfunster: Even when it’s literal, like I’ve read some hilarious and somewhat hot Snape/Sirious fic where one of them gets poisoned and has to be like semen all over that for the antidote.

Wook: Sex-or-Die is different than healing cock to me. Sex-or-die, it can be fun, it has to sort of be rompish for me to believe it. Like it it's this uber serious sex-or-die thing, I’m kind of going really? REALLY? when it’s like, you know...

tripperfunster: When I've been raped and only having sex with you will save me from my rape feeling.

Wook: Exactly I mean face gets applied to palm all the time, and you know i keep reading thinking surely this better. What back button, I’m going to keep reading. It's one of the few that drives me nuts.

tripperfunster: I think for me, well we all know about my hatred of kittens. I really do like kittens though, really a lot and puppies. I guess for me it's anything, I mean I love to read fic where the characters are really stretched, where they are pushed to the limits, where we can really learn a lot about their characters and it's a fine line and not a remotely fine line from going to that just out of character. Like, I don't like seeing people... the difference is, I love putting a character in a situations the might never be in and seeing how they react as opposed to make a character act in a way they would never act in. You know like Spock is going to be Spock whether he gets a kitten or finds a child or is stranded in an alien planet and is fuck-or die. And I love seeing Spock react to all those things but I guess a lot of the shmoopier stuff tends to, the people who are writing it I guess want a different Spock and again that's fine for them. If the characters aren't acting the way that they are supposed to act that is a major back buttoner for me. And it goes into the thing that you talked about earlier Wook, about people having s too early when they haven’t worked through their issues. I guess it just really boils down to bad writing and in my experience a lot of the fic that I don’t like is more that I've read some fics that have bad writing with those tropes and it's just turned me off the tropes. I know you put out a kid fic I probably wouldn't read it. I've read a couple kind of by mistake that weren't labelled properly or the summary sucked me in anyway and I enjoyed them . But I would say overall it's not a trope I enjoy, it's probably from being burned by some bad writing early on and reading those tropes. Things that tend to really thrill me are, I wouldn’t necessarily say like Faux Yay fic, but stories that people really have to overcome some major personality obstacles or some history they have between them that they've got to work out are more interesting to me and generally stories that have a lot of UST where the people are forced to work together. Either they are stranded on a planet together or they've been kidnapped together, or they are forced to be in close contact with each other and really work through this feeling of not getting along or not liking each other for whatever reason, are the types of stories that turn my crank.

Wook: I love accidental bonding fic by the way, like that is one of my favourite trope scenario things where like two people walk through a door and then suddenly they can’t get more than 10 feet away from one another, especially with like Derek/Styles or Harry /Draco. Gosh I wish I could remember the Harry/Draco fic that I read when I was first getting into fandom on Fanfiction. net and I am going to go back and look for cause it's like on everybody’s rec list. Where it literally they walk through a doorway and then they are bonded. I love accidental bonding. I think it gives a lot of shenanigans, it gives them a lot of stuff to work through and they are forced to work through it and they are forced to work through it because if you absolutely hate the person you can't get more than 5 feet away from then two people are going to go into a room and only one is going to come out.

tripperfunster: It's like with forced marriage especially in the Harry Potter when it's like all the purebloods have to get married immediately blah blah blah that kind of thing. Again any way you are forcing people that dont like each other to work together, to be together, to be stuck in a small, I don't know if you’ve ever read RaeWhit's Oubliette where Snape and Harry get basically stuck in this little cement cave together for 4-5 days and one of them is injured and they have to work through a whole bunch of stuff and just being stuck together, it's fantastic.

fiona_fawkes: yeah I like forced bonding or forced marriage. My favourite trope is hurt/comfort especially being forced into a hurt/comfort situation where one has to take care of the other and that's all they have and eventually they have to work or else they are just going to kill each other.

tripperfunster: Oh yes hurt/comfort is my favourite. But not a healing cock, not the healing cock.

Wook: Yeah I was gonna say Hurt/conform is more likely to turn into shmoop rather than romance so I approach hurt/comfort with a lot of predication where I walk into it going oh god suddenly because he's like nurse maid they are going to get together and it's just because I’ve read so many bad fics with that but there are some really great one's out that I’m really glad I clicked on the link anyway just so I could get a chance to read it.
I do have one sort of serious question to address for us and that is: Is romance different for femslash vs slash? It's a tough one isn't it?

fiona_fawkes: I don’t know, I read so little femslash and I feel like a really bad lesbian saying that.

tripperfunster: that's it your L card is being taken away.

fiona_fawkes: Yeah i guess..

Wook: I am invalidating your marriage.

fiona_fawkes: Good luck with that! Oh gosh I guess from the moments I read from femslash it just sounds like they want more and less sex and I don’t know in some respects I guess the male slash is the (inaudible)

Wook: Yeah I’m going through tumbler cause there was actually a really great post about femslash and sort of the journey a female hero makes vs a male hero and how in a female hero story it’s about much the heroine can endure, how much loss she can endure vs a male hero the story is about how much can he win, how much he can succeed.

tripperfunster: I haven’t read a lot of femslash but I mean.. I could see, and it sort of it begs to be badly written but a lot of times with men and cause most slash is written by women, be it femslash or male slash, that you somehow manage to help the men find their emotions without feminising them. I could see and again I haven’t read a lot of femslash, I do enjoy the art I haven’t part of it is not enough strong, I wasn't into Xena, I haven’t really been in a fandom with plenty of female characters that are strong and interesting, I would say actually Avengers has the most interesting strongest females and even they don’t have their own movies they don’t have their own backstories as much as all the male characters unfortunately. But I could see if I was to write it or draw it my goal would be make the women stronger and more manly in those typical ways where a lot time the slash tries to make the men more romantic and almost in some way more feminine and I could see like you just said in some ways how much the woman can endure how tough she can be vs a lot of times with a lot of slash its just more how into his, aware of his own emotions the male characters can. Sometimes just getting over yourself and realizing you love somebody, just getting in touch with your emotions. I don’t know if that's true I just was totally talking out of my ass.

Wook: That's ok, I mean if you are going to talk out of anywhere you should probably talk out of your ass.

tripperfunster: I have a pretty good ass it might as well speak up.

Wook: And yet a good author makes you not care. I guess the whole chat is summed up with: If you are a great author I don't care if there is sex or not, I don't care about some of the details of your story I'm just going to enjoy the hell out if it. In a way thats what it seems to be. I don't know if you guys would agree with that.

tripperfunster: I would totally agree, although sometimes I would go out looking at summaries and stuff you know to get readers. Some of those things might make a difference to who even clicks at the story. But when it's well written absolutely.

Wook: And that is our metachat for Slashcast. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, feelings, thoughts anything on anything that we've talked about, feel free to leave us a comment on our website, on our LJ, our dreamwith, on tumblr or on twitter or anywhere else. thanks you so much for listening and thank you guys for participating.

Transcribed by imifos

Episode 41: LGBT News Transcript

2013-04-25T20:19:52Z

Ep 41 LGBT News Transcript

Host: wook77

Wook: I’m Wook77 with the news for Slashcast episode 41. The big news this month is that the US Supreme Court has heard arguments in two marriage equality cases. The first is the case about Proposition 8, the California law taking away the right to marry whomever a person chooses. Though there is hope that this will spread marriage equality to the rest of the US don’t your hopes up just yet because there are multiple ways that Prop 8 can be overturned. The first is that the Supreme Court decides that the defendants do not actually have the right to defend the law because they are not the official representation for the state of California, for those who don’t remember the Govenor and the California state Attorney General decided not to defend the proposition and instead the writers of the proposition stepped in. No legal expert of course, but from what I’ve been able to determine this means that it’s more of a procedural issue than anything else and does not translate to the other states that have marriage equality bans on the books. In addition because LGBT folks had the right to marry and Prop 8 took it away this unique position does not translate to the rest of the US because no other state had marriage equality before it was taken away; so another finding that finding that could keep this from enforcing marriage equality across the US. Best case scenario, of course, is that the US Supreme Court makes a sweeping statement on marriage equality, but I don’t really see that happening because I’m a bitter, pessimistic bitch, so hey, take that with a grain of salt.

The other case in front of the Supreme Court is the case addressing the inherent inequality enforced by DOMA, the Defence of Marriage Act for the national level, just in case you’re not obsessively following these cases this case is the one that President Obama and the US Attorney General decided to stop defending and the bigoted asshats in Congress decided to waste taxpayer dollars on it because, you know, feeding children is so much less important than stopping people getting married, so that’s what they wanted to spend their money on instead. In this case when one half of a lesbian couple married in Canada died her widow had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in inheritance taxes that heterosexual couples would not have to pay. This too could come down in a myriad of ways that do not force states to accept marriage equality so don’t get your hopes up simply because the US Supreme Court is hearing these cases, let’s remember that Scalia, Roberts and Thomas are a bunch of bigoted asshats who cloak their bullshit in a bunch of legalese.

What could be interesting, however, is that the fact that recently the Mexican Supreme Court decided that the ban on marriage equality is unconstitutional there in Oaxaca and referenced two US Supreme Court findings previously those of Loving v. State of Virginia, and Brown v. Board of Education.

Speaking of legal shenanigans it’s that time again: another Wook style rant. As quite a few people are aware I live in the crazy state of Arizona. I chose this state because, well, you don’t have to shovel sunshine. When the rest of the US is freezing their asses off I’m in the 70s, but I’m so fucking sick of having to apologise for living in a state because of the actions of one core outspoken and drunk-with-power assholes in the Phoenix area. For example SB 1070, otherwise known as the Show Me Your Papers law, you know the law that says it’s totally not invasive to ask for proof of US citizenship at basically any time. And of course it isn’t designed to affect primarily the Hispanic population here and was proposed by the dickface that thought speed cameras on the other hand, on the highway, were very intrusive and should be overturned and gotten rid of. And well, okay so SB 1070 is an awful law, but recently legislators decided it was time to step up their game and start insisting on people not only having to prove their US citizenship to be able to drive or do anything, but they’d have to show their birth certificates to use the bathroom. This bill, targeting transgender residents of Arizona, just left committee and it about to be debated on the floor. So to use the bathroom according to this law you would have to use the bathroom designated from your original birth certificate gender. So even if you were able to change the gender on your birth certificate it’s not good enough for these invasive motherfuckers, oh nooooo. So this is supposed to make people more uncomfortable in public restrooms, which: fuck that noise. At the risk of sounding like, you know, some of my best friends are, one of my best friends is transgender, he worked with me for over six years and no one, not a single motherfucking person other than myself and the director of HR ever knew. He’s had multiple surgeries and just because he was born with a uterus doesn’t mean that he looks like a woman, or that he is a woman. Somehow I’m thinking it’s more uncomfortable for a woman to be in the bathroom with him, than with a male to female transgender person who probably appears more feminine than a person with a lumberjack beard. That’s just my two cents however. I don’t know what’s worse: that this just made it out of committee at all, or that it did it even after activists demonstrated where these dickfaced asshole politicians could see their supposition is completely incorrect! I know that these politicians think that transgender people just want to play at being quote ‘the opposite sex’ end quote, but when they see that it’s just dressing up in women’s underwear that makes a male to female transgender person want to use the ladies room then I don’t even know what the fuck to do with these people other than maybe bash them upside the head until reason pours out of their brains. I think sometimes though that we’re so wrapped up in the fight for marriage equality that we forget that there are countless other rights that are just as important, like, say, the right to use the motherfucking bathroom without having to show your goddam birth certificate.

It’s all too common to forget there’s a B in LGBT, let alone the T too, it drives me nuts and to new heights of rants, so that’s my news, that’s my rant. If you agree, don’t agree, think I missed something, whatever, feel free to leave us a comment on our various social media sites.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 39: Writer's Corner transcript

2013-04-24T14:41:13Z

Ep 39 Writer’s Corner
Host: emmagrant01
Guests: Diana Copland and Kryptaria
Topic: Writing Romance

Transcriber note: the audio does skip in places but the missed words are mostly decipherable from context and partial sounds and have been included, where they are not obvious or the fill is a guess these have been noted in square brackets in the same manner as other asides such as laughter.

Emma: Welcome to the Slashcast Writer’s Corner, my name is Emma Grant and my guests today are Diana and Kryptaria and the topic we’re going to be writing about today is writing romance. So first I’m going to ask both of my guests to just introduce themselves and talk about how you began writing fanfic and what fandoms you’ve been involved in, and any other names that you’ve written under.

Kryptaria: Okay, I am Kryptaria, I am currently writing in Sherlock and the James Bond. I started, oh, a few years ago in Supernatural briefly, did a little bit there, did a little bit of fandom in Watchmen, but really I didn’t get into it until Sherlock. That was April of last year.

Diana: I write under oldenoughtoknowbetter (oldenough2nb) in fandom, and Diana Copland is my publishing name. I probably first started writing in about 2006, I’ve always been a Harry Potter girl. I started out writing some Gen and then read some phenomenal Harry/Draco writers and was lured into that part of the fandom and have basically been there ever since.

Emma: Cool. Well the topic of our discussion today, as I said, is writing romance. And so we’re going to talk about this both in terms of fanfiction and original fiction, since you guys have done both. But I want to start off by giving you the formal definition of romance, which this is actually from the Wikipedia entry but it’s pretty standard if you look for academic definitions of romance anywhere there’s a very standard definition which is that a romance is a kind story in which the plot centres around two, or – in the case of many fanfics – more than two [someone makes agreeing noise], people as a romantic relationship develops between them and generally the main cont- and generally the main conflict of the story of the story is some obstacle that the lovers have to overcome in order to be together. And then the final- and then one more element that romances typically have is that they have an emotionally satisfying end and/or an optimistic ending. And so if it’s bad ending, if somebody- if it doesn’t work out at the end or if it’s not optimistic in some way then it’s not a romance, it’s another kind of- it falls to another genre. So with that definition in mind I just wanted to ask each of you: what do you think is a good romance? What do you for look for when you’re reading a romance?

Kryptaria: Personally-

Diana: Go ahead.

Kryptaria: - I want a challenge. I want a challenge where the characters need to fight for their relationship. I want them to really earn their romance. I don’t want to see love at first sight, I want a believable relationship that grows from their first meeting and becomes something that neither of them expected to have. As anyone who’s read anything by me knows I absolutely love misunderstandings and conflicts, let them fight, let them argue, and then let them really work to get to an ending relationship.

Diana: I agree with all of that. I think that the difference maybe about what I write is that most of my conflicts are usually outside of the main pairing, so that they kind of have to work together to overcome something else. I don’t write a lot of fics where they’re at loggerheads, but that just is a personal preference.

Emma: And don’t you mostly write Harry/Draco?

Diana: I do, actually, now that’s all I write in fandom.

Emma: And you write Harry/Draco where they’re not, like, constantly at loggerheads, as you say?

Diana: I do actually, because I think there’s enough of it. I tend to write them a little older.

Emma: Uh huh.

Diana: So my hope is by the time they’re in their mid-20s/early-30s that part of their relationship would be behind them, or they would have outgrown the need to do that. That I think there are a lot of people who do it very well, where they’re fighting when they’re in their late teens and early-20s, and they come to an understanding of what that fighting is really indicating. Rather than they really hate each other is that they’re dawn toward each other and so I tend to take it in a different direction; which is probably why original fiction works so well for me because even though my characters are name Harry and Draco occasionally they look more like somebody else. [laughs, Emma joins in] I kind of… yeah they don’t fight a lot in my stories, obviously.

Emma: So Kara, are your- you said that your conflicts mostly arise from misunderstandings and miscommunications with the characters so it, the conflict tend to be between the two people or do you also use the tool of outside conflict?

Kryptaria: Oh absolutely. Outside conflict, I mean: Mycroft. [Emma laughs] Right there you have a wealth of outside conflict. Um, I love exploring the characters, so any challenge I can put even an individual character through whether it’s a character fighting his own inner demons, or fighting to preserve a relationship against outside odds, or even in the case of Sherlock – let’s face it Sherlock’s not a nice person – so falling in love with Sherlock is kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. [Emma chuckles] So trying to develop a relationship with him you’re fighting against him. So any conflict, anything that can add depth to the story and make the reader really invested in cheering for the pairing: that’s what I go for.

Emma: Would you guys say that most of what you’ve written has been romance, or have you written in other genres?

Kryptaria: For me definitely not. But since I tend not to write much in the way of general fiction there’s almost always a romantic relationship aspect to it. And I don’t write relationship fics which have an unhappy ending. I can’t bring myself to write a death fic, I don’t like fics where at the end the pairing breaks up, or they never get together, or they walk away. I want a happy fic because, you know, fics are my way of escaping the real world. And I like a happy escape. But the romance has to grow naturally whether it’s on the framework of a mystery, for example, or a case fic or something bigger. So for me it’s just not always focussed on romance.

Diana: I guess that I would say that that’s what I do too, although in my own mind I’m not – my agent describes me as being a romance writer and I’m very comfortable with that label.

Emma: You know it’s interesting because before I really kind of dug into – about a year ago I started to dig into this idea of what romance is – and prior to that I would have never said that I write romance because, I mean the kind of thing that Kara was saying is that, or actually what both of you were saying, I write there’s like some kind of a mystery to be solved and so the mystery, solving the mystery is what brings the characters together and what ultimately kind of becomes the vehicle towards pushing them to having a relationship, but of course it follows all the other aspects of romance. And you might think there’s some conflict that they have to overcome in their relationship to get together at the end and there’s always a happy ending – like you guys I love happy endings – but, so I suppose that you know I didn’t think that I wrote romance, but you know – and again my background is not in English or in Literature or anything like that -

Diana: Right.

Emma: - but there’s an aspect of romance in almost everything that I’ve ever written, and it sounds like you guys are saying kind of the same thing. That there’s always that focus on the relationship somehow.

Diana: Well I think it’s one thing as human beings that we all sort of have in common. Is that either we have a romance or we want a romance, or we’ve had a cruddy romance I mean I think that it’s a unifying factor and it’s something that in one way or another everybody aspires to have, so I think that kind of brings everyone into the story from the same place. You know what I mean? It’s like everybody wants to be in love [Emma chuckles], and so that helps in terms of bringing a reader in.

Kryptaria: And really a good story, since it’s going to have a relationship of the relationships between people you’re going to have friendship or bromance if nothing else, so really where’s the line between what John and Sherlock have in the BBC show versus what we write? It might just be whether or not they take off their pants.

Emma: [laughing] Yeah.

Diana: Err, there you go. Sounds reasonable to me.

Kryptaria: You could argue that BBC Sherlock is a romance.

Emma: And many people have argued that, including some of the actors involved in the show.

Kryptaria: Exactly.

Emma: So you hear a lot of criticism about romance as a genre, it’s kind of dismissed as chick lit among other things, but one of the big criticisms that you often hear is that romance is too predictable because you basically know how the story’s going to end before you ever begin reading. You know that it’s going to have some kind of a happy or optimistic ending and yet we love to read them. I think women, just making a vast generalisation here, romance is typically written by women for women, which is not completely accurate, but generally. So why do you think it is that we love this genre even though it does have this predictability, it does have this kind of formula that it follows?

Diana: Because it doesn’t.

Emma: Mmm. Exactly.

Diana: No I think that’s an inaccurate assessment. Number one in terms of market stability it’s enormous, the romance industry is huge, so clearly whoever is criticising it has a bone to pick with it, and a lot of people don’t share that, but no two people fall in love the same way. So it may be predictable in terms of the outcome, at least we hope it is, but in terms for what it takes for them to get there it’s not predictable at all.

Kryptaria: Fifteen years ago I had somebody who tried to get me into writing romance and she gave me a formula: by chapter two this had to happen, by chapter 4 this had to happen. But that’s not how it’s done now. Now you can take the journey to the ending, to that happy couple ending. And you can go anywhere on the map you want. You don’t have to follow the formula of they kiss by chapter two, there is conflict, they don’t say I love you until chapter four, whatever, you can go any way you want and a good romance will get you in by showing you really well written characters who are struggling whether it’s against each other or together against the world. Um and they’re fighting for something and the reward at the end is that they’ve learned to love each other, they’ve learned to respect each other, they’ve learned that the love they had back in chapter one is worth fighting for and that’s what’s really engaging.

Diana: I agree. And I also think that sometimes, and I think we’re finding this in a lot of literature now, sometimes formulas are there simply to be upended by someone who doesn’t use a formula. I was told once the same kind of thing. There’s rules, and there’s the formula, and there’s storybuilding and you should be doing this, and you should be doing that and it’s all nonsense. What you have to do is be able to write full- full blooded, full bodied characters that readers are going to care about and then you manoeuver the situation, but this whole formula to writing a successful romance, I don’t believe that’s true at all.

Emma: So this is actually a really good point and I remember about a decade ago when I was considering, considering this idea of writing, of publishing something, but did not write like anyone in the industry, but I was told by people who had done, who had published who basically said basically 'you’re not going to be happy because you have to follow formula xyz’, kind of what Kara was just describing, you know this has to happen by chapter two, this has to happen by chapter four, and that if you try to write outside of that no one is going to publish you. Now obviously that’s changed, ‘cause I was also being told that if you try to write male/male romance no one’s going to publish that. That’s obviously very different now. [Noise of agreement from Diana] Yeah, exactly. So why do you think it changed, what happened?

Kryptaria: I was told that, what, a week, two weeks ago?

Emma: Oh really?

Diana: [over Kryptaria] That you couldn’t publish male/male?

Kryptaria: You will hate genre- no, no, no, I was told that I would hate genre romance because it was a formula, it’s not real writing. And it was kind of an uncomfortable conversation.

Diana: Who said that?!

Kryptaria: I’m not throwing out names.

Diana: Oh, okay I didn’t mean names. I just mean was this someone from the industry or was this…

Kryptaria: Somebody with a little bit of industry experience, but it wasn’t romance industry experience, it was publishing in general, and I think that even in publishing outside of a romance publishing house there is still that stereotype. There’s still that ‘oh every romance is predictable, every romance follows a formula’, because look at the, look at the covers, half the covers are the same exact thing. [Emma chuckles] You know.

Diana: Now to be fair half the books are formulamatic, they are.

Kryptaria: Right.

Diana:. They’re not all that way, but a lot of them are.

Kryptaria: Exactly. The other half, that’s where the good romance is.

Diana: Don’t you think it’s generational? I really do. I mean, and that’s because I have an eighty-five year old mother who also reads romance and she’s, she’s one of those formula gals. You know she’ll go buy the same cover and-

Kryptaria: Definitely.

Diana: -kind of the same plot because this is where her comfort level is. And then you start getting into the younger age bracket and they’re not so concerned with the comfort level and I think it’s that’s where you see this changing.

Kryptaria: I completely agree. It’s definitely a new market. There are readers out there who don’t want the formula. They want the moulds to be broken.

Diana: Yup. And also this whole, I think that the whole e-book revolution has also shaken the history in a lot of ways because now it’s instant reading. And I also think that there are some well-known, established organisations that are made up of romance writers that are having a little trouble keeping up and I think that it’s a very interesting time to be in the industry.

Emma: Do you think that, that the popularity of fanfiction in the last decade, and the ease of access of fanfiction in the last decade has had an impact on this? For example, as I said, about a decade ago I knew people who were writing, who would write slash, and then who were writing, like, het romance on the professional side, and basically said there’s no market for male/male romance. And obviously there’s a market now, and the market is very similar demographically to the people who read slash online. So do you think there’s been some kind of an impact there from fandom, or is it too simple to say that?

Diana: Yes. I think the impact of fandom can’t be, especially right now, especially given the success of Fifty Shades of Grey.

Emma: Oh god, yeah.

Diana: I don’t think that you can underestimate the impact of the difference that’s made. I, I’m not a fan of the books, I’ve never read the books, my daughter read the books but they were awful and- but what it has done is made publishers take a look at people who have a background in writing fanfiction and where at one time they might have dismissed them out of hand they can’t do that anymore. This thing’s a juggernaut, they can’t ignore it, and for that I thank her.

Kryptaria: That’s exactly what happened to me. I actually got contacted by a publishing company, by my editor, because of a slash romance I wrote, and she wants that exact story, just with one of the characters female, scrubbed of all of the show references, and she doesn’t want me to change anything. And again this goes back to breaking the formula, my romance that I published doesn’t follow the formula at all.

Diana: Yeah.

Kryptaria: And, but yet that’s exactly what she wants, and yeah it’s my highest hit story. It was a phenomenal success.

Diana: They’re going out looking for those, that’s the whole point

Kryptaria: Yep.

Diana: . Because after E.L. James with her 250,000 hits online they’re out looking for the writers of those stories. Absolutely. My agent I met through fanfiction. She was my very first beta, ever. If people are writing fanfiction, and are successful at writing fanfiction, and are interested in having a career in publishing there’s no better time than now.

Kryptaria: Yup.

Emma: That’s really interesting. And we’re actually going to come back to that point a little bit later. We talked little bit about sort of writing outside of the formula so how do you do that? What kinds of, what kinds of things do you guys do when you write romance that sort of breaks that formula, how do you make it not sort of predictable and clichéd?

Kryptaria: I specifically target the clichés. My two big romances are Northwest Passage and The Master of Latham Hall. Northwest Passage doesn’t start as a romance, it starts with two strangers who develop a physical attraction, so it gets into the bed before there’s even a hint of real romance. Yeah there’s respect and there’s friendship, but the romance comes much later, and nobody says I love you until we’re almost at the end of the book. I think it’s chapter twenty four or twenty five.

Emma: That’s actually quite typical of slash fanfiction, historically that there’s, the romance is not traditional, it’s not typical, it’s not what you would find in sort of the formulaic bodice-ripper harlequin type novel. And that, I’ve heard people say this before, that the ‘I love you’s don’t come until the very end. Like, it’s almost like there’s like a reverse of the formula, that often, it’s very often very common for sex to come first before there’s never necessarily emotions involved, and the emotions grow kind of through the sexual activity, and there’s not really that ‘I love you’, if it happens at all it doesn’t happen until the very end; which is kind of turning everything upside down a little bit.

Diana: I think that has everything to do with the fact you’re not writing a traditional male/female couple, you’re writing men. I just had this conversation two days ago, that for men, and I have a lot of really close friends, for men sex is much easier. The committing of ‘I love you’ to anyone, let alone to another man, I think they find that, maybe it’s more meaningful, but they’re slower to do that. The sex is easy, the love is harder, so I think when you’re writing that dynamic, when you’re writing a slash dynamic you have to take into consideration you’re not writing a man and a woman, you’re writing two men. And whether we want to admit it or not men do tend to process things different than women do. I think anyone that’s been married will say yes, that’s true. [Emma chuckles] And I- so I think that trying to remember what you’re doing is writing two men and not trying to make one of them the woman is a big key toward writing the genre successfully at all.

Emma: Now I think that’s a really good point, that one of the things that slash is very good at, and maybe that this is one of the reasons why a lot of people who now right male/male erotic romance, or male/male romance professionally came from fandom is because there is this tradition in fandom of writing about men in ways that don’t necessarily map onto that, on to the heterosexual relationship. I mean for obvious reasons.

Diana: You’d hope so.

Emma: Yeah. [laughs] But I think that for a lot of us who are a lot of us who are attracted to slash we actually like that, we like that it’s different, and we like that it’s a twist of the standard formula. It’s really interesting that that’s something that’s becoming so popular now, and is breaking the mould.

Diana: But I also think that we have a lot of writers in fandom and it’s great, because it’s this way for everybody to sort of test their wings and to try it out, to see if people, you know, you throw it up and see if anybody bites or salutes or whatever. But I also think you’ll find what you get in fanfiction is kind of a microcosm of readers in general and that is if the way you write works in fandom there’s a pretty good chance the way you write is gonna work in publishing. If you have writers that feminise either character, or if it starts to take the path of a traditional romance, at least for me as a writer I notice the response isn’t there. And then you get someone who has, I don’t know, this little hook that pulls people along, that is different enough, and then you get a feel for their voice then you see that that can transition into original fiction too.

Kryptaria: Well the nice thing about writing fanfic in general is that you automatically have a potential reader base. As soon as you pick a fandom you can start posting all sorts of diverse stories, I mean I’ve got, I’ve got stories about everything from real, serious, heavy angst, to BDSM, to were-velociraptors.

Emma: [laughs] Wow.

Kryptaria: Seriously, and I have people, I have people who’ve read all of them and their feedback helps me learn to be a writer, because they say ‘wow your humour really actually worked’, or ‘I liked how you did this’, or ‘I didn’t like how you did that’, and ‘please never try this again’. [Diana laughs] Because I can, I can really spread my wings, I can try out all sorts of new things without having to go through the pain of sending my manuscript to publishers and talking to my agent about thirty different writing styles, you know you can take the same characters and dump them into any AU you want from High School to Science Fiction, so yeah writing fanfic is a fantastic way to just learn to be a writer.

Emma: It’s like the world’s largest writing group, right? I mean…

Kryptaria: Absolutely!

Diana: I could not agree more, I absolutely could not agree more. And they’re so- the people who read are so generous with their feedback. And it’s stuff of what’s so funny about the generalisation about fanfiction not being for serious writers. The writers I know who are serious writers I met in fandom. I think it’s a great way to start, I think it’s a great way to learn and to grow. I’m doing a rewrite right now on a book that was published for me three years ago, and the writer I was then and the writer I am now, after having being in contact with a couple of really good editors, there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s always a growing process [Emma makes noise of agreement] there’s no regret in it.

Emma: So since this is Slashcast, obviously we’re interested in focussing this discussion on same sex romances, do you, would you approach writing heterosexual romance differently than a male/male or a female/female romance?

Kryptaria: For me it’s more freeing to write same sex than het. I’m not putting myself into the position of one of the characters if I’m writing male/male. There’s no socially expected power dynamic. You can’t automatically look at a couple and say oh he’s the one who’s going to decide what they do, where they go whatever. And that is prevalent in romance, even the stuff that breaks the mould.

Diana: I don’t think there’s any way to Mary Sue a slash. I really don’t. I think that that’s almost impossible.

Kryptaria: I think that you’d have to try really hard.

Diana: Really hard.

Kryptaria: So you break out of gender stereotypes, and while you can Mary Sue, you can have a character who resembles the author even if it is a male character it becomes, it becomes the author’s choice not something defined by gender. And it’s that gender definition that completely turned me off reading romance novels twenty years ago. The first time I picked one up I read it and my first reaction was ‘this is crap, I would never act like this idiot woman’.

Diana: I agree.

Kryptaria: I have very rarely found a romance novel where I could say, ‘wow yeah, okay I could see myself doing what she did’. And it’s so-

Diana: I think there are one or two writers who do it well, I have to say, although I think that they’ve even now become formulas of their own formula. Initially I think Nora Roberts did a really good job of writing women who weren’t obnoxious, and then I think that Jennifer Cruise writes a really good, strong female character, but yeah a lot of, especially the older gals who are writing the bodice rippers.

Kryptaria: And that’s the great thing about writing same sex romance. You can have a same sex romance bodice ripper.

Diana: Sure.

Kryptaria: And I think it would actually be kind of amusing to see.

Diana: Hilarious.

Kryptaria: But yeah most of the same sex romance that you’re going to get you have two, two people who start out on equal footing in society and in terms of expectations, of behaviour, of how they’ve been raised. And yes you can push outside of that, and like some of my favourite fics are the ones where Sherlock is asexual but he still gets into a romantic relationship with John. I think those are wonderful. So it lets you push boundaries much more than het.

Emma: Yeah that’s absolutely something that appealed to me about slash from the very beginning, that you take off that layer of societal expectations, of gender roles and you can just think about almost an idealised relationship between two human beings. You know, just that everything that they bring to the relationship you take away those, you know, the gender expectations and you can, it’s a more pure way of thinking about what relationships can be. Most people who are reading and writing fanfiction, slash fanfiction, are you know either women, or they are people who are queer, or they’re people who are transgender, or they’re somehow people who are disempowered in a way that they’re kind of driven to take the source material and transform it into something that works for them, that appeals to them. And so there’s something really powerful about if you are, if you come from sort of not a privileged group, you know, not one of the top privilege groups in society let’s say, if you’re not coming from a privileged background it’s really interesting to take, to take these two characters who are in a position of privilege and think about how to kind of remake them in the way that you would want them to be remade. So there’s this idea that women read and write male/male romance are trying to redefine what it means to be male, they’re kind of redefining masculinity in a way that is more appealing to them. So that’s like another argument about why people are interested in this. You know-

Diana: It’s also sexy. It is, it’s sexy. [Emma laughs] Seriously, if you watch, not for anything, but, you know, research. If you watch gay porn, and I have watched some in my day, they’re all beautiful. That’s the other thing. It’s like there’s, for women I think there’s this, I think it’s so much easier to root for one of two men in a male/male relationship. It’s like rather than putting themselves in the position of the woman because when you’re reading, I don’t care who you are, when you’re reading traditional romance and you’re a woman then I think there’s a sense of that.

Emma: Right.

Diana: And this way there isn’t. Even for the reader I think it’s very freeing in that regard.

Kryptaria: I think a lot of male/male slash writers, and I can’t speak to the female/female because I generally don’t read those, a lot of them write their characters as people not males, [Emma makes noise of agreement] if that makes any sense?

Emma: Yes absolutely. When people talk about Fifty Shades of Grey, I mean there’s a lot of women who had never read erotic romance, I mean they had read, you know, the heaving bosoms and the throbbing members and you know that kind of stuff [someone laughs over Emma’s words] that’s right, but they had never really read, let’s say for the sake of argument, was kinky. I won’t get into what was going on with the sex in that book, but I think there were a lot of women for whom it was kind of like many of us when we first discovered fandom and we first read our explicit slash and we went ‘[huge gasp] oh my god’, you know and then you kind of go ‘oh, okay’. The idea, I think there’s this idea that, especially in slash, when you have a sex scene between two men you’re able to kind of come at it a bit more objectively, because like we were saying before, you’re not- you’re not putting yourself in the position, necessarily of one of the characters just, you know, by the virtue of sharing parts, you know, sharing bits with them.

Diana: Sure.

Emma: But it becomes, it becomes a safe space for exploring sexuality. I never thought that I would ever be interested in reading BDSM, but a few years into fandom…[Emma laughs] shut [someone laughs] up right? I mean there’s all sorts of things like that, and even, I think, you know, this idea of thinking about non-con or, even you know heavier kind, you know really heavy kink, these are things that become especially safe to explore when it’s not, you’re not sharing a body with one of the participants and so you take away all those gender roles and things but you also, you can distance it from yourself enough that you can enjoy it in a way that’s not quite so personal, if that makes any sense?

Diana: I have to just say real quick in defence of Harlequin, because the publisher I’m working with now is an offshoot of Harlequin, they’ve got all these different publishing titles, these different, like, umbrellas [audio skips, probably says Harlequin or Harlequin Publishing] as a whole is like this enormous company and they’ve got all of these genres and they were one of the first to develop an entire e-book area for slash fiction, which is what we do. So I mean they’ve got some young, pretty hip people working for them now, which is a great thing. I also think that from the standpoint of non-con which is something I just can’t bring myself to write, I just, I understand that people really enjoy that in some instances but I think that some of the original books that gave women permission to enjoy the sex scenes were so non-con. I don’t know if you’ve ever read or heard of an author named Kathleen Woodiwiss, she wrote a whole series of books and I, when I was high school and college it was like the 70s and 80s, her stuff was so non-con it was crazy. And these women who fall in love with their rapists themes, I just think that that was one that kind of allowed women to read sex to begin with because they had no control over it, [Emma makes agreeing noise] but I think that’s evolved so much to the point where now, women who read romance now it isn’t permission to read sex, it’s ooh that’s kinky. So I think that there’s a whole different setup with it now than there used to be.

Kryptaria: I think it’s kind of interesting, the decision on whether to put an explicit sex scene or a fade to black, that’s one that I kind of enjoy playing with because inevitably from my betas, awful beta team who keep wanting me to go explicit, and I love them for it because I might chicken out without them. So I think that writers and readers are going for a higher level of sophistication, not just throwing in a sex scene for the sake of a sex scene, unless you’re writing Porn Without Plot, I think that they’re actually enjoying well-placed sex scenes that fit with the narrative.

Emma: Right. I like to, I like to joke that, ‘cause I write a lot of sex scenes and [laughs], I joke that I write porn but really I mean it’s like the sex scenes are really quite important to what I do, but I often like to joke that like with every sort of thing that I need to happen in the story I always ask myself ‘can I do it with a sex scene?’, like they could sit in a coffee shop and drink a cup of a coffee and have this conversation that gets them from point A to point EB, or they could have sex. And if it’s possible to do it through sex then I do, I joke, I mean that’s not completely true but that’s kind of my joke. But yeah that idea that sex scenes, I mean definitely that they’re serving a purpose in the story, and they’re forwarding the story in some way they’re not just there – if you can take the sex scene out and the story doesn’t change you don’t need it, right? – but I definitely agree with that. And I just try to do it with sex as often as possible.

Diana: There’s nothing wrong with that.

Emma: Nope. [laughs] I don’t think so.

Diana: I think for me, because my books don’t have a lot of sex, they have a lot of UST, we have a lot of build-up, which is why I don’t fade to black because I think people would shoot me [laughter] by the time we get there I don’t think that would be fair at all. But that I think that for me I’m not sure there’s a lot of plot forwarding going on during the sex, other than what’s being forwarded is the relationship, and therefore that propels the plot into a different place, so that’s kind of how I look at it.

Emma: Well we’re going to start to wrap up our conversation now, but before we do I’m going to ask you guys to recommend to our listeners a really great romance. What’s the best romance fanfic that you’ve ever read?

Kryptaria: I’m gonna go with MadLori’s Performance in a Leading Role.

Emma: Oh yeah.

Kryptaria: That’s the earliest that I read in the Sherlock fandom and my first thought was ‘this is something that could be published, this is really something that could reach beyond fandom’, it was beautifully written and I’d have to say my only criticism was she didn’t throw in what happened to them in Sydney. I’m reading one chapter I come to the end and then it skips and it jarred me out of it. But I was so into it, just from the first words and, you know, screaming for their romance to, to… them to get together, watching them struggle it was just beautiful.

Emma: Definitely. That’s definitely a classic in the Sherlock fandom, and we’ll link to that in our post-show-post so people can go and read it. For people who aren’t in the Sherlock fandom I think this is a story that you could read without- you don’t need to be in the fandom, you don’t need to know who these characters are it works on its own. It’s a really kind of a perfect AU in that sense, but the basic story is that you have these two actors who are both essentially straight male actors and they do a film together and over the course of the film they fall in love and so it’s the story’s about sort of the idea of coming out in Hollywood and what that means, and how that impacts their careers, and sort of what happens and how their relationship comes together. It’s beautiful, highly recommend it. So, Diana, do you have a recommendation?

Diana: I do and it’s not a multi-chapter fic, and it’s not real long. It’s one of the first ones I read that pulled me into this fandom. It’s called Under the Ivy by CoffeeJunkii.

Emma: Oooh. [recognition] Ohh, uh huh.

Diana:It is, it’s about 7 or 8 k, it’s not a long one, but what it did in those seven or eight thousand words, um, Harry has come out of the war with, it’s a profound disability where he can think something but what he says with his mouth isn’t the right word. And I think even now having a parent who’s going through this this speaks to me even more, because watching the frustration my Dad has trying to communicate, Harry has an incredible amount of frustration trying to communicate. Hermione is doing what Hermione does; which is sitting him at the table and going [audio skips]with the spoon and wanting him to talk, and she doesn’t recognise what she’s doing to him by treating him like he’s a pre-schooler and he can’t communicate that. And then Draco is brought, Draco has spell damage from the war, has a right side that is profoundly compromised and the muscles lock up and, you know, he can’t walk sometimes, and so he’s brought… and you know they’re all living at Grimmauld because had given the house to Remus, and so Remus is alive in this story. And what these two people go through to come to the place where they tr[audio skips] to love each other she does it so masterfully in such a few number of words. But, like, my favourite scene is of them sitting at the breakfast table and Harry is trying to explain what he wants and he’s saying ‘cold’, ‘Great Hall’ and finally Draco says ‘oh, I think Harry would like some pumpkin juice’, and he pours it and Harry was like ‘yeah that was it’, and so yeah it’s, like, poignant and heart-breaking and beautiful. Anyone who wants to write romance should go read it about two characters who aren’t perfect, and who find something to love in each other anyway. It just broke my heart, and I adore it.

Emma: Oh that’s fantastic. We’ll link to that one as well, so people can see that one. Um, and finally, what advice do you guys have for people who want to write better romance, either original fiction, or fanfiction?

Kryptaria: Well I have two pieces of advice and the first is write. And I mean write, write more, keep writing, don’t worry about the specific words just keep going because the more you write, the more your brain learns to create, the more you can write. And then the second piece is to make it believable. For fanfiction just because a huge portion of the fanbase ship character A and B it doesn’t mean that we’re going to believe anything you do to throw them together. We don’t necessarily want to read another love at first sight instant happy ending. Make it believable, give them trials and misunderstandings and flaws, and make them earn them earn their romance.

Diana: I would agree with all of that. I think that writing is essential if you want to be a writer. I would say that the other thing that is essential if you want to be a good writer is to read.

Emma: Oh yeah.

Diana: I think that writing, writing, writing is great and do a lot of writing. I also do a lot of reading. And I think that reading people who write your genre is important. I am reading, right now, my genre written by men. So illuminating [laughter], I am learning so much, the difference between how men write the genre is enormous. Because I think the biggest compliment we get as writers who are writing slash is when a man says to you ‘yeah, that works’. ‘Oh, thank you’, you know, especially if a gay man says that to you. Um, but I think you’ve got to read a lot of different writers, and then you find your own voice within the voices of others. I think that’s really true. I also think that you need to know your characters, it’s absolutely vital. I don’t think that necessarily means you need to write a whole extensive life history for each one of them and, you know, but I do think you need to know how they’re going to respond in a conversation, know how they’re going to react to outside stimuli, whatever it is that happens to them, you know what that gut-level reaction’s going to be or it won’t be believable.

Emma: Great advice. Well thank you both so much for taking the time to talk to me today.

Diana: This was great, I learned a lot.

Emma: Thank you.

Diana: There’s some fics I should be reading.

Emma: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that’s it for this Writer’s Corner for Slashcast. If you have any questions or comments about anything we’ve talked about, anything that you’ve heard here that you want to respond to please leave a comment on our post-show-post on livejournal or you can leave us an ask on tumblr, or you can email us at islashdoyou at gmail dot com. Thank you.

Transcript by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 40: Pimp My Fandom Transcript

2013-04-02T13:53:53Z

Ep 40 PMF Transcript

Host: elanorofcastile
Guest: Jen aka astudyinfic

Fandom: Bond/Q (James Bond: Skyfall)

ElanorofCastile: Welcome to the Pimp My Fandom segment for episode 40 of Slashcast. This is your fabulous ElanoroCastile chiming in and this month we’ve got, er, Jen also known as Astudyinfic talking about the fabulous pairing of Bond and Q from Skyfall. So welcome, Jen.

Jen: Thank you.

EoC: Alright! So: Skyfall. Yay!

Jen: Yay!

EoC: So, let’s see. How about we do just do a little quick rundown on the 411 on what Skyfall is.

Jen: Okay. Skyfall is, I believe, the 24th um James Bond movie just recently released back in November. And it involves Daniel Craig as James Bond and he’s doing his thing saving the world, this time from a rogue MI6 agent named, er Raoul Silva, and yeah, that’s pretty much… he does his Bond thing and of course there is our beloved Q who is there with not as interesting a gadgets as Bond would like, but he’s always there to help him out when needed. So.

EoC: Awesome.

Jen: Pretty much it.

EoC: Yeah, and the bonus is it’s now out on DVD. I know that I haven’t had a chance to watch through and play with all the extras-

Jen: Yeah.

EoC: - there’s bound to be some, some more fun stuff in there. So we know that, kind of the vague ship, and the one that we’re going to mostly talk about is Bond and Q, but are there any other, kind of, parings in the fandom?

Jen: Well there’s two canon pairings from the movie which are both, um, James Bond and Severine who is one of the Bond girls, I guess you could call her, who actually works for the bad guy. And then there’s Bond and Eve Moneypenny who is another MI6 agent. But then outside of canon there’s also the 00Silva pairing, which is Bond and the bad guy, Raoul Silva [EoC makes agreeing sound]. And there’s actually some hints… there’s more hints at that probably than 00Qin the film, so that is actually also a pretty big pairing, in the fandom.

EoC: Mmhmm. Well, and I mean Javier Bardem, you can’t go wrong. [laughs]

Jen: Exactly.

EoC: With different fandoms comes different sorts of, kind of, activity locations, umm some older fandoms are more, like, livejournal or fanfiction.net focussed, but how about Skyfall? Where does it kind of live on the internet?

Jen: Well most from most of my experience it’s mostly on tumblr. There are a couple bl- er, yeah blogs I guess on livejournal, and I know that livejournal is actually hosting a 00Q big bang writing contest right now.

EoC: Oooh.

Jen: Yes. Er, 15,000 words in five months, so it’ll be interesting. But yeah it’s mostly on tumblr from what I can tell. It’s a pretty small fandom compared to some of the other ones on that website, but it’s definitely growing.

EoC: Cool. Yeah. Well and with the er, you know and with the big long history of James Bond, as well, behind it leaves for an interesting- interesting different opportunities.

Jen: Yeah. And then the actor who played who played um Q, Ben Wishaw, he actually had another major movie come out at the same time, and in that one he’s actually in a gay relationship which gives all sorts of fun gifs that can be carried over into the 00Q because by a happy coincidence the actor he’s in a relationship with looks a lot like Daniel Craig. So we’ve been having a lot of fun with that.

EoC: Great. Oh, yeah and that was Cloud Atlas, right?

Jen: Yes, Cloud Atlas.

EoC: Oh, yes I have not seen that one yet, it is-

Jen: Yeah, it never made it to my part of the world so I’m hoping it will come out on DVD soon so I can actually see it.

EoC: For sure, for sure. So with things kind of, you know, centralised more or less around tumblr and then some different communities on LJ and some on AO3 what are some of the good, um, gateway, like introduction to the pairing sorts of fics that you would think would be great recommendations? Or other, like, communities, people who do photosets, or that sort of stuff?

Jen: Yeah. Yeah, um well I love fic, it is kind of my bread and butter when it comes to fandom, so I… it took me a long time to even come up with a small enough list so I’m not taking up all of your time [EoC laughs], cause there’s just so much good stuff out there and we may be a small fandom but I feel like we’re really talented because everything is just amazing as far as I’m concerned. But if you only read one fic my personal all-time favourite is called The Sheer Lack of Professionalism, in which Q gets kidnapped and is just horrified by how unorganised his kidnappers are. [EoC laughs] And it is just, it’s a short fic, it is, take the fifteen minutes and read it, it makes me so happy. I’ve read it at least a dozen times, it is amazing.

EoC: Awesome.

Jen: So, um, yeah. If you’re also looking at fights I guess I should warn you that I really love fluffy fics. Happy. I don’t do dark, so that definitely taints my opinions on fics; so, you will notice a lot of these are rather fluffy and happy. Another one would be Prowl by professorfangirl, um this one’s basically a Plot What Plot, but it’s terrifically written I would highly recommend it to everyone. Um, yeah, I don’t know what else to say about that one. [EoC laughs] Go read it. It’s great. It’s also a short one, and there is a second part which is significantly longer, but Prowl can be read on its own without needing to go on if you don’t want. So, um, if you want more, to include more of the other Skyfall characters I’d recommend Thursday Nights, which is basically where James Bond, Q, Eve Moneypenny and Bill Tanner who’s MI6’s chief of staff basically get together every Thursday night and play games, eat food, and gossip and it’s amazing, and fun, and just adorable, and poor Eve and Bill having to put up with James and Q is just pretty hilarious. [EoC laughs] Um, if you’re looking for a longer one I’d recommend The Firewall Series. It’s actually an alternate universe.

EoC: Oh, okay.

Jen: Where they still work at MI6, they still have their same jobs, however they have superpowers.

EoC: Hey! That’s pretty smart.

Jen: Q is a technopath who can control technology with his mind, and I won’t actually say what James is because it’s kind of a big plot point.

EoC: Ahh.

Jen: So, but yes, so if you’re- it’s a series. I think there’s five or six parts at the moment and it’s still growing, so definitely look into that one. And then my final one would be Gunpowder Grey and Flashes of White by oldamongdreams.

EoC: Uh huh.

Jen: And in that one Q sees sounds as colours.

EoC: Oh yes.

Jen: Which sounds interesting, but- So he sees- So each person he interacts with he associates a colour with them: with their voice, with the way their shoes sound on the tile, and it’s an interesting take on James and Q getting together with Q having this extra ability which James doesn’t quite understand.

EoC: Mhmm. And that one’s a crossover too, right?

Jen: I believe so, yes. It’s been a while since I read it. I think it’s a Bondlock crossover.

EoC: Yeah. Well and that’s, that’d definitely be a, an interesting bit to crossover since they technically do live in, in modern London.

Jen: Yes. And Q very much looks like a young Sherlock Holmes.

EoC: Oh for sure.

Jen: I have written several Bondlock fics myself, there’s a Bondlock tumblr.

EoC: Uh huh.

Jen: Bondlocksettogo, or something like that, I’d have to look it up.

EoC: Cool.

Jen: But yeah, Bondlock itself is actually its own fandom as well, where either Q is the younger Holmes, or John and Sherlock’s son depending on who’s writing and how they wanna do that.

EoC: Cool.

Jen: Unfortunately I’m not very up on artists but I would like to promote ShipImala on tumblr.

EoC: Mmhmm.

Jen: She does, um, photo and gif sets and she’s done over 120 00Q gifsets.

EoC: Wow.

Jen: And they are all linked right off of her front page and they are amazing. Some of them are in universe, some of them are AUs, I find ‘em really inspiring for writing because they’re just pictures and a couple of lines and you can take it however you want and it’s just- they’re- I suggest looking at them because they’re gorgeous.

EoC: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve really started to truly, really dig photosets and gifsets, you know? Because it’s like [happy sigh], you know? It gives everything and I’m like ‘I don’t have time to write this but oh man I really hope someone does’, so you follow it.

Jen: Yeah. Exactly.

EoC: You watch the talent.

Jen: There have been some really good fics that have come from her gifsets, so, um, yeah and she usually links – actually I’m just assuming it’s a she, I’m pretty sure it’s a woman behind the blog, but um – she links to the fics if somebody writes one about it so that’s another way to get into the, to reading these stories.

EoC: Cool.

Jen: Yeah.

EoC: Well, great. Hey. And, you know, definitely we will have links for these up all on our post-show-post, so be sure to check ‘em out, they are pretty exciting looking. I know I have actually started to read [laughs] the Firewall series. I haven’t gotten very far in, but it’s been good so far, so hey.

Jen: Yup.

EoC: So, let’s see. So I guess, er, is there anything else maybe, about the fandom or whatever pairing that, er, you wanna kind of handwave about, or share with us?

Jen: Well another neat thing about it is that this fandom and pairing is very active in the tumblr roleplaying community.

EoC: Okay.

Jen: It’s actually… I run into tumblr roleplayers that are Q, or James, or even the other characters on a daily basis. I’m actually involved with that as well. And it’s just, it’s a good time, and it’s so fun because Q only gets about fifteen minutes of screen time in the movie.

EoC: [laughs] Uh huh.

Jen: So we don’t actually get whole lot of character development with him so it’s interesting to see how everyone has their own take on who he is and how he got to be in such a high position at MI6 so quickly.

EoC: Uh huh.

Jen: So it’s fun to read and learn about everyone else’s take on this, ‘cause everyone knows James Bond, but not everyone knows the Quartermaster behind James Bond, so.

EoC: Exactly. Exactly. Fun. Yea I know that I’ve seen, I guess, it’s always exciting to see what sort of things develop out of different sorts of, kind of, online communities or whatever, and the different, like, ask commun- Ask tumblrs.

Jen: Oh yes.

EoC: And things like that are really fun, and the creativity that people can put into it is just astounding.

Jen: Yes.

EoC: I’ve seen a few that it’s like, they do, er, like videos of themselves in cosplay as the characters and things, so…

Jen: Yah.

EoC: It’s an interesting phenomena.

Jen: Yeah. I haven’t actually seen a whole lot of, um, 00Q fan, er cosplay yet, however I do have one of my friends making me a scarf that looks like Q’s sweater. So I’m just very excited.

EoC: Oh my god. That’ll be so much fun.

Jen: I’ll be wearing that every day if I can.

EoC: [chuckling] Excellent.

Jen: Yes.

EoC: Well great, and thank you, Jen for talking with me today about Bond and Q, and Skyfall fandom. And if anyone out there would like to pimp your fandom on Slashcast feel free to leave a comment on the post show post at any of our different sites: tumblr, Livejournal, our website, Dreamwidth, all over the place. Or you can email us at islashdoyou @ gmail.com. Thanks for listening!

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 40: LGBT News Transcript

2013-03-30T00:41:26Z

Episode 40 LGBT News Transcript
Host: wook77

Wook: I’m Wook77 with the news for Slashcast Episode 40. We’ve got a lot of random news for this month. For example the AP shows how remarkably with the times and non-judgemental they are by banning the use of the words husband and/or wife for people in same-sex relationships. Instead, even if they are actually considered married by an actual state with an actual marriage license the AP has decreed that they know more than any other person in the goddam world and dictated that their journalists use the world partner instead. So, fuck you kindly, AP.

A case we talked about a few months ago has had a sad occurrence, Charlie Morgan a female soldier with stage 4 breast cancer has died, under DOMA her legally wed widow will not receive benefits. Charlie was hoping to hold on long enough so that her wife – hey see what I did there, AP, wife – would get survivor benefits just like those in heterosexual marriages would automatically. The date for the hearings by the Supreme Court is set for March, and the Supreme Court will still hear the case even though Charlie has passed.

Marco Macmillian, an openly gay black mayoral candidate in Mississippi has been found dead along the banks of the Mississippi River. According to his family he was dragged, beaten and then burned before his body was dumped, however the Sheriff’s department has decided that there will be no hate crime investigation into his death. I’m sure that this comes as a shock to… exactly no one. The have arrested somebody who stole his vehicle and part of the murder.

The former Boy Scout Jamboree headliner and opener Carly Rae Jepsen joins the band Train, who was the closing band, in turning down participation in the event because of the Boy Scouts’ anti-LGBT policies. Hooray for both of them. Unlike the NatGeo channel which is hosting an ‘Are You Tougher than a Boyscout?’ bullshit TV show. I think the obvious answer to that is hell fucking yes any gay child is tougher than a Boyscout considering what they go through just to be themselves openly.

The You Can Play initiative started by Brandon Burke turned a year old, this organisation’s mission and message is simple: If you can play, you can play. It’s been approved at every sports level from high schools to professional sports and the NHL, the NBA, the NFL, professional soccer and more. It’s even got Teen Wolf sport Lacrosse as support.

Meanwhile in the wake of the recent suicide/dead girlfriend/internet/ I-only-talked-to-her-a-couple-of-times-but-it-was-actually-somebody-else-and-it-was-a-dude-and-whatever rocking Notre Dame the NFL has had recruiters asking prospective players if they’re gay. Thankfully though the NFL is actually investigating this to see whether it’s happening, which: duh, and has promised to put a stop to it, which: yay!

Clive Davis acknowledged that he is bisexual and has been in a committed relationship with a man for the past few years.

But at the most recent Grammys Chris Brown proved yet again that he is a douchbag of epic douchbaggery proportions when he refused to stand and applaud Frank Ocean as he won a Grammy. Personally at first I was really excited because it looked like Adele was chastising him for being a dickface but alas and woe Adele was actually asking to have her photo taken with him and got along really well with him, the fucking dickface. So I’m sort of extremely disappointed in Adele.

You’ll be glad though that the dinosaurs that hate gay people have a new advocate, an extremely outspoken one. Al Quaeda has decried the White House filing of a brief against Proposition 8. You know you’re in the right when Al Quaeda espouses the same beliefs, am I right?! Or am I right?!

[This paragraph spoken in increasingly squee-laden voice] Okay, so if you’ve been listening for a while you know that Gambit and Wolverine were my first slash ship because hellooo hottt, and this was like way back when, like really oh my god I cannot believe how long I’ve been in fandom. So, well, in happy clap flailing, squeeing so loud that I could totally shatter glass at fifty yards because oh my god Wolverine in an upcoming issue of Extreme X-Men (issue 10 if you wanted to run out and get it, and who the hell doesn’t is what I want to know) will share a same-sex kiss with demigod Hercules, but by the by he’s holding a giant phallic symbol sword too, and it’s totally dripping with unknown liquid, so umm, yeah! Wooo. I’m like so excited for this, like you cannot even believe, and okay sure it’s not like the original one, you know the whole Hugh Jackman sort of one, it’s you know, like an alternate universe dude but who the fuck cares? It’s still Wolverine and he’s still in a same-sex kiss, which hoottt.

Anyway, so I’m just going to go ahead and end the news on that happy note, because I’m certain you’re gonna want to run out and take a look at it, which by the way it’s totally worth looking at. So that’s the news for episode 40 for Slashcast, if you have anything that I missed because my brain is totally mush over the fact of a gay Wolverine – oh my god gay Wolverine – please feel free to drop us a line at any of the million-and-one social media places we hang out.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 38: Insider Interview

2013-03-25T19:27:14Z

Episode 38 Interview Transcript
Host: emmagrant01
Guest: snacky

Emma: Welcome to the Slashcast Insider Interview, I’m Emma Grant and my guest today is Snacky, who is one of the mods of fandom_wank. And since this month’s episode is all about wank and wank in fandom and that kind of thing she’s gonna talk to us today about the fandom_wank community and basically everything you ever wanted to know about fandom_wank. So first of all thank you very much for being my guest today.

Snacky: Thank you for asking me, this’ll be fun.

Emma: And, er we’re speaking on the day of the apocalypse so-

Snacky: Right!

Emma: -hopefully that doesn’t actually come out.

Snacky: [laughs] Well, it would be a very nice wank if we created it for the apocalypse.

Emma: Exactly. Apocalypse wank.

Snacky: Yeah.

Emma: Well I’d like to start off just by asking you a little bit about yourself. How did you come to be in fandom?

Snacky: Um, in fandom? I think I was one of those people who, you know, my whole life I was fannish about things, but I wasn’t anywhere near a community or anything that I knew about. So by the time I got on the internet I was a bit older and I was googling something about – it wasn’t even google back then, I think it was yahoo or whatever it was the search engine – and I was googling something about comic books and I found fanfic and then I realised there was fandom. And that was how I sort of got involved from that.

Emma: Oh wow, and what was your first fandom online?

Snacky: Um probably X-Men comic books, was what I was looking for at the time when I had first found it. And from there I went on to a whole different – other ones, X-Files was probably the biggest one I was involved in, um, in the beginning, I was in that for a long time until the show ended and we all moved on and went our separate ways kind of thing. And from there it just branched out into other fandoms. I was involved in, like, Buffy fandom for a long time, Buffy, Angel, Joss-verse stuff I guess, Lost, Lord of the Rings, all those different things, Harry Potter I kind of dabbled in that, I was a big fan of the books and the movies although when we talk about wank, it kind of scared me from that fandom sometimes. [laughter]

Emma: That fandom was in so many ways and it was huge in its wank. So how did you first become involved in the fandom_wank community?

Snacky: When it first started on Livejournal, you know people were talking about it, ‘oh this community where people are making fun of us, making fun of fandom, can you believe it?’. And what was funny for me was, like I said I was in X-Files for a long time and there were some really wanky things that went down in that fandom, and I remember it was – a lot of it took place on usenet mailing lists back in those days – and I remember thinking all the time that I would be watching these big fights and battles and accusations of rigging fandom – fanfic awards and [Emma laughs] things like that and I’d be like ‘this is crazy, am I the only person who finds it really funny?’ and big like BNFs who would be, you know tell- dictating to rest of fandom how you should do this and how you should do that, and sneaky people who set up sock puppets and argued with themselves, and just caused really big flame wars and stuff. So when I saw fandom_wank I was like ‘that’s exactly what I’ve been thinking about, [both laugh] people think this is funny, it’s not just me’. So that’s how I started following it on livejournal, and that was- that was over 10 years ago now.

Emma: Oh wow. Yeah.

Snacky: Fandom_wank has been around for a while.

Emma: So for people who aren’t familiar with it how would you describe it? If someone in fandom out there, someone who’s like on tumblr, who’s never gotten onto LJ or any other site can you tell them, like, what fandom_wank is?

Snacky: I think, I mean, I think that’s a good question because there are a lot of people who wouldn’t know what it was now. Like just coming in from tumblr and things like that since fandom has gone off in so many different directions. Um, it’s a community [chuckles] of people, it’s not just one fandom it’s people from all over all walks of fandom, and it’s hosted on Journal Fen which is a Livejournal clone and it basically mocks the various absurdities of fandom, if I was gonna, kind of try and sum it up. And those absurdities could be anything from, like I said, BNFs dictating how fandom should run, or, you know, people sockpuppeting or pseudo-cide as you will, that kind of stuff. So it can be all kinds of things.

Emma: And I think you just said you can find it on Journal Fen these days, but actually I think if people, if you just google fandom wank you’ll find it.

Snacky: Yeah. It’ll pop right up. And, um, it’s a community, you know, um Journal Fen is a small livejournal clone, as I said, and it’s, you have to sign up for an account there. It’s not always easy, they don’t always have account creation on, and then people just join fandom_wank. I think we’re at like 6000 members, it would probably be more if account creation was on, but um it’s kind of slowed down its growth. It had its peak probably, you know, around Harry Potter peaking, kind of thing. It kind of went hand in hand with that fandom, I will say that. So people will post a wank, you know they’ll find something funny that they think is funny and they’ll post it to the community and then the community members will react to it, whether it’s laughing at it or mocking it in its own way, or saying ‘hey that was kind of interesting’ and you know moving on from there. That’s kind of how it operates.

Emma: So how did it get started? Do you know who started it and when?

Snacky: It started in, I think it was 2002 on livejournal and it was started by someone whose name was arcane156, and she still has an account on Journal Fen but livejournal deleted fandom_wank after a few months. It got shut down after people complained to livejournal abuse about harassment. And then she got her own account deleted because they said that she owned it so they deleted them and, um, I don’t know it was actually harassment, any harassment going on to be honest, I mean when I think about what goes on today in fandom in anon comms, on tumblr, and so on I think ‘wow it was pretty mild’ then.

Emma: Yeah. [both laugh]

Snacky: People didn’t want to be made fun of, and I understand that, but I don’t know that it was actually harassment, but maybe back then as a whole we as fandom were just really unused to being criticised. [both laugh] So after it was thrown off of LJ it went over to another livejournal clone which was called blurty, and I don’t even know if that’s still around. But fandom_wank was there for a while and I think that was kind of when I got more active in it. I think when it was on livejournal I had just been reading along, and then on blurty I sta- I remember commenting, and there was some really, we did have like um some wanky things that happened then. But again somebody complained and it got thrown off, all deleted, everything was lost. And so after, the people who own Journal Fen are fans themselves, as you might tell from the name journal fen. And they had been planning on opening that themselves, they also hosted I think it was Slash City [Emma makes sound of agreement], websites for people – slashers at the time – to do your own private website, that kind of web space. So they had planning on, I think, opening Journal Fen and when fandom_wank needed a home they kind of rushed into it and opened it and offered to host us. So we’ve been there, I looked this up, since March of 2003, so we’re coming up on the 10th anniversary on Journal Fen.

Emma: Oh wow. Is there anything planned for the 10th anniversary, or do you think it’ll just pass quietly?

Snacky: I don’t know. We used to do stuff like that a lot, like anniversaries and April Fools’ jokes and stuff like that and we kind of let it drop after a while. But we talked about it a little bit, some of the mods, so we might try and do something for the 10th anniversary. I’m not sure what, so stay tuned, because something might happen in March, but I’m not entirely sure. Maybe we’ll try and find wankers of great times past or something.

Emma: Oh wow. [laughs] Where are they now? Exactly.

Snacky: Exactly.

Emma: So for people who aren’t familiar with it, you’ve already talked a little bit actually, about how the community works so people just post stuff to it; but could you talk a little bit more about that? What do the moderators do? And what do the people who read and follow the journal – like take us through a typical wank.

Snacky: A typical wank. Well what will happen is, like I said, say you were in – we’ve mentioned Harry Potter fandom – you’re in Harry Potter fandom and say you found something where two people are like having sock puppet wars or something like that. Something weird was going on and people were getting very wanky or, you know, they weren’t enjoying themselves let’s say. But it still seemed kind of amusing and odd so they might take it to fandom_wank, and they would have to be a member to post. And then they would create a post writing up the situation and offering links to it is usually what happens. After that it gets submitted to a queue, um fandom_wank is moderated and really only because people used to submit - ‘cause they hated fandom_wank – they used to submit things like Eff you all over and over again in, like, 100 point, just to bring the servers down, which it would. So we started moderating the posts so that wouldn’t happen, any kind of abuse or just Eff you over and over again kind of thing. But for the most part we don’t really moderate anything beyond that, you know, we just let people decide what they want to post and if it doesn’t violate any of our major rules we let it go through. And then once it’s posted people will read it and they’ll probably follow the links and then they make comments on it and often discussion is started in the comments, maybe about fandom topic, whatever they were talking about , or sometimes they’re laughing, and sometimes they go off on tangents. So the community all have their own thing they are there for, it’s a pretty big community, and people are all there for something different. Sometimes people are there just because they want to read what’s going on in fandom and the fandom gossip, although I will say fandom_wank is a lot quieter these days than it used to be, so it’s not quite that hub that it used to be.

Emma: Oh yeah, and we’re going to come back to that subject here in a little bit. I mean would you say there’s a particular philosophy that fandom_wank has toward fandom, or towards what it does, or is it just kind of a free-for-all? I don’t know.

Snacky: [laughing] This is one of the things I brought to the other moderators, and one of them said ‘it really frightens me to think that we have a purpose.’ [both laugh] But I think, you know, on our info page on JournalFen it says ‘because we think “Fandom is Fucking Funny” is not taking it far enough’. So, um, I think that, and that’s kind of an old joke that really came out of Livejournal when it was still back then, because people would say ‘oh, you think fandom’s fucking funny, but this is taking it too far’, but no, it wasn’t taking it far enough. [laugh] And, um, you know we would, the other thing we used to say was ‘mock, mock, mockity, mock’ because that’s what we were there to do. So, um, I think if we have a philosophy that’s probably it. We’re just here to laugh.

Emma: So is there anything that would be off-limits? Like is there a point, like are there subjects or are there things that if it came up the moderators would step in and say no?

Snacky: Yeah, we’ve had to reject some posts. The main things are we don’t wank minors because they’re not allowed on JournalFen, the owners of JournalFen did not want it to be opened up to minors for reasons of their own, because they felt it was an adult website, you know, and they didn’t want to have to answer to parents if the case came down to it. So we don’t wank people who are under 18 if we know about that, and if we find out that somebody is we’ll delete that if it’s gone through. There are some people who were banned from JournalFen by the JournalFen owners and we don’t wank them, I don’t really want to start listing names-

Emma: Right, of course.

Snacky: There’s more than one. I know there’s one that people always think, ‘oh yes, that person’ and um, but there’s quite a few actually, I think, over the years it has come up. And there are some times where the JournalFen admins will ask us, it’s been very rare, but they’ll ask us to delete a post for certain reasons and we’ll do something like that. Non fandom topics aren’t allowed. One thing about fandom_wank it kind of splintered off into a whole bunch of other comms, so there’s like, otf_wank for things that weren’t part of fandom, and then there were specific other wanky things I think the Harry Potter stuff at one point fed to a comm we called the hp_cornfield [Emma laughs] because it was just so overwhelming. But for the most part there isn’t a lot that’s off topic, like I said we try to keep things that aren’t funny, and I don’t mean like that’s just a matter of perspective, you know like some people will say ‘that’s not funny that’s my friend being wanked’, but that’s not what I mean, like one time we had to delete a post about a murder-suicide shooting, and that was really not anything we were ever going to p- let go through, because that’s not – like I said we don’t really have a purpose or a philosophy but that would, if we had one that would definitely not be what it was.

Emma: Right so it sounds like as long as it’s all in sort of the spirit of, you know, mocking ridiculousness in fandom then it’s fine but when it crosses the line to things that could actually cause people actual harm then yeah…

Snacky: And you know people’s mileage varies on that.

Emma: Sure.

Snacky: A lot of people have thought what we put up is not funny [chuckles] um, but you know that’s where we let that lie fast and loose I think. It’s only when it’s only when it’s really demonstrated, either it’s very clear to us ahead of time that that’s going to hurt someone – like the murder-suicide thing was not going to go through – or if it’s been demonstrated afterwards that it’s really causing people extreme pain or distress, or you know something that is really tangible that we can tell and that’s hard to make a rule because it’s one of those we know it when we see it, and we’ll get rid of stuff that will, you know people sometimes contact the mods off fandom_wank. We have a very visible email address and there is a lot of stuff that we deal with behind the scenes that people don’t actually ever see. And often people threaten to sue us, [laughs] that has happened over the years more times than I can count. But, um, people will come to us with legitimate complaints and we’ll take of that.

Emma: What do you see as the role – and this is the question I ask as, like, a serious interviewer, right and I have a feeling you saw this question and laughed your ass off, but I do think there’s an answer to this so I’m going to ask it anyway – what do you think is the role of fandom_wank in fandom? What does it do for fandom that is valuable?

Snacky: I think, you know sometimes in fandom – and I mean this is probably just from me, I can’t really speak for everybody on list members, and even the other mods – but I think that sometimes in fandom that people get really caught up in it and they take it really, really seriously. And I’m all for taking it seriously, you know, it’s one of the best hobbies I’ve ever had, one of the most fun things I’ve ever done, I’ve met some really great people, you know people have become my best friends over this, you know on the same side of that I think sometimes we take it really seriously and we let things that are not really matters of life and death become so important that we fight with people over ship wars. [Emma makes agreeing sound] You know there’s threats made and people get angry and stuff like that. I think fandom_wank the role is to remind us to laugh at ourselves. You know we can’t take it all that seriously. Again I don’t want to call that a purpose, ‘cause we’re just there to laugh at it, [Emma makes agreeing sound] when it looks like it has reached critical mass of absurdity, whatever it is, you know people fighting over ships, or people sock-puppeting their lives away, or stuff like that we’re going to be there to laugh at it. I think a few years ago when fandom was less splintered, before people started, you know, leaving livejournal for other platforms that kind of stuff, I think it did function as a central clearing house of fandom, sort of. You know like a gossip central, or a maybe almost like a fandom news kind of thing, it wasn’t ever its purpose but it was so active and people were posting so many things from so many different fandoms you could really get a good idea of what was going on in fandom.

Emma: You know that is a really interesting point because actually kind of remember back in like, say 2005-2006 that you could go over to fandom_wank and just sort of scroll down the page and get a sense of what big things were happening. And there’s not really any sort of big clearing house like that, I mean like you said things have kind of slowed down on fandom_wank, but that’s really interesting. Do you think that fandom_wank had any kind of – I don’t want to say, they weren’t like the fandom police – but I do remember there was a sense back in like the mid-2000s, at least in the Harry Potter fandom, where people were cautious about posting things that they thought were going to create wank. And they started to be much more self-conscious, at least in the circles I ran in, people started to be much more self-conscious about what they posted. Um, did you see that in the fandom circles that you ran in? Did you think that fandom_wank kind of had this, like… it was kind of like this presence, like ‘now don’t be too much of an asshole, ‘cause you’re going to wind up on fandom_wank’.

Snacky: I d-, you know and I’ve heard people say that, I don’t think we ever wanted to be the fandom police or function as that, again I can’t speak for everyone as a whole, I mean certainly people have come to fandom_wank and posted wanks and they’ve been called out for grudge wanking. We’re not- and a lot of- and the members would respond en masse: we’re not here to be fandom police, we’re not here to fight your battles for you. But I do think, I don’t know if I want to call it a chilling effect, but, some people looked at some of the things that were happening and they’d say maybe ‘okay maybe I am thinking twice about writing this post’ or ‘maybe I’m thinking twice about doing this or doing that’ and, you know in some ways it was that they were scared that, you know, something bad would happen and they’d end up on fandom_wank and they’d be immortalised forever, but for the most part I think that there are very few people who have that reputation. You know? [Emma makes agreeing noise] I think that you could probably count them on, alright, two hands maybe ten people that you could say of all the people who were wanked over the years: these are the ones that really stand out as, like, super-wankers and they can’t shed that reputation. But that’s probably because they were repeat wankers, ‘cause we had a lot of those [Emma chuckles] and they did things over and over and over again. So for the most part people, even though they were scared and they were cautious, which like I said I’d heard, I don’t know that that was actually anything, a real repercussion that would of come back to them. I mean think of all, I think of all the wanks I’ve read and saw over the years and nine times out of ten I go ‘well who was that person?’, you know-

Emma: Right.

Snacky: -it would never occur to me, if their name came up, I’d be like ‘oh that one’, no it doesn’t really ring a bell. Kind of thing.

Emma: I think too, like, just sort of social, like enforcing social norms of fandom, like this is what you don’t do kind of thing. It was almost like, maybe it still has this effect in some fandoms, but I do remember there being a time when, you know what, you just don’t do that and if you do that you’ll wind up on fandom_wank and you deserve it.

Snacky: Yeah.

Emma: That kind of- you know? It was the only way we could punish each other in this land of avatars, you know?

Snacky: Yeah. I see what you’re saying yeah. And I think a lot of people did feel that way. Don’t behave like that or people are going to laugh at you. And in the long term lau- people laughing at you is not the worst thing that could happen, I guess.

Emma: Right.

Snacky: So if it was going to be punishment, it was probably going to be one of the best punishments you could get.

Emma: [sounding amused] A slap on the wrist. But then some people, I’m sure, didn’t take it that way.

Snacky: No. No they did not. And you know some people really still hate us to this day. In the early days of fandom_wank when I would run across some people in, outside of fandom_wank , in other communities and stuff like that they would say ‘oh, you’re that person from fandom_wank’ and I’d be like argh and I’d find myself in a position of having to answer for all of fandom_wank’s sins and I kind of gave that one up a long time ago. I can’t really defend fandom_wank like that to people who are upset by it and who have been hurt by it, you know all I can say is I’m sorry, it’s not for everyone, some people have thicker skins than others, some people find things different than other people do. And you know I really, we really are never, it’s never our intention to hurt people but I know that people have been upset by it. And I think a lot of people got over it and moved past it, you know I see people someday- sometimes say ‘you know I was wanked, and you know it was kind of funny, you know I locked things down for a while, but I got over it’, but like I said I’m sure there are some people who bear massive grudges against us.

Emma: So do you think that the role of fandom_wank in fandom has changed in the last five years? I mean one of the things that we should probably go ahead and talk about is sort how wank has changed in fandom over the last say, let’s say, decade. We’ve both been in fandom for, you sound like you might have been in fandom a little bit longer than I have, but I’ve been around for about a decade. And so from the mailing list days, to everything being concentrated on LJ, to splintering to journal sites and splintering off in all these other directions do you see wank happening differently than it used to? Or how has that changed over the years?

Snacky: One of the other mods, phosfate on journalfen and annlarimer on livejournal, she says, er, “wankiness never changes but the way fandom reacts to it does”, so I think, you know, there’s a swing in fandom_wank and I think people prefer to talk about it anonymously these days. I think there’s been a great rise in anon memes and some of them are fandom specific, and there are a few that are fandom in general. And I think that’s where a lot of discussion and wank goes on, or discussion of wank, I think they’ve taken over a lot of the role that fandom_wank used to play.

Emma: That’s interesting, I mean so when you talk about anon- when you think about like anon memes on LJ, or are you thinking of anon comments on tumblr? Like what kinds of?

Snacky: I think more in a fandom sense anon memes on LJ or Dreamwidth. You know there are fandom specific ones, so like I know the Doctor Who anon meme was very big for a long time. And then there’s one on LJ fail fandom anon that people just feel comfortable interacting anonymously, and that is one drawback to fandom_wank because we don’t have anon commenting on most of the time because when we have it’s always turned really sour really fast. People r- partly because, I think, the people are named in the thing and when, you know, people hide behind anonymity and really can be cruel. So that was one of the things that we kind of cut out early on in fandom_wank, we, when it started to get really bad for people. People making threats, people saying really inappropriate things we shut it off and I think some people really like to have an anonymous outlet. There’s been shifts in fandom in terms of tones of discussion I want to say with, like, social justice discussions, like race fail. You know, that brought a whole different tone to fandom and I think for the most part in a good way but I think a lot of people got really scared about saying something and saying something wrong, and perhaps afraid of being dog-piled. You know I see that a lot, so I think they turned to anon memes where they could discuss things without fear of putting a foot wrong and then getting attacked.

Emma: So there’s definitely been a slow-down at fandom_wank, it seems like there if you just look at the dates now, the dates of posts compared to say five or six years ago there’s a slow-down. So is it the same people? Are new people coming in? Or is it kind of the same members who are just interacting there?

Snacky: I think it’s the same members, we don’t really have much growth any more. Like I said Journal Fen doesn’t turn on account creation and we don’t really allow anon commenting so I think you know that kind of did that for us. I think part of it is because the mods are really o- you know hands off at fandom_wank. We only – we’re more reactive than proactive and I think a lot of people would say that’s a fault for modding [laughs] but for that community and the way it started that was what the community wanted, you know they did not want hands on mods, they did not want people saying, you know ‘don’t do this’ all the time, ‘don’t do that’. The rules that we have grew up over the years and I think if you look at them, I think there’s eight rules and I mean some are very long, but there aren’t any more than eight rules and that’s stuff that, you know, we add to very rarely. So it’s mostly self-modding so what we do is we allow the community to say if they don’t think something belongs at fandom_wank, you know somebody’ll post something and everybody’ll say ‘oh that’s unfunny don’t put it there, don’t have that’ and I think that’s part of what happened with fandom_wank and I don’t want to say it’s dead but I feel like it’s just really slowed down. We don’t really have any kind of growth and we have people who have been there for a long time and they know what they like and so it’s, you know, new people don’t really go there.

Emma: I guess the question I h- the follow up question I want to ask then is: you were talking about, like, the f- the anon memes that are on LJ and things like that now that people seem to have gone to, I haven’t really spent much time on those so I can’t really do a comparison, but do you think that the nature of the way people respond to wank, or report wank is different if they do it anonymously than it was on fandom_wank where your name would be attached to it forever?

Snacky: I think they’re still naming people and linking to things that happen but I think they don’t have to worry about being the one who has reported it or somebody hating them for doing that. I don’t think it’s really that big of a difference, I think it’s just anonymous discussion. People are saying that they want. I think fandom_wank it still has its place and people still come to it when there’s some really big things that happen, but it’s not the same as it was and again that’s just a- it’s a combination of factors, it’s fandom splintering off of livejournal because of all of livejournal’s antics, you know, and going to dreamwidth or going to wherever they went to from that; tumblr, you know some people do everything on twitter these days, so it, you know there’s people everywhere and fandom is all over the place there’s still, there’s forums on fanfiction.net that people are very active in. So it’s all over the place and it’s going to be that same thing it used to be and the one thing that JournalFen offered to fandom_wank was it was never going to be thrown off of it. So as much as it focussed on livejournal and that aspect of fandom people could complain all they want but Journal- the JournalFen owners were never going to throw us off because people were being too mean. It was a different kind of situation back then so we had that freedom of stepping back and looking at people and saying ‘haha that was really funny’, but there’s no- that central clearing house has gone so we’ve had people post twitter wanks – they’re very hard to follow-

Emma: [laughs] I bet!

Snacky: It really is. You have to work the timeline backwards and try and get that right. And you know Tumblr is not as hard to find and there’s been some really funny stuff, you know the craziness with the One Direction fans earlier this year, although we couldn’t really mock them because most of them were underage.

Emma: Back in what I guess I think of as the glory days of, like, fandom_wank and fandom on LJ, like the mid 2000s, 2004-2007 somewhere in there I remember that when wank happened in a fandom it would kind of paralyse the fandom for a few days and it was like all anybody could talk about, everyone would make f’locked posts about what they- how they felt about the wank and everybody would go over to fandom_wank and see what was going on and it was kind of all anyone could talk about, but there was nowhere else they could go. It was kind of like in the mailing list days if there was some kind of a flame war between BNFs going on that was all you could do. You kind of had to go off-list to do anything else. Now these days it doesn’t seem like that happens quite so much because it’s on tumblr you can just not look at that.

Snacky: Right.

Emma: You can filter it out, or if it’s on tumblr you can go to LJ, or if it’s on LJ you can go to twitter. I mean does this mean that mean that wank has the same impact on fandom as it used to? Or sometimes when I’m looking at my tumblr dash people will be talking about wank and I haven’t seen a bit of it. You know? I’m like ‘I’m in this fandom, how did I miss it?’.

Snacky: I know.

Emma: I wouldn’t have missed it five years ago. How do you? I mean what’s your experience with that?

Snacky: I don’t know that it’s that same kindof ‘oh we all have to stop and be upset about it’ kind of thing. I think some people seem to really enjoy this fighting that goes on and stuff like that, but on the other hand I think it’s a good thing for people who are like ‘I can’t deal with this’, you know they really now have the option not to.

Emma: Right.

Snacky: I don’t want to look at it, I’m just going to, I’m going to retire to my journal and not see anything anymore for a while. Or I’m just going to be over here in my corner writing fic, and I’ll be okay.

Emma: [chuckles] It is funny that sometimes, and this where I’m going to sound like the old lady shaking her stick and saying ‘get off my lawn’, that every now and then when I do see a wank happening, like on tumblr especially where the age seems like it’s pretty skewed young, at least in the fandoms that I’m involved in, and they are like going on about things that fandom has been fighting about for decades and they’re acting like it’s new, and they’re like ‘how are you people acting like this?’, and ‘why are you doing this?’ and derderderderder, and I’m thinking ‘because that’s been happening for twenty years’ I want to, like, link some back to old wanks. You know, like, look, we’ve talked about this before, this is not new. It’s amazing.

Snacky: I think that was something we used to see a lot in fandom_wank, like every summer you’d have the same round of ‘is slash out of character?’ kind of thing. [both laugh] I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat through that one. Or ‘is RPF, are we all going to hell if we read it?’ or you know, all those different things. So when you see it come up on tumblr with the new fans, it is, it’s kind of funny you’re like [sucks breath through teeth], oh we’ve done this one before. Here’s I’ll send something, have a look. [Emma laughs] And that was one of the ones, again, the One Direction thing that happened a few months ago I think, when Asia wrote a story for the Daily Dot about One Direction tin hats and was talking about older fandoms where they were tin hats and tin hatting going on and those kids just lost their minds. [Emma laughs] [Overdramatic] She was bullying them! She was breaking the fourth wall! She was doing all these terrible things! And yet they had all the same things that everyone has ever said about a tin hat fandom, you know ‘the poor boys are being oppressed by the evil PR’ and all that stuff and there is nothing new under the sun. [both chuckle] You just think these kids just have to outgrow it and yes, I am an old lady shaking my cane, you kids get off my lawn! But the weird thing is at least these days with so much interaction with the people that they’re fanning about, you know, they see what’s going on. I know that that has been a big problem with the One Direction fandom, that the people in One Direction, the boys in One Direction have this direct interaction with the fans and they’re like ‘you people are being crazy and you’re threatening my mother’, or something, you know ‘stop’, because it’s all happening on twitter, in real time.

Emma: Which is just amazing, you know when I think about, like, ten years ago when I was in fandom the idea that you could have that kind of interaction with people you were writing fic about blows my mind.

Snacky: Right? I know, it’s crazy.

Emma: The next question I have for you is about the future of fandom_wank.

Snacky: I don’t know about the future of fandom_wank! We’re still there, we’re not going anywhere. I know people have worried about, you know, if it gets deleted, or, you know, what if we just shut the whole thing down and we’re not going to do that. We like to have that archive of wank. It is kind of a little historical thing of fandom, you know, and I know some people don’t care about that, but there’s fanlore now and the OTW who do, who are concerned about the history of fandom. And I know one of our members at one point had downloaded a big chunk of fandom_wank to save just in case something happened. I would, if possible, someday back it up to somewhere else if we could. I know you can port communities to Dreamwidth now and I would do that for that reason. Just to save it. Just to have a backup archive of it. JournalFen they’re not planning on going anywhere. I know we talk to the owners sometimes and, you know when they’ve had down time or outages people worry because it is kind of, you know fandom_wank their big draw, I think, for a while and things got quiet over there and they worry ‘oh are they going to take that website away?’ but they have no plans to do that. We just hope it’ll stay the test of time. Um, there’s always the wiki, which is not complete, but you know, anybody can sign up for that and add wanks as they feel free. It’s just nice to have, I guess, you know, to look back sometimes at some of those crazy things that happened. It is a part of fandom, I’d hate to see it be lost forever.

Emma: Yeah that’s really true. I mean I think that your point about it being part of the history of fandom is definitely a good one. I mean, even when you look back – I was looking at the wiki earlier – and looking back over something like, I think there’s like a page of the most famous wanks and looking back over them some of them took me back, but then some of them I thought ‘wow that’s like, that’s really going back quite a ways’, and just when you read the description, you look at who was involved and what was happening, you kind of get a window into how fandom operated then and in a way that it is different now. And I think especially as technology keeps changing and as we move forward and you know we’re not as centralised as we were back then it’s going to be really interesting to look back at how we fought then compared to how we’ll fight in the future [laughs], cause you know we’re going to.

Snacky: Oh we’re always going to. There’s never going to be a difference, um, you know different fighting or different wanking, but just what happens with it is what’s going to be different. I mean it’s still chugging along so we don’t have any plans, and maybe things will swing back to we need a central clearing house for fandom who knows? You know people might want to use it again. Maybe JournalFen will open up account creation again and maybe some people will come over there and decide it’ll be fun to post tumblr wanks or something like that. We’ll see what happens. It’s always going to be there.

Emma: Awesome. Well, before we go I just wanted to ask you what is your favourite wank of all time?

Snacky: That’s a hard one. I really did, after the fact, with miss scribe [?], that wank, that was something else, you know. That was one of those things when it was revealed all those things she did and how she played everyone in fandom for years and years, including fandom_wank, cause there were always wanks being posted and people were like ‘ohh look at that’, and then to look at it in retrospect it was kind of amazing that one woman pulled all that off. And I liked a lot of the Lord of the Rings ones back in the days, like the Victoria Bitter thing is still such an amazing story, which said eat this now, you now, it goes by than fiction, you know stopped being quite as funny when you saw what was going on, but it was pretty funny in the beginning. That was a really funny one. Some really old school ones make me laugh still.

Emma: And if anybody wants to learn more about these awesome wanks of fandom past we’ll post the link to, not only to fandom_wank, but also to the wiki on our Post Show Post. People can go and check those out. I think my personal favourite is still His Wife, a Horse, and that’s all I’ll say about that because I think that might come up in the Meta Chat. [Snacky is laughing]

Snacky: And if you go to our, if we link to the info page of fandom_wank there’s links off of that to everything: to the wiki, if people want a link to all our tags so they can go through the tags and look at everything there’s links to everything right there, so, all the other comms, all the history it’s all there.

Emma: Fantastic. Well thank you so much for taking time on this day of the apocalypse.

Snacky: Yup!

Emma: To talk to me about fandom_wank.

Snacky: Talking about fandom_wank did not bring the apocalypse on.

Emma: It didn’t amazingly enough.

Snacky: Thank you for having me. [laughs]

Emma: Alright. Thanks a lot. Bye bye.

Snacky: Bye.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 39: Pimp My Fandom

2013-03-19T20:42:42Z

Host: kriken
Guest: imifos
Fandom: The Hobbit

Kriken: Welcome to Pimp My Fansom for this episode of Slashcast, our guest today is Imifos.

Imifos: Hi.

Kriken: And what fandom will you be pimping today?

Imifos: I'll be pimping the Hobbit fandom, that is the movie that's just come out.

Kriken:Yes, so I think most people know at this point that The Hobbit is a part of the much larger Lord of the Rings books from Tolkien, but today we will specifically be talking about the Hobbit since the movie has just come out and the fandom has kind. of exploded all over the place.

Imifos: Yeah.

Kriken: But just in case there are people out there that don't know that much, do you want o give us a really quick breakdown of what we are looking at.

Imifos: Yeah sure, so the Hobbit movie that's come out in about a month ago, in December in most places which is based on the book by J.R.R. Tolkien, is the first part of trilogy of movies and the basic premise is, Bilbo Baggins who is a hobbit he joins a company a company of dwarves, well Thorin Oakenshield is the main dwarf, he joins the company at the request of Gandalf, so that they can reclaim their homeland Erebor which has been by a dragon Smaug. So that's kind of the main story and it's very episodic and you see, it's basically and adventure story and you see kind of whats happens along the way and they try to get there to reclaim the kingdom.

Kriken: Now so for someone that hasn't had the chance to see the movie , I know at least here in the US at least in some places it's still in theaters, where do you think people will be able to find it otherwise?

Imifos: Well i think, I'm in the UK and it's still playing here as well so you might still have a chance to catch it at the cinema, but if not and you don't want to resort to kind of illegal methods, I think the DVD is rumored to be coming out in March and then an extented edition coming out in Autumn sometime. but it depends on how long you wan tot wait for it.

Kriken: And of course there is always the book!

Imifos: And of course there is always the book, which I highly recommend that as well.

Kriken: Although I will say that, since it is a single book and they doing three movies there is quite a bit of extra added in.

Imifos: Yes, they've added for those kind of familiar with the Lord of the Rings, they've added a lot of material from the appendices in The Return of the King and they've also introduced some of their own story elements as well to create some tension.

Kriken: Now there are quite a few characters here, and we cant through all of them but I think it would be fun if you try to do through all of the dwarves.

Imifos: Oh God. There's Gandalf also I should say who is also in the Lord of the Rings who is the wizard and he is the one gets Bilbo who is the Hobbit to join the dwarf company. And then the main dwarf is Thorin Oakenshield who is played by Richard Armitage, oh yeah and I should say that Bilbo is played by Martin Freeman in the movie, Thorin is played by Richard Armitage and he is the king, so basically he is the one who started this whole quest so he can claim back his kingdom and the ones that the fandom has kind of fallen over for is Fili and Kili who are his nephews and then there's thirteen dwarves in total shall I go through all of them?

Kriken: We'll mention their names cause they are fun to say. There are a couple of tumblr posts, that are very useful for getting to know the dwarves, that ties together with family links. Because when you are in a particular family your names all rhyme.

Imifos: Yes it is very handy that way! Ok so there is Balin and Dwalin, then there is Bifur and Bofur and Bombur and Oin and Gloin and Nori and Dori and Ori. And am I missing any? I think that's all.

Kriken: Alright so, with all of these characters we obviously have lot of potential, but what are the main pairings that you are seeing coming out of the fandom?

Imifos: Ok, yes. And I should say that also in the movie, a lot of these characters are now fully developed. There is a lot more focus on some of these characters, which is probably what has resulted to certain pairing as well. Um, but yes, the main pairing which seems to have exploded is Bilbo/Thorin also known as Bagginshield and the secondary, which may overtake it who know, is Fili/Kili who I should also say are brothers, so I dont know if anyone has a problem with that. Um but that is Durincest the ship name. So those are the two main ones when it comes to the dwarves and Bilbo.

Kriken: Well and for each of those,c an you tell us what made fandom latch on to them, what made them so slashable?

Imifos: Yeah, well I dont think many people went into the movie expecting to come out with any slash pairings... For those who have seen the Lord of the Rings, I don't think Gimli was sort of inherently sexy in the Lord of the Rings and I dont think people were expecting to have slashy feeling coming out of the Hobbit. But it kinda seems to have taken fandom by storm a little bit, probably much to do with Martin Freeman.

Kriken: Yeah pretty much.

Imifos: Yeah.

Kriken: I will say that despite the fact that Gimli wasn't the most hansomly portayed character in the Lord of the Rings that didn't stop anyone from shipping him with Legolas.

Imifos: No, that ships itself really. No I think especially with Bilbo and Thorin it's kind of there in the movie I guess. I mean even Martin Freemna himself, he was asked the question why do you think that Bilbo went along with the dwarves because it's not really his nature to go adventuring and his answer was, well maybe he fell in love with Thorin. (laughs) Yeah that was actually his answer. So i think that's official endorsement. Um but also this is also in the book the dwarves sing a lot of songs, but Thorin he sings a song when they are at Bilbo's house, to get him to come with the, and it's Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold is the song. And you kind of see Bilbo undergo a change when he listens to that songs, because it's all about longing for home and this is kind of what seems to shift his mind to join with the dwarves. So there is a lot of there already in the movie and I dont want to spoil anything but there is something that happens towards the end of the movie and has resulted in a lot of shippy, slashy gifs all over tumblr and it pretty wonderful. It also helps that the actors are quite pretty.

Kriken: Yeah that never hurts.

Imifos: Yeah that definitely doesn't hurt at all. And yeah, it just they seem to kind of have a bit of a clash these two characters, because Bilbo want to prove himself to Thorin because Thorin is kind of looking down on the hobbit, like why is he here with us, he is not fit for his quest and you see Bildo constantly trying to earn his place and improve in the eye of Thorin shall we say. So that probably has something to do with the shippiness.

Kriken: Now what about Fili/Kili?

Imifos: Fili & Kili I think, it's probably something to do with Aidan Turner who plays Kili, I don't want to get this wrong, being absolutely adolable. And they kind of work like clockwork these two together. They are kind of inseperable throughout he whole film and you see them constantly cracking jokes or fighting together things like that. So yeah and yeah just adorableness. I think it's basically not very sophisticated.

Kriken: Alright so where would you recommend people who are new to the fandom, would go to look for the good stuff? Whether it be gifsets or fic?

Imifos: So I am mainly tumblr based and there is absolutely tons of stuff. I mean if you are on tumblr you've probably already seen tons of stuff on your dashboard to be honest, whether you want to or not. So you can just, you can look at the main hobbit tag or bagginshield tag or durincest tag all those are good to go. And then on AO3 under the Hobbit 2012, because there is a few, because obviously there are the books as well. But yes The Hobbit 2012 is the one for the movie. And on LJ, there is a news community called Middle Earth News, but that aslo has stuff for Lord of the Rings so it depends on whether you are interested in that as well, and there is also the HobbitFilmFic community which is just about The Hobbit. On LJ, there are some new communities, I mean this fandom is only like a month old so a lot of these communities are quite new, um but there is already tons of fic it seems, so some new communites are fili/kili that's on LJ and Heirs of Durin, which I think is a bit older and there is also the hobbit kink meme and that's hobbit_kink and that's on LJ.

Kriken: So when you go to all these places you must me inundated with all of these fanworks. Do you have a couple, that would be really good for people that are new.

Imifos: Yeah, I should say that because the fandom is really quite new, apart from one shots, which personally I don't really read that much, I prefer kind of plotty fic, most of the fic that's out there is not completed yet so if you prefer completed fic you are better of waiting a little bit longer or focusing on oneshots, but some I've reading and loving are:

An Unexpexted Addition by Karategal, ahh how do I say this without spoiling, it takes place after the end of the Hobbit book so maybe if you ahvent read the book it might not be the best place, but if you have it's brilliant. So it basically Bilbo returns to Erebor which is the kingdom that they've reclaimed with Frodo who has been orphaned, because of course Biblo is Frodo's uncle to tie it in with the Lord of the rings and it's absolutely adorable and that is Bagginshield.

For one that is actually taking place during the events of the film is Beneatht eh Mountains Music Woke by EmilianaDarling and it's all written by Thorin's POV and he realises that he has certain feelings for a certain hobbit. And she just has one of the best written Thorins that are out there I think, just kind of awkward and abrupt which is exactly how be is both in the movie and in the book, and just protective of Bilbo. And it has a wonderful slow build up to Bagginshield which is brilliant.

Then is you wanted some modern AU that is not fantasy related, there is the Sons of Durin by KivlinEngle and its, there's kind of a joke in the movie where Thorin calls Bilbo a grocer, and she's actually made hi m a grocer in the fic. But it's actually, I mean that's probably the only joke, it's actually quite an angsty fic. Um yeah but if you like your AU that's excellent.

Then for something a little bit lighter there is Thorn Oakenshield's Majestic Diary by fruitsie, which is absolutely hysterical. It's thorin keeps a Bridget Jones- esque diary which focused on being majestic and his crush on Bilbo. It's excellent.

My absolutely favourite one at the moment is the Sleeping Series by Keelywolfe who if you are a sherlokian you probably recognise her, she's incredible. And that is both Thorin/Bilbo and Fili/Kili so you get a bit of both, and it's pretty much the hottest thing written in this fandom in my opinion. Yeah just go read it. And i has the novelty of featuring bottom!Thorin and you don't see that often enough in my opinion. Please if anyone has any recs for bottom!Thorin please send them me, cause I want o read more of it, please!

Kriken: Do you have any gifsets, or vids or mixes or anything like that? Other types of fanwork that you really liked?

Imifos: There is some art out there that I, I mean again if you go on the Hobbit tag on tumblr you will find tons of it, some of my favourites are the stuff that gingerhaze has done on the Hobbit, I mean she is brilliant in everything really, but yeah it's pretty amusing. And a brilliant one is, this is not very shippy but it's just funny is Thorin holding Fili like in the Lion King film, yeah over the cliff, and that's done by agehachou over on tumblr, and there is a really nice hot fanart of Kili and Kili kissing and that's by kaciart on tumblr. So yeah those are great, but pretty much the hobbit tag and you will find tons upon tons of stuff. People have been very creative in a very short amount of time it's brilliant.

Kriken: And do you have, well for anyone that maybe has only seen the movie hasn't read the movie, or maybe someone that's coming into this with a completely blank slate, do you ave any recommendation for them any last words that you'd like to say?

Imifos: Yeah I would say that if you've only seen the movie, and you don't want to be spoilt for what happens because something pretty significant happens at the end of the book, um it's quite hard to avoid it, so I would probably suggest maybe read the book, because I dont think you'll be able to not get spoilt unfortunately. this is the only bad thing, sorry!

Kriken: No, for old fandoms like these that cross all kinds of boundaries when it comes to types, when you get books and movies and especially when they span over decades it's really hard so. It's some good advise.

Imifos: Yeah the book has been out since 1937 and even in discussion you probably cant avoid finding out what happens at the end. So yeah just read it. And I know that Tolkien's writing can be a bit tricky, but the Hobbit is very stylistically quite different to the Lord of the Rings and it's much simpler cause it was always meant to be a children's book. so if you tried reading Lord of the Rings and you were put off by the writing don't necessarily write off the Hobbit because it is quite different stylistically and it'd much more jovial and amusing and adventures and yeah there's not nearly as many names as the Lord of the Rings or songs.

Kriken: Alright so thank you very much.

Imifos: It's my pleasure.

Kriken: If any of you are fans of the Hobbit and have any additional recommendations we'd love to hear them. you can find us on our livejournal, our tumblr or on our website and if you want to Pimp your Fandom on slashcast you can leave your comment on the post show post or email us at islashdoyou @ gmail.com Thanks for listening.

Transcribed by: imifos

Episode 39: Mailbag Transcript

2013-03-19T20:24:26Z

Mailbag Transcript for Episode 39
Hosts: emmagrant01, djin7, akemi42

Emma: Welcome for the mailbag for this episode of Slashcast. I’m Emma Grant and I’m here with DJ and Rachel.

DJ: Hi

Rachel: Hello

Emma: So first of all I want to talk about one of the comments that we got on our last episode which was the Wank episode, and I think DJ is going to address that.

DJ: Yes on our episode 38 we were featuring Fandon Wank and unfortunately the Fandon Wank wiki website, has been down and experiencing technical difficulties since we actually posted this episode. However it is temporary and they are fixing the problem and I am assured by Snacky and the gang that it will be up and you definitely want to have a look when does come up, because there is some really hilarious links that we got on our episode 38 on slashcast. So definitely go take a look if you can, as soon as it gets back very shortly! Temporary technical difficulties only.

Emma: Great good. I know I’m looking forward to going back and looking at some of those links again. So the topic of this episode is Romance and one of the things that we wanted to talk about here in the mailbag was surprise romance. So times when you’ve been reading a fic and the romance caught you by surprise. So, I thought I would start. My example is a Snarry example, and I am not…

Rachel: Oh my god, Emma has a Snarry example, I’m so thrilled!

Emma: So I’m not really a Snarry fan which is why this was a surprise for me, but the story that I’m thinking of here is “Snape: The Home Fries Nazi” by pir8fancier. And I basically read because everybody recced the crap out of it and also because it was pir8fancier. And you know, there are people in fandom who you are like, err whatever the hell they write I’m just gonna read it because I know it’s gonna be good. So I read it. And so if you know the story, we’ll link to it in the post show post, if you know the story, the premise is unbelievably cracky. It was written before the seventh book came out, so the premise is that of course Snape survives the end of the war and he loses his magic because he is a death eater and he is exiled to America, and he winds up in New Mexico as like a fry cook in a diner, and Harry goes looking for him. So I read the story it was really fantastic, I mean Snape has like a shaved head , he is like a biker with tattoos, something crazy like that right? But by the end of the fic I was so swept up in this romance between Harry and Snape I couldn’t believe it. I literally couldn’t believe it, it hit all my romance buttons, it really did. It was two unlikely people and they find this connection and they’re kind of resistant to it and then they are so drawn together that in the end you just root for them to get together and when they do it’s glorious. So that’s my example, the time that I didn’t expect to find the romance so intriguing and then I really did.

DJ: Not just didn’t expect but openly actually avoided.

Emma: Definitely

Rachel: You’re like this has two flaws, one it’s a Snarry, two it’s a fry cook fic. I think the longer you are in Harry Potter fandom you start to realise those two things are not flaws at all.

DJ: Exactly.

Emma: And you had those written by pir8fancier so you can’t go wrong.

Rachel: I... in early days of Harry Potter fandom read a lot of Harry Hermione and that involved people link Cassandra Clare and Mad Lori, can’t remember her other moniker, anyway they had various stories which on occasion would touch upon a side pairing with Draco and Harry and that was a surprise to me. Cause that was like, oh hold on a sec I can totally see that and it was not something that had ever occurred to me before that. So that was a huge surprise for me and then I went flopping into the Drarry fandom straight from that and started to read that stuff for the next two years and it was during reading those fics that I ran across one where, there was a side pairing of, a past pairing actually of Harry a survivor Harry story, where he had survived Snape and was with Draco. And so he was all past tense lover sort of, past mentor type fic and he did not feature in the fic at all it was just his heartbreak over losing him that Draco had to address as his new lover. And so it was very touchingly done, and I will try and find the name and try to link it up. And that brought me over to the Snape/Harry pairing and that works too!

Emma: That was the fic that recruited you. Wow!

DJ: That’s right, into Snarry. And as you know the rest is history, cause I hit the pinnacle there and that’s it there’s no going back from that.

Rachel: Well I’m going to break the trend and name a fic that is not in Harry Potter fandom. My example is actually fairly recent and it is an Avengers fic called Bulletproof by foxxcub and it is a Tony/Steve college AU fic. I usually don’t read AU Avengers, I usually stick to like, well I mean comics are kind of AU so I do in that way, but I usually stick to at least mainstream universes. But this fic, I don’t know somebody, I got it recced by a few different people and I actually read it in a sauna, the entire fic two or three hours in a sauna. I was clearly really devoted to it. It has a really great Steve/ Tony dynamic where Steve and Tony went to high school together and they end up in college and Steve was always kind of dorky but then he sold out, they don’t have superpowers in this fic, and when they are in college they are sort of fuck buddies but Tony wants something more. You know it’s classic dynamics, but it’s kind of stuff you read when you are really into a pairing and you really want to read that trope. But it has Phil/Clint as a side paining that I’d read as a side pairing before, but not in an AU sense. They would be in the Marvel universe or in the movie universe and be there as a pairing, and nothing really struck me with them. I mean I thought it was kind of cute but it wasn’t like ohh wow I really want to read this. And something about this fic, having the two of them with the dynamic of Clint being younger and still being like his older. But something about the college AU made me go oh I love Clint and Coulson now I’ve read. I wouldn’t say I am recruited like DJ, like it didn’t move over, I’m still very very devoted to Steve/ Tony but it definitely did make me click quite a few links on Clint/ Phil that I wouldn’t normally have clicked. And I’ll post a link to that fic in the show notes as well and I actually just discovered it’s a series on AO3. So I clearly need to make another trip to the sauna and read part 2. Which Clint/Phil are the primary pairing.

DJ: Don’t forget some water when you go into the sauna cause you know we’re worried about you.

Emma: You know, that’s happened to me a couple of times now that you mention it, in the Sherlock fandom with Lestrade and Mycroft as a side pairing. It’s not a pairing that I would seek out and read because I kind of like a John/Sherlock/Greg OT3, like if Greg is going to be involved I want him with one of those guys. But I have read a few things where there was a side pairing, a side romance going on between Greg Lestrade and Myscroft and I’m kind of going ohhh rooting for that on the side.

DJ: Yeah I’ve been reading Merlin actually recently, God forbid, I actually didn’t have any interest in that fandom at all until recently and I don’t want to spoil anybody so I’m not going to note it but in North America they are just airing the last season now but the reason why I even became interested in it is because of the last season and the way that they ended it. Long story short I have been reading some of the fics and I have noticed that there are some side, there’s a lot of beautiful people on this TV show, there are some side pairing that have definitely peeked my interest, but I still have to get through and hoover myself through so much backstory there, certainly though hit on a couple of those side pairing that seem plausible and tasty for sure.

Emma: Awesome

Rachel: I guess you know, I would even say that John/Sherlock to me was a pairing to me that blew, I watched the show and I was assumed that I was going to be a Sherlock/Moriarty shipper and cause the first fic I read was John/ Sherlock it totally put me in that direction.

Emma: So it was like chance.

DJ: Right.

Emma: The first thing I clicked on. That’s how I got into Harry/Draco in the Harry Potter fandom, I was like scrolling though some Harry Potter archive and I was like looking for slash of course and I was thinking like Harry/Ron but I didn’t actually read any Harry/Ron, the first summary that caught my attention was Harry/Draco and I was like what Harry and Draco? Draco is a little shit.. what? I clicked it and that was it, you know. So totally by chance what I clicked on first.

DJ: I was lead to mine, I was lucky enough to run into a bid story where they had a cookie, or a side vignette as it were, an alternate universise scene in which the author actually went there. Their entire story arc was basically a trilogy between Harry, Hermione and Draco and everyone pinning after Hermione as the female, the ultimate prize female at the end of it all. There was this great side vignette of Harry/Draco a side as it were, that was unbelievable, I thought now that is what we're talking about after all that! So that was really interesting for me. Some authors will do that, and I think they get really positive feedback perhaps on the chemistry they've written down and they maybe do a side story of it or they tease you a little bit, pander a little bit to their fans maybe even, like they do in canon in TV and stuff, Joss Whedon and all those, they do tend to pander on occasion and I'm all over that. If the authors will pander and make you thirst for some sort of surprise romance, that's good, that can only lead to more good things.

Rachel: Surprise romance, surprise butt sex it's all good.

Emma: I love it, It's all good. So if any of our listeners want to drop us a comment and tell us about any surprise romances that you found in your fandom experience, you can leave a comment on our LJ post, you can leave a comment on our website, you can leave us an ask on Tumblr, etc. etc. You can even email us on islashdoyouatgmaildotcom. So that's it for this episode for Slashcast, thanks for listening and happy slashing.

DJ: Happy slashing.

Rachel: Happy slashing.

Transcribed by imifos

Episode 35: Meta Chat

2013-02-23T13:08:50Z

Meta Chat transcript, Episode 35

Host: elanorofcastile
Guests: kriken, xtinethepirate, Tashilover
Topic: Reading, Writing, Reacting: Horror in Fandom

Elanor: Welcome to the Metachat segment for Episode 35. Today we’re going to be talking about horror and what’s scary, and all sorts of creepy stuff for our fun October 1st episode. And I am joined here by a couple of great folks. I’m Elanor of Castile, you don’t really hear my voice a lot, I’m a little bit behind the scenes, the person behind the shadows, shall we say. And so with us today we have a couple of great folks, if you’d introduce yourselves.

Xtine: Hello, I am Xtine, my livejournal/fanfiction.net/archiveofourown handle is xtinethepirate. Fandom wise I have previously been active in terms of art and fic in Star Wars and Supernatural, currently I am mostly a lurker in Sherlock fandoms of all sorts, although I have thrown my hat in the ring a little bit in terms of fic and art for those. Er, yeah, and so that’s me.

Kriken: And this is Kriken, primarily in terms of this month’s theme my biggest fandom would be Teen Wolf, very obvious why that’s part of this particular discussion. I also, in the past, was a very big member of the Buffy fandom. I am a reader primarily, I also do some beta work, and I love to squee all over the place. [laughter]

Elanor: Awesome.

Xtine: Clean that squee up off the floor! [laughter]

Elanor: And as I said I am Elanor of Castile, I am in Teen Wolf and Supernatural, and Sherlock and a little bit of metalocalypse still. I’m mostly a lurker, sometimes I write a bit. And we are also joined, not in person, but as a write-in by the fabulous Tashilover, she is a fanfic writer, reader and occasional artist. She is in a whole bunch of fandoms, but right now she is mostly in Supernatural, Sherlock, and Cabin Pressure. And so I kind of want to toss it out, for our first question. What is scary to us? So Tashilover, she said:

“Oh gosh, what is scary to me? I honestly don’t know. Right now I’m trying to think back on movies and books that used to scare the crap out of me and pick out things that stood out. What do these things have in common with each other? Like the evil clown from It, some of the death scenes from the first Alien movie and nowadays the Slenderman. I think what I find scary is not knowing. You don’t know what your enemy is, you don’t know how to defend against them, how to fight, how to protect others. If you don’t know then what the fuck are you supposed to do? Wave a stick at them and hope for the best? It’s sort of like those moments when the character wakes up in the hospital and finds the whole place deserted, there’s blood on the walls, there’s signs of struggle but nobody’s there. That’s freaky.”

So definitely for her it is the unknown. What about you gals? What scares you?

Xtine: Well, to put my literary glasses on – and you can’t see me, I did just put my glasses on – [laughter] um I agree a lot with what Tashi’s saying, in terms of the terror versus horror distinction, with terror being the more, the sort of the psychological not knowing what’s coming, the anticipation and dread, and horror being the very physical of the body kind of squicky stuff. Yeah, I mean things like, what she says, the cut away and you can just hear the screams over the intercom, because what your imagination can nebulously formulate is much scarier than anything that could be-

Kriken: Always.

Xtine: -actually shown.

Elanor: Oh yeah.

Xtine: In person. And I think that’s what has always been the scarier parts of things for me. Like, I found the first Saw movie, for instance, a lot scarier than any of the later ones because in the later ones they really got the camera up in close on ‘let’s see how we can tear these people apart’, which wasn’t as scary as the person creating these puzzles that would, you know, harm people and destroy people. And I’m sick right now so of course I’m having flashbacks to The Stand and Captain Trips, which I always feel like whenever I get a cold and I become a big baby over it. You know the scariest part of that book for me is just, like, one chapter, and it’s only like four or five pages, but it’s just all of the, like, the infected people and the people that they meet and they have dinner with them, and then they go their separate ways, and then one goes to an airport, and flies to the West coast and it’s just like, you know that this disease is being passed on and it’s going to wipe everyone out, but it’s just seeing the sort of, the mundane way it happens and knowing that the ‘Big Evil’ is going to come and squash everything. That makes it really horrifying, or terrifying I should say to be accurate for me.

Kriken: Personally there are two things that really are sure to get me. I need there to be tension, I can know what’s coming – because we’ve been talking about not knowing – I can know what that is, if the tension is developed well then I’m going to be just as scared, I promise. [laughter] I lot of that has to do with set up and music and all of that, one of my favourite Buffy episodes was The Gentleman episode, which.

Xtine: Oh god! [surprised laughter]

Kriken: Which Joss Whedon, I don’t know if he actually got the award, but he was definitely nominated. And the entire episode, except for a few minutes at the beginning and the end, was done entirely without dialogue. The big baddies are these really tall, skinny, skeletal looking men who kind of float around. And they’ve stolen the voices of everyone in town so there’s no way to communicate. And the entire episode is just done with the actors’ facial expressions and their body language, and this wonderful score that they had, and it was so creepy.

Xtine: Yeah, the Danse Macabre I think is what’s in the background, and yeah, I mean it’s just, yeah that is the scariest episode, of Buffy, sans doubt.

Kriken: [over Xtine] I, I thi-

Xtine: And it sort of reminds me as well of Blink in Doctor Who, where you can have something that ostensibly is very mundane like statues and just the way they’re positioned and the tension that builds up around them. And the way they’re moved, that becomes absolutely horrifying, because you never see the statues move, but you know that if you close your eyes for a second they’re going to get you.

Kriken: Yeah.

Xtine: So you can’t blink. [laughter]

Kriken: I also really like when something is taken away from the characters, so like in that Buffy episode they lost their voices, again when in Teen Wolf for season two the big baddie was the Kanima and they can paralyse them. They were able to, like move their heads and talk, so it wasn’t full paralysis, but it removed a lot of their control over the situation, which is something that I personally fear. ‘Cause if I have control I can deal with it. [Elanor makes sound of agreement] That loss of control-

Elanor: Oh yeah.

Kriken: - is pretty terrifying to think about. So whenever you lose something that’s vital to you, whether it be motor control, or voice or if you lose your abilities whatever they happen to be, that ramps the tension right up.

Elanor: For sure. For me, I’m definitely of the unknown as well, because when I think about it when I read The Shining for the first time that book made me afraid of the dark again. And I was, like, 16, you know? [chuckles] I was totally good with just walkin’ around without any lights on, I would go to summer camp and just not use my flashlight. Then I read The Shining and I totally had to have the light on before I would go into the room, that sort of thing. And it was definitely the book and the creation in my head. I watched the movie or whatever and it was fine, but it wasn’t scary to me. And then too, the book House of Leaves, that was one too that was a combination of circumstance and being at summer camp and being in the dark all the time, and reading this book about exploring an oppressive darkness and it just, [appears to shudder] ughh, gave me the willies.

Xtine: Keeping on the ideas of the unknown, as well, at least in my experience, and maybe for you as well talking about you know being at summer camp and what not, is when the unknown comes out of something that should be familiar-

Elanor: Yeah.

Xtine: -pardon my horrible German, doing the Heimlich on homely (01.41.45), I think that’s one thing when I mentioned The Stand that makes it so scary that knowing that going to an airport – I travel a lot for work, that is part of my daily routine – the idea that that could be something that sets off a horrible plague that kills everybody. You know taking something that’s familiar and then wrenching it in a horrible way, that makes it suddenly scary and so you are scared to go into your own room without turning on the light. I think that that, the effect of the whole taking the familiar and completely defamiliarising in a way that still connects with people, but then makes that connection into something really terrible and frightening.

Elanor: Yeah. All these things kind of worry us, scare us, make us twitch, well why do we go looking for it then? Why do we want to read it? Why do we want to write it? Because we know it’s going to make us have to turn the lights on, feel the need to watch over our shoulders, but yet we still look for it. What is it that makes you look for it?

Kriken: I love the adrenaline rush. I mean that’s the reason why I do a lot of things, which probably isn’t a good thing. [laughter] But it really, it gets your blood pumping, it gets you thinking, and that rush of endorphins is, as you’re going through going ‘oh my god, oh my god’, and I’m- I tend to be one of those people who puts themselves in the position of the point of view of whatever it is I’m reading, or watching, and that just makes it so much better. Or worse, as the case may be.

Elanor: Yeah.

Kriken: When it comes to what I’m reading, so I love that. Yeah, so just that adrenaline rush and that endorphin rush that you get by thinking about being yourself in that position, and what would you do and actually reacting how this character is reacting. I mean you put people in these kinds of situations and how they react can be really telling. Um and it’s really fun to read how different people interpret a character’s personality based on how they would react to these types of situations.

Xtine: I probably [laughs] I don’t know if I have a good answer to that question, because my general answer is to that is that I don’t seek it out. I actively avoid it, [laughs] in most contexts. But when I do come across a good piece and I just am compelled to read it because I’ve enjoyed that person’s other works or because I see there are a lot of comments on it sometimes I have to construct elaborate framing narratives to make everything okay again. There’s this wonderful, horrible, horrible fic in the Sherlock fandom posted on one of the fic memes called The Spirit Child by velvet_mace. And it’s just. I can’t even describe it to do it justice, it’s just the single most terrifying thing I have ever read and it completely perverts the relationship between John and Sherlock into something that’s sickening and horrifying and you just can’t look away and. Ugh. I mean I was having nightmares about this fic, and like thinking it over and I couldn’t get it out of my head until I decided to construct this elaborate sort of framing narrative for the fic and make it a modern AU of the canonical The Devil’s Foot story where basically Sherlock decides the best way to find out if the residue that he found in someone’s lamp was really the poison that killed people by making them insane was to try it out himself, with John. Basically they go on this big trip and almost die. I decided this had to be a modern AU and really John was just hallucinating the whole thing, it was really okay, none of it had happened. It might defeat the purpose of horror, but that’s the best way I find for me to deal with it.

Elanor: Especially because it’s body horror. Yeah, I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s. I mean it gives me goosebumps thinking about it, because it’s really freaks-

Xtine: It’s an amazing fic, I mean -

Elanor: Oh yeah…which is… right? [replying to Xtine]

Xtine: [Unintelligible] I mean, I could not stop reading. What I said, I don’t tend to seek out that sort of body, like, horror, whereas terror, suspense, things where people explore sort of a psychological terrors, or whatever that I enjoy, I enjoy dark fic because I like seeing what characters need either to be pushed into that extreme where they become sort of the dark fic person, or how they react under those extreme circumstances. And I think that’s just- you know putting them in a pressure cooker and seeing a lot of the big emotions that we wouldn’t necessarily get from canon. But I think that’s why I seek dark fic out, but, yeah, bodily horror things just yeah, they give me the wargh, screaming heebie-jeebies so I tend, er, not to read them. [laughs]

Elanor: It’s not that I always actively seek it out, but it’s kind of that there are a couple of little things that I like to see crossovers with, so things that I’ve come to terms with about that,[laughs] like Slenderman. I can only… you know at first, the first one I read I was like ‘holy crap, what is this?’ [chuckles] And then, um, after actually doing a little research behind it, reading about how it was created off of Something Awful that it was, like, a Photoshop challenge and then they had to troll to see if they could make it into a legit urban legend, outside of the website. And so, you know, kind of having that background then I’m like, ‘oh, okay, let me see everything that someone does with this.’ Like Xtine, I have to rationalise it a little so it’s not quite as …

Xtine: Immediate.

Elanor: Imm- yeah. And from Tashi I have a really great story that she shared. [lots of chuckles] It’s a really good one.

“I’m laughing right now because I want to give a nice, eloquent, sophisticated answer, and all I can keep thinking is, ‘fuck, I don’t know’. I believe the need to tell someone about an unexplained experience is just human nature. Okay, so a few weeks ago I was taking my dog out for a nightly pee, besides my porch light the only other light source in my neighbourhood is this lone street lamp, so you can imagine it was pretty darn dark. Now I here I am, it’s 11 at night, when all of a sudden from the direction of the street lamp I hear this loud KSHANG. It sounded like something large just scraped across a piece of metal and fell to the ground. Following that strange noise this loud gulping, slurping sound immediately came after. Now my neighbourhood is home to a few stray dogs and an occasional deer, but seriously, what the fuck was that? I saw nothing, heard nothing, not even my dog reacted. I go back inside and I end up telling everyone what happened. I wasn’t scared, just terribly excited that this strange moment happened. To this day I can’t explain what I heard because I have no rational answer to give, but my god am I ever going to use that in a story one day. Now if I were told by someone that this vague noise was made by, well the neighbours playing a really loud movie, I probably would not have told my family about it, because who wants to hear about my harrowing moment of my listening to my neighbours watching a movie? [laughing from background] No one. But the story of a strange noise which may or may not have belonged to a monster? Hell yeah! So yeah, I believe it’s just human nature. We’re a very curious species and when we don’t know something we go seeking it out. Even if that something is scary as hell we’re still going to go look, because somebody has to.”

Xtine:I mean it would be sort of a boring, non-story if she was ‘oh movie’, but -

Elanor: Yeah, exactly.

Kriken: - but because of [indistinguishable as two or three people talk]?

Elanor: Exactly. Well and it’s like the first time – ‘cause it’s a sound that I’ve never heard – but the first time that I ever heard a fox scream in the background at a movie or something, I totally was like ‘what the hell was that’, you know? It really kind of made everything tense and stand up on end, and then finding out that it was a fox, you know, it was still kind of oh, you know, could have been the movie, you know, something kind of mundane, it’s an animal, while at the time it was like ‘something just got killed’, or whatever, you know. Like knowing when a rabbit screams when it dies or whatever. You know, that sort of scary bit.

So there are all these things that we kind of enjoy, or not enjoy necessarily but still feel compelled to experience, [laughter] that are things that are either actually horror/supernatural based, or that we go searching out things that are crossovers, you know Sherlock that is based in like a zombie apocalypse. That sort of thing. When you’re looking for those things do you tend to look for one over the other? When you find something in this kind of horror/supernatural genre do you tend to be finding things that are more crossovers with urban legends or the like, or actually within the fandom, say American Horror Story for example?

Kriken: Taking something like a normal cop drama and throwing zombies into the mix versus something like Teen Wolf where werewolves are part of the plot?

Elanor: Exactly.

Kriken: Okay.

Elanor: And when you find something that’s more… that gets under your skin more do you tend to find that they are AUs, or do you tend to find that they are actually from fandoms that are based on purportedly scary material?

Xtine: I think that for me the ones that really got under my skin have been the, like, the crossover fics like Lilyankh’s The Slenderman Case Files for Sherlock, or Velvet_mace’s The Spirit Child, or even - I don’t know how to pronounce her name properly - Chi-Chi-Chimera maybe, - on fanfiction.net The Most Dangerous Game in which Sherlock is a serial killer. I think those ones get under my skin more and bother me more because, even though I, when I say they’re – they’re not expected, even though, you know, I read the description and I know what to expect from it, they aren’t central to the show as a whole and how it stands. Whereas I found that when I was in Supernatural I wouldn’t really qualify it as being horror or terror even when they came across really scary stuff because that was canon, for me. So I didn’t really experience it in the same way as I do when I find like those urban legends crossed with something that doesn’t usually deal with the scary or the supernatural in that respect.

Kriken: Very much agreed. Especially reading a lot of Teen Wolf recently I keep coming across a lot of stuff about werewolves and other supernatural creatures that people are assuming that because werewolves are real these other things are going to be real. Even though they’re not strictly part of the canon you still are in a mind-set where it’s not a huge surprise. Like-

Xtine: Yeah.

Kriken: - you know pretty much how the author’s going to approach them, ‘cause they’ll probably approach it a lot like the show approaches werewolves [noise of agreement]. It’s just part of the plot. Whereas I read an amazing zombie fic that was based in the Suits fandom-

Elanor: Oh gosh!

Kriken: Er. Yeah, and I mean and it was so creepy ‘cause it was about, the city was empty and Mike didn’t know where to go so he went to Harvey’s place and ended up finding him and they hole up there for a while, just like rooting through all of the apartments until there’s nothing left and so they have to try and move and they end up going upstate. And it’s this whole adventure and I will try my best to find a link for it, but I couldn’t find it in my quick search just now. Um, but that is so much, it had such a different feel because it’s so different from the canon, and saying like you said, the serial killer trope, I read a Hikaru No Go fic which was about Shindo being this, like, remarkable serial killer and Toya is the cop who’s chasing him and it’s the back and forth that they have, and it’s- You see the characters and you can tell that their characterisation is there, and you recognise them, but they’re so different from what you’re used to.

Elanor: Yeah. Definitely more AUs and crossovers for me as well. From Tashi: “I think that really depends on the author. I’m surprised how many great writers out there can make a crossover fit so damn perfectly while I’m struggling just to write gender-bending verse. As of this moment I’m writing a crossover between Star Wars and Supernatural, but I find it easy to fit them together despite many of my reviewers having told me they thought that it wasn’t possible. They thought it’d be silly. Come on let’s face it, it is silly, but I think that’s where suspending you disbelief comes in. If you’re willing to read something that sounds so weird you’re already giving it a chance for it to be awesome. If you take it too seriously it’ll fall flat on its face even before the first sentence comes into your brain. But I still believe it comes down to the author, they see something I don’t and vice versa.”

Xtine: I find it interesting that she… I mean to me Supernatural and Star Wars naturally fit together. [laughter] You know two guys going across the galaxy in the, um, Millennium Falcon or [laughter] a [laughter] but I wrote an entire thesis on this shit, like, just give me the – so I have to look out that fic of hers. I am very intrigued now.

Elanor: And here I was going to make the comment that ‘so that does make Sam Chewbacca, right?’ [laughter]

Xtine: If I could do a Chewbacca noise I would have thrown in one there.

Elanor: But then we’d have to entertain the people that, and I’m sure they do, they ship Han and Chewie. Which-

Xtine: Rule 34.

Elanor: I was going to say, more power to them. I just don’t really want to think about Chewie like [laughter] anyway.

Xtine: [Chewbacca Noise] [laughter]

Elanor: Nicely Done.

Xtine: I have a How To Speak Wookie book, what can I say? [laughter]

Elanor: Oh man. There’s a reason I’m friends with you. [laughter]

Are there any kind favourite sorts of AUs and crossovers you guys have? Like, ones that you see that it’s kind of a scenario and you’re like ‘oh, well I’m definitely going to read that!’ um, you know?

Kriken: I almost always, no matter what fandom I’m currently reading in, I will bookmark the zombie fics. I really will. It’s just it can be taken in so many directions. It can be the silly kind-

Elanor: Uh huh.

Kriken: It can be, like the really slow build figure where the zombies are slow and really dumb, or it could be the really fast paced ones where they kind of, they move in crowds and they’re a little bit faster, they tend to, you know, find ways to track people kind of thing, so it’s almost like they’ve got a collective hive mind kind of thing. There are so many ways to do that trope, and again it could be really interesting to see how far people go. Especially when they’re confronted with a zombie of another character that they know in canon. How do they react to that?

Elanor: For sure.

Kriken: I find that very fun, and a lot of it is because of that, they’re going to see people that look like someone that they used to know, but they’re not really that person.

Elanor: Yeah. Definitely.

Xtine: Um, for me I don’t think I really have an approach of that nature. In fact I’m sort of the opposite. I mean, I get into the fandom that I’m in and then if I find a well written fic that might lead me into other things, for instance The Baker Street Record, which I have actually yet to read, but I have looked it over and it looks pretty awesome and it’s a canonical Holmes fic that crosses it with House of Leaves. Wanting to read and understand that fic is the reason I went out and bought House of Leaves [laughter] to read. So I find that well written fic in my primary fandom will lead me to secondary fandoms, versus secondary fandoms making me want to read a primary fandom fic more.

Elanor: I think for me, yeah, it’s more that within the fandom I have tropes that I will always read. Like in Sherlock I will definitely always go for serial killers. NCIS I always will go for serial killer!Tony, that one yes, 100% of the time I will read that fic no matter how good or bad it is. And, er, also, like the dystopian future or the apocalypse, any sort of thing like that. I also enjoy, obviously as I’m in Teen Wolf too, you know, creature fic. Whether someone is magically turned into a werewolf or not, or something like that. And I know that Tashi had said that she definitely goes for dystopian future as well, especially because “things where it involves the character going into the future, like the Croatoan 2014 episode in Supernatural, it’s scary to know that you fucked up so bad that everyone in the future is suffering because of you.”

So, while we’d said that we had, you know, different things that we will tend to read based on different criteria, is there anything that makes you kind of push your limits because you know that in this circumstance it’ll be okay? Do you ever find your squicks being bent in more horror/terror kind of a scenario instead of something more straight-up sensual? Like for my example is – and of course I can’t remember it and I can’t find it [laughter] – but I read Dean and Zombie! Castiel, Castiel was kept in a, I think it was Cas, it might have been Sam, I’m not 100% sure, but the person who was a zombie was not Dean and they were kept in, like, a cage in the back, or in the basement or something and he, like, he cared for them and he loved them and … yeah [laughter] there was definitely Dean/Zombie!person sex. And, you know, I was okay with it because it was framed within knowing that it was this bad, horrible things had happened, and so there were zombies, and that’s why instead of it just being straight up-

Kriken: Necrophilia.

Elanor: Necrophilia, yeah. You know. Though I have read that too, you know. So I guess I can’t say that’s a squick, but it’s a boundary that I don’t actively go out looking for, but having found it in this I was okay with it because of the scenario. Does that make sense?

Is there anything that you guys…? You guys feel that way too, [laughter]?

Xtine: You’re not looking for reassurance now?

Elanor: Yeah. I know that one thing too that I can think of that actually we kind of wrote, you and me actually, Xtine, for the big Sherlock kink meme that I don’t know that we ever posted or cleaned up or anything, but it was a, kind of a snuff fic.

Xtine: Oh, god, yes.

Elanor: Yeah. That was something that I don’t think we would ever do otherwise.

Xtine: It was a really well written prompt. I think that prompt was something like, ‘when John and Sherlock have sex the first time, you know, like, it blows John’s head off, literally’.

Elanor:Yeah.

Xtine: That is, like you’re going they have really good, oh my god, no. [laughter]

Elanor: That’s one where as the reader you know it’s coming and so it’s that dread and worry of, you know, er, it’s coming, it’s coming, when’s it going to happen? Oh my god. You know, the building suspense and worry. So-

Kriken: My squicks when it comes particularly to horror and/or terror, I don’t cross those boundaries a whole lot, my biggest one that I’m not very good at reading is major character death. Those, I just can’t get past it sometimes unless it’s the type where they come back as something else. People can still classify it as character death because still have to work that through that emotional component, when it happens, even if you know that something is going to happen again later, you still have to go through that whole emotional toil part. And it’s very rare that I will actually click on one of those with the exception of knowing that the person the person who is writing this or dealing with it has dealt with other things in a, in a good way and so you have some level of trust.

Elanor: Mmhmm, yeah.

Xtine: My bou- my squicks are becoming more and more flexible the more fanfiction that I read, it seems. And it’s, for me it’s really if I, if there’s a really good author, like you said as well, if there’s someone who I know they’ve written other things really well I’ll be willing to give it a try. And also apparently with writing, on the rare occasion that I do it, if a good prompt really sort of is like a sucker punch to the gut and I think ‘oh my god how can that be expanded upon?’ then I might be inclined to try my hand. And don’t tend to post these things that Elanor and I put together, but, l don’t really have a set boundary, I guess, in that respect. I mean I haven’t read, or thought out, or written necrophilia fic but I can see how a Dean/Zombie!Castiel in that situation would sort of frame the issue differently. So I can see how when you think you have strong, set lines, they might be more flexible than you can imagine.

Elanor: It can create new squicks too, I bet. Reading – going into a fic saying ‘okay, I’ve read this situation before’, or, ‘I think I know what I’m going into,’ you know if you went into a zombie story and then finding out that ‘oh, okay well that’s something that I am not okay with, hello’. Like when I read The Shining, and all of a sudden, well, my in real life squick, ‘okay now we have to turn the lights on before we go into the rooms’. [laughter] You know, so, so in a way, you know, it can help stretch and it can also create new boundaries of now you’re afraid of the dark. Hahaha. And you’re sixteen years old. [laughter] So, which, you know, to all of our listeners out there if you’re afraid of the dark that’s totally fine.

Kriken: You’re in good company.

Elanor: Exactly. So, um, yeah. And on that line too then, Tashi had said that she’s “in the process of finding what her squicks are, similar to how reading along the way finds new things.” So she is of that as well, and then one thing that she does stay away from, in all forms, is snuff. So she would gladly miss out on our, our creation.

Xtine: And now I’m thinking through that and wondering how far it was to being completed and postable.

Elanor: Um it was-

Xtine: Thanks. Thanks for that. [laughter] Not something I needed to revisit in my head.

Elanor: I think we were actually done with it. But we were both like ‘I don’t really want to read through it again to have to-‘

Xtine: If I recall correctly I don’t think we actually finished it, I think maybe we talked of where it was going to go and then said ‘I think I need to write some happy porn right now’. And then we did. [laughter]

Elanor: So we dealt with that by doing happy porn.

Xtine: Happy porn!

Elanor: Exactly. To make things all better. Is there any kind of, you know because some people can just go from reading some things right into, back into whatever, but I know that I have to write happy porn or if it’s a movie and I’m at home I have to pause it and watch other things in the middle. Like when I watched Paranormal Activity, I paused every, like every twenty minutes or so and watched something stupid on YouTube. [laughs] Because I was, you know, I lived in a big house alone, and the house made noises like the house in the movie made noises-

Xtine: Oh god.

Elanor: And I definitely slept with my door locked and had all sorts of, like, freakout for a while. Um, is there is anything else that you guys do to kind of, do you find the need to go to a happy place after you read it? Depending on the subject matter, or the circumstances in which you originally read something? Or do you have to, like, set yourselves up in, like a well-lit space before you [quiet laughter in the background starts] partake? [laughter] You know, which is totally legit. This meta chat might be just themed ‘Jen is trying to find validation for being the way she is’. I think that should be the subtitle. [laughter]

Xtine: Well before we watched, like mainlined American Horror Story definitely was like the middle of the afternoon and bright and sunshiny. I find that I have more of that response to movies than fanfiction, with fanfiction I only need, like, fluffy happy backup if I’m reading something really angsty and well done angst. Like Alone on the Water is that the name of that Sherlock fic where he has a brain tumour and he dies at the end? That one it actually leave me actually sobbing into Kleenex every time, then I need something happy making. But with the exception of velvet_mace’s fic I usually can just go ‘oh that was really creepy and horrible, interesting’ and move on with my day. [laughter] And it doesn’t really get under my skin to the same extent. But movies, videos yeah, I usually need it to be daylight lots of lights turned on.

Kriken: Movies and videos I need to have another person nearby.

Xtine: Oh yeah. [laughter]

Kriken: I make sure that there’s someone that I could – even if they’re not in the same room – so as soon as it’s done I’ve to someone to go share a space with. [laughter] And with fic I find I need that less but it certainly helps. I don’t bounce very well between opposite emotions when it comes to that type of thing so I can’t go directly from reading something that creeped me the hell out to something that’s light and fluffy because it’s jarring, I find.

Xtine: Okay.

Kriken: And not as comforting as it sounds like a lot of other people find. I like to sit and think about it, but I have to do that in the space of someone, someone else. [laughs]

Elanor: For sure. Yeah, I definitely am of the, er needing to look at stupid things, [laughter] watch the kittens fight with each other, but not really fight because they’re adorable little kittens and how hard can they actually fight?! That sort of thing.

Kriken: Playful sloths.

Xtine: I’ve never actually had to stop in the middle of something er Elanor, so I think you raise that to a new level.

Elanor: Yeah. Well, I and – yeah that was definitely a whole- side fact too of watching that movie- watched it Halloween night-

Kriken: Oh god.

Elanor: Trick or treaters coming, so…

Kriken: So you’re a masochist.

Elanor: Yeah. [laughter] But I was er, I had the whole set up of ‘well, this is probably actually going to be stupid and not really scary’-

Kriken: Oh noo.

Elanor: Based on- ‘cause the whole hype I was like I was so sceptical. And I watched it I’m like [nervous] “oh, okay, er, okay so I have heard that sound before fuuuuck, okay.” Um, so yeah, so I am a masochist and so then I have to atone for it with fluffy kittens. But similarly too, you know, I don’t have that reaction with fic necessarily. I think maybe the only time, well, I’m going to put a plug in here for Tashi I did have that, she wrote the great One Room Over which is a Slenderman and Cabin Pressure. And you know, kind of the, it was a really, had a great build to it and it, you know after I’d finished and it was like ‘oh, holy cow’. Then I had to, er, I had to do something to cleanse my mind especially because it was such a, you know, created the visuals like a scary movie creates.

Xtine: And the thing is all through, talking about things being jarring, I mean the fact that Cabin Pressure is almost, like, offensively happy [laughs] and humorous. I mean it’s just such light-hearted-

Elanor: Exactly, especially for -

Xtine: -created.

Elanor:- being a story around the character Martin who is-

Xtine: - the most adorably hapless person in the history of ever?

Elanor: Yes, the only way it could have been, I think it could have been, er, more terrifying is if it had been with Arthur.

Xtine: Arthur, yeah.

Elanor: Since he is pretty much a fluffy bunny. [chuckles] Different reactions to visual versus reading it is interesting. How we’ve had, we have a variety of reactions and such.

Xtine: Which is funny, for horror for me, because I find that it’s usually the other way around for other things. Like for things that are really angsty or emotional, literature fic gets me a lot more than movies. I tend to sort of have a little distance and, like, self-mocking ‘oh, ha ha, you’re upset about this, I wonder how this is going to end? Are they going to get together?’ And I sort of that have that going on in the back of my head when I’m watching a movie scene. But when I read, well, I mean you know, sometimes I come on and I’m [mimics crying] ‘I just read this fic and… and I can’t even’ and you know, so I think it’s interesting that horror strikes me differently, I don’t know if it does that to either of you.

Kriken: Oh certainly. And to transition into a different type too, art also I have a very different reaction to. ‘Cause it’s a single, a single image usually [noise of agreement] it’s just like a still frame and the way it can be done… as an example there was a piece of fanart by creaturexiii and she posted a very posted a very simple picture of Stiles just kind of sitting on top of what looks like a rooftop, very relaxed looking with a bat in his hand and a metal dog mask on.

Elanor: Ohhh yeah!

Kriken: I had such a visceral reaction to this, because it does, it comes across as sinister but the way his hand is resting on the bat is very relaxed and very open. So it’s like you are imagining what’s going through his head and how, like the confidence that this kind of brings. But that, and that image, like I immediately, ‘cause it was linked by saucery, or saucefactory on tumblr because she had written a piece of dark fic to go along with it. And I don’t think I would have enjoyed the fic as much as I did if I hadn’t seen that image first, because it had already cem- like immediately had cemented this headcanon in me, oh and it was SO good.

Elanor: Well, and I know that too I have a really visceral reaction to masks, um, certain kinds of masks depending on how much the face is covered, I cannot look at the fic. The best example is the Scarecrow in the new Batman movies, his-

Xtine: Oh god yeah.

Elanor: His scarecrow masks? I have to cover my eyes, I have to look away. Or, like it’s a thing with faces, the creature in Pan’s Labyrinth that has his eyes in his hands instead of on his face? [shuddering type sound] Ugggghhhh. [laughter]

Xtine: Yeah the creature with the eyeballs in his hands still gets me, the whole.

Kriken: See to me the creatures were fantastical to the point where they weren’t quite as scary as the humans in that movie.

Elanor: Ah, true.

Kriken: The humans-

Xtine: This is very true. They were more frightening.

Kriken and Elanor: Yeah.

Xtine: But in a different way. Yeah, too. Like I think one’s the fantastical horror versus the “oh my god people really do this.”

Elanor: Yeah, well and [someone starts to speak] oops, sorry. And yeah that’s something actually is kind of a sentence tossed around once in a while in Supernatural, I remember, about how monsters they can handle but people [shudders] ugggghhhh. The creatures not being so bad but the knowing what people can do. And truly there’s some horrible things in real life, where you know... and then into a fandom which it can be happy funtimes into scary people in there, so...

Kriken: I love that trope because you’ll see it everywhere. There are episodes like that in Buffy. There are episodes-

Elanor: Yeah.

Kriken: - like that in the X files. Where you’re anticipating something supernatural, but in the end when it turns out to be this human you’re kind of scared and you understand why, or you think you understand why leading up, but as soon as you find out that it’s not what you thought it was it like amps it up, but only at the very end. It’s so bizarre.

Elanor: Yeah.

Xtine: It was The Benders by the way.

Elanor: There we go. The Benders.

Xtine: But I agree that, yeah, having a person be responsible for some things can make things scarier, because you know it- if you don’t believe in ghosts and monsters you can rationalise it away, but people you have to believe in people. So…

Elanor: Yeah. It could be your neighbour right now next getting a large knife to come in through the wall and, oh my god they’re going to kill you. [laughter] But it’s just that nice person next door, it could never be them. [disbelieving] Uhh huh.

Kriken: Of course not.

Elanor: [laughs] Of course not. How many different interviews with people with people who knew serial killers, you know, that sort of thing?

So we’ve had all sorts of fun discussions and all sorts of fun things come up and mega thanks to Tashi for sending in her answers, bummer that she couldn’t be here with us in voice, but definitely glad to have her contributions. If you or anyone you know might be interested in one of our metachats later, or if you know of any exciting topics that we could talk about definitely drop us a line in our comments. We have comments available on our website, on our tumblr, you can tweet us back at twitter, on Livejournal, anywhere you can find us you can definitely drop us a line.

So thanks to our participants, Xtine and Kriken, thanks for coming, I’m Elanorofcastile, and I hope you guys enjoyed, thanks a lot. Bye!

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 38: Slashers on the Street

2013-02-23T12:21:10Z

Ep 38 Slashers on the Street Transcript

Hosts: elanorofcastile  
Reporting on: Tesla*Con

Elanor: Welcome to the Slashers on the Street segment for episode 38 of Slashcast. This is elanorofcastile and this month I went to TeslaCon a steampunk convention in Madison Wisconsin. This year it was the first weekend in December, so I had kind of been aware and kind of looking and admiring the pretty things in steampunk and so I thought well it’s just down the road, why don’t I go? And so, I went, and it was an adventure in many ways because I went by myself too and I didn’t know anyone that was going to be there, except for one vendor and I had a lot of fun.

The neat thing about this convention is that unlike any other convention that I’d been to, it had a theme to it that was really tied into events of the whole weekend. So it was A Trip to the Moon, so it started out with an opening ceremony, where we were in a spaceship and they did a whole acting presentation, where our spaceship was launched to the moon, crashed on the moon and the bad guy you know took responsibility for the crash and we met some aliens and it was really awesome, really interesting.

So it was kind an immersive event, so kind of throughout the weekend different things would happen, like the bad guy would pop up and monologue and have an insult off with the captain of the ship and different things like that would happen. And actually on our way to the moon, we did pick up a passenger, it was Santa. So Santa Claus was around for the weekend and you could go talk to him and tell him if you’ve been good or bad. So that was kind of fun.

So besides kind of the themed events that went with the weekend, they also had some panels and I went to a few and one of them was the panel about women’s suffrage, and so the bummer was that the person who was going to be leading the panel didn’t show up but there was all of us that were waiting there really interested and wanting to talk about, ans so instead we all decided to adjourn to the team room they had, and we all talked and got to know each other, it was really interesting because we were a range of ages we were all hanging out from like my age which is 20s – 30s into, you know, few women that were into and over their 60s. And so talking about their range of experiences, a couple of gals it was their very first convention that they’d ever been to, I know one of the older women had said she’s been going to Star Trek conventions since the 70s. So all the kind of talking about the different types of conventions, especially science fiction conventions, and kind of how convention culture has changed through the years. One of the girls who was mine age, has been since she was a baby going to Doctor Who conventions with her parents. So it was kind of fun.

And then, you know, it was kind of neat to hear about Worldcon, which I hadn’t really been aware of, and that’s The World Science Fiction Convention and actually it’s been going on since 1939, whch holy cow, you know, long time for conventions. It’s you know, wherever there’s been something that people want to talk about and get together, I guess there’s always going to be conventions.

Couple other of the panels I went to, where kind of themed around sexuality and gender and so, one of them was specifically about sexuality and gender identity and it was really neat, it was a panel that was moderated by a professor from the University of Wisconsin and the people on the panel, there was Karina Cooper, who is romance author, she’s written lesbian steampunk fiction, as well as, Lyndzi Miller who is a burlesque dancer and Scott Velasquez who is a gay blogger in the steampunk community, and Kevin D. Steil who is a steampunk community archivist. So there was a great variety of people who talked about different issues and things in the community and things are kind of welcoming and different about the community, since it’s already about presenting an alternate view of the world , then it just naturally kind of fits that queer sexuality, gender identity, different things like that are going to be, you know a part of that, and so kind of the different things like. And then talking about, wanting to be presenting that same sort of openness and welcoming into the mainstream, of making kind of the conversations to of yes we can used it here but how can we use that to broaden views outside.

So that was a really neat panel and then another that was kind of the fun of the evening as it was one of the After Dark panels, which you know, was from many conventions. Anything which was sort of adult, and actually in this on I got carded which was exciting, it was about Victorian and Edwardian pornography because at that time photography was the cutting edge technology, and as we know with the internet anything that is cutting edge technology will inevitably be used for porn. And so, talking about different things, about the images that people were interested in, kind of the amusing fact that you could date the photographs, buy accessories and silly things like that. Because even though the lady might totally be completely naked and hanging out with a girlfriend and touching each other and having a good time, they are probably wearing a hat for some reason, and that will help you.

And then also the fun thing was, there was a common theme, I don’t know why, but there were a lot of really nice chairs. So besides the fact that you got a titillating image of a well do to, or well appointed, shall we say gentleman or nicely put together lady, you also got a really hot chair. So I guess it appeals to a lot of different people. And you know it was 300 slides of erotic photography wow, who knew. It was a great presentation of seeing things that were really artful and pretty tame by some of the things that are out there today, but then at the same time you get that the Victorians not necessarily the most buttoned up of people like they are so often stereotyped. So that was fun!

Kind of the other neat panel that I checked out part of was a group of people there, talking about their book The Steampunk Guide to Sex and so, they talked about, because with steampunk and science fiction come different things like, the inevitability of tentacle sex, you know, because when you’re gonna go for it, you might as well go for it. Then they talk about how, ok now it’s ok we can create a website, we can have Archive of Our Own, we can have Fanfiction. net, we can have any number of websites where we can just put stuff up, put up erotica. But hen at the time, it was about how they had to sneak it in, or be careful about getting it printed, and the lengths they went to get it printer.dSo that was kind of fun.

So yeah overall it was a great weekend. I met some awesome people from the area and from out of town. And danced my feet of, both at the Grand Ball and stuck my head in at the Steerage Ball, and enjoyed some music and watching the folks dance while I rested my feet. And so yeah it was a great time, and I would definitely recommend this to anyone who has any sort of interest in steampunk, there’s all sort of information and things.

And next year’s theme is A Congress of Steam, so it’s going to be talking about all kind of ways that people do steampunk throughout the fandom and there’s going to be, one of the big things is that they are going to be opening tickets to people internationally, that they can get the tickets for free as part of a lottery, because it’s going to be only, I think they are only doing 1000 tickets for people in the US, and then outside the US they are doing another 300-400 and those will be for free. So trying to get a wider audience for the fandom just to kind of talk about all the different sort of things. Which you know as people who are in these sort of fandoms, are kind of aware of sometimes the north American bias that stuff comes through, so this is similar t that they recognize that there is a need to talk and spread out. So that was really cool that they thought about that. So this year was 1400 and next year it will be 1300 people. And it’s Halloween weekend next year so definitely check it out if you are interested. There will be a link about the convention in the post-show post and yeah, so that’s what I had. So if you have any interest in reporting from a convention or writing something that you don’t mind one of us reading and reenacting interpretively in some way for you. Drop us a line, we have our website, out tumblr, out twitter, our livejournal and you can always tell us what you think. And if you have any other comments feel free to post them. Enjoy thanks!

 

 Transcribed by: imifos

Episode 38: Metachat Transcript

2013-02-11T21:06:28Z

Metachat Transcript for Episode 38

Hosts: wook77, djin7, elanorofcastile, midnitemaraud_r
  

Wook: Welcome to the Metachat for Slashcast Episode 38. This is Wook77 and I’m sitting here with djin7 aka DJ, midnitemauraud_r aka Lisa, and elanorofcastile aka eco or jet, and we are going to be talking about fandon wank. So the first topic I personally think that we should be talking about is: What are some of the wanks that stick out in your head?
Lisa would like to go first.

Lisa: I’ll go first with MsScribe, cause that became one of the biggest ones although it was never actually posted on fandom wank it was posted on a separate com called Bad Penny which was made specifically because it was so big it wouldn’t fit on fandon wank. (laughs) I was kind of around for that one..so…

DJ: Yes I recall that one quite well myself.

Wook: MsScribe was one the wanks that stick in my head as well, I mean it had like everything that makes a great wank. It had, sock puppets, it had the plucky girl detective, it had…

DJ: Charitywank .

Wook: Yeah .. it had so much stuff behind it too. It was sort of a behind the scenes in “old fandom”.

Elanor: Yeah, well for me, I didn’t really come into the fandom until like that had already happened so I didn’t read about it until a while down the road. It was really really interesting to read about, versus actually being able to kind of be there and experience it as it was unfolding.

Wook: So Lisa why does it stick in your head?

Lisa: Well that was the first time, I really heard the entire story. I’d heard all the stuff about the Harry/Ginny fandom vs the Harry/Hermione and all the crap that went on before that, you know. But I wasn’t really in that part of fandom, so I didn’t really know anything about it and it was just, I couldn’t believe all the stalking and the sock puppets and the just, how extensive it was. I mean who has that kind of time? (laughs)

Wook: I know right? (inaudible)

Lisa: It was just insanity to me you know that shipping became such a huge, oh God, insane.

DJ: It was her need for popularity of course we’ve all witnessed the frightening things that happen when anybody does that. This was particularly amusing in that she did all the things that anybody claims they never do and they were all proven by screencaps and locked posts and all those type of things. It was a huge investigation involved. Like thousands of people. Trying to break down this whole A&E worthy detective story.

Lisa: I’m looking at the thing now, there is like 10 chapters.Huge!

Elanor: And it definitely cast a shadow over kind of future happenings. When people were trying to do similar things worked in the back of your head.

Lisa: It pulled together all the scary aspects of fandom that people are like the outing and freaking cursing the..

DJ: The lengths that people will go to, to become friends with or to become noticed by people that they maybe admire or they are fans of, such as authors in the internet space, it’s ridiculous to me. And that’s why this is such a great mock-worthy wank, because it’s ridiculous to me how much this particular one person, if all the stories are indeed true, how much this person did in order to gain the trust of the so called inner circle of early fans in those days. Classic.

Lisa: They brought down he Gryffindor tower archive.

DJ: Yes. Well you know shutting down of archives due to insane sort of trolling and things of that nature happen quite a lot, and particularly in the Harry Potter fandom, it must happen in another fandoms anyone?

Elanor: Supernatural, Yeah Supernatural it was the anon meme that shut down, that went crazy

Lisa: That was because it was supposed to be an anything goes anon meme.

Elanor: And it was crazy!

Lisa: Someone posted a promt that had Misha’s real son and wanted a porn story, you know, with Misha’s infant, I mean he is a toddler isn’t he?

Elanor: Yeah if that was too far for people, I mean holy crap the amount of porn that involves the guys and their dogs. It’s crazy!

Lisa: Yeah but you know you get a real life person and a dog.. I don’t know

Elanor: Yeah there is every once in a while you go through a wave of bleh, anyway.

Wook: Speaking of anon memes the star trek 2009 kink meme closed, although I guess it would have got into unfunny fandom instead of..

DJ: Unfunny business?

Wook: Yeah instead of the fandom wank cause of the fact that it was racism wank.

DJ: Which does not belong in the mocking wank forum which is fandom wank of course. Fandom wank is there to mock not to talk about unfunny things like racism or sexism or things of that nature.

Lisa: Well that’s why we should talk about too how everything branched of into all those comms opened up on Journalfen, the Unfunny Business, and then there was Clairvoyant wank. As it was first occurring people would post, do a lookout for this.

Wook: Some were like the elementary school of wank, maybe you graduate the high school of wank some day. That’s how it seems to me.

Lisa: There was OTF wank that had nothing to do with fandom.

Wook: There’s wankity wank. Where people are wanking in the fandon wank community. And remember what wank was it, like somebody came in and they started wanking and it went to wankity wank and the person followed it to wankity wank and they were like shall we make a wankity wank wank (laughs)? Constantly just wanking. OMG it was hilarious. So what other wanks stick in your head? Other than the MsScribe story cause for me, there is one ultimate wank. If you know me, you know which one I am talking about. My Wife is a Horse. I know that it has nothing to do with fandom and it doesn’t have a lot to do with slash but the fact if this guy thought he was married to his horse, and his girlfriend was a human and he wondered if his wife was pregnant and if she had cheated on him, but it was a horse. I mean come on it’s the ultimate wank, it’s hilarious.

DJ: I know, I mean that’s the stuff that fandom wank was designed for.

Lisa: The horse was pregnant.

Wook: Yeah.

DJ: So this guy posts on a polyamory list of some kind or some sort of community where polyamory couples gather to talk about things which is great, that there are things like that on LJ and things of that nature. So he posted this problem he’s having with his wife and his girlfriend in this polyamorous relationship and he was saying that he wants his wife and his girlfriend to be monogamous.

Wook: Stalion mentality

DJ: Cause he can go around sowing his seed everywhere but they should only be his alone. And so this apparently this community responded in kind, they were not wanky about it, they said you know blah blah blah let’s talk about this and let’s see where you are coming from and let’s see why you are coming from there. I guess eventually it got out to the point where somebody called him on it and it turned out that his wife the so called relationship dilemma that he’s been having is a horse.

Wook: Yeah

DJ: Like a real horse. Not a horse faced woman, but an actual horse.

Elanor: I think that my favourite part of that was reliving it when I shared it with my friend Christine, and she had never heard it before and so she was reading the post and she’s like “What…WHAT.. OMG WHAT, WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME, Why did you tell me about this?” and she said “I am never going to be the same”.

Wook: My favourite part of this is actually related to real life, I dog sit a lot and I was dogsiting everything this fucker appeared on OTF, everytime I was dog sitting for these extremely conversative Christrian people and I used their computer I would click and I was like god it’s the horse fucker. Every frikking time this wank showed up somebody linked the video of real life pony fuckers and I wouldn’t realise andso I’d click on the links to the video. And this video is like a train wreck you can’t stop watching. And they are talking about the fact that they have a pony that they get fucked by regularly. Have you guys seen this video? So the infamous line that sticks in my head from this video is, she’s talking about how they first met, blah blah blah, and he came over and she wanted to introduce him to her pony, cause you know she was committed to her pony and she takes him down the barn and she like and seriously ‘well and then the next thing I knew my pants were down around my ankles and we were going at it, so I figured he was either into it or not but this would really show him” and he’s like “oh and I really enjoyed it mm hmm sloppy seconds”
Oh my god, OMG OMG OMG you start hyperventilating, like why am I watching this?

DJ: We’re gonna have to warn for bestiality talk when we put this up, we’re gonna trigger someone or something, we’re gonna be on fandom wank.

Lisa: I know I know One of my favourites things and it’s here on the page. Somebody wrote you know the Mr Ed song, they changed the words to go with the thing. And it says “A horse is a horse of course of course, unless you use your horse for intercourse and then of course the horse is my very special wife. I went to the source and asked the horse and she didn’t hurt me which I endorse unless of course, I hurt my for taking another to her bed.

Elanor: I think that besides the fact of the wanks , I think the comments are usually the very best things out of the entire shindig you know. All the different things people come up with like the song, it’s really fun.

DJ: (inaudible)

Elanor: Yeah they are the best.

DJ: If you post a wank apparently the point, of posting a wank is to point out the complete stupid of whoever it is that’s doing the stupid thing that’s worthy of mocking. And then you wait for all the comments to come in so that you can laugh for days and days. I mean that’s usually an ideal situation.

Wook: And I love that when you google His Wife google autofills at least on every computer I’ve ever been on, I know if it tailors to each individual, autofills a horse. Once I type in ‘his wife’ it finishes with ‘a horse’, it’s the recommended search term.

Elanor: I’m going to find out if it does that for me.

Wook: You guys should try it and see if it’s just me.

Elanor: yes its’ third one down for me.

DJ – How do you spell it?

Lisa: Just ‘His Wife’

DJ: Just ‘His Wife’, that’s it? Oh yeah I got it. His was

Elanor: And this is friend’s computer as well.

Wook: It was on Wired. It actually made sort of a well known area where this stupid wank has spread out into the world.

Elanor: If you click on it in google, the first is the fandom wank wiki entry the second is Horse of Mitt Romney's wife eliminated from Olympics team.

DJ – I got the fandom wank wiki, I got wired.com and three I got Mitt Romney.. (inaudible)

Wook: Oh my god I got the same results as DJ.

Lisa: I have the wired third and then abc news.

DJ: The entire (inaudible) is made up of Mitt Romney crap.and then it goes to Trigger Wikipedia.

Elanor: Oh man, I have tears, I have tears and we are only a little while into the conversation.

DJ: You can’t really beat that, I mean there’s been some pretty good ones, I witnessed mostly primarily Harry Potter ones.

Wook: They always seem to be on fandon wank.

Lisa: The astral plane

DJ: Or the Snape wife of that’s a classic, Snape wives

Wook: The altar in the corner of her room that she used to pray to Snape to (inaudible) I like the characters but not enough to create an altar and pray to them.
Lisa: But they fought with each other over who was actually the one receiving the real clairvoyant dreams of Alan Rickman or Snape or whoever it was. They were accusing each other of lying, “no I had the dream , not I had the dream” (laughs) I think the saddest thing thought is the, one of them had young children.

Wook: Another one was a mother daughter team that were both Snape wives.

Elanor: Yeah, I remember that.

Wook: Oh gosh, Snape wives, I forgot about the Snape wives until DJ whatever you said that triggered it in my head.

DJ: Ok you can make up something really bad to that. Thanks you for that! Also I mean there is the crystal funk which of course is not a Harry Potter funk it was Lord of the Rings wank originally. About the girl, she photoshopped herself into with the Lord of the Rings cast. (inaudible) she acted as if she was in all these photos or whatever it was. The best part about the wank of course was when she started getting wanked she started to defend herself, her nanny, aka her sockpuppet started to anonymously come in and defend her honour which of course just lead to…

Lisa: She was selling them though? She was selling something..

Wook: Yeah additionally she sold sketches of Dom on her website which were clearly photographs that had been manipulated to look like sketches again using image manipulation software. And you too can buy one for only $20.

DJ: They call this one the wank that ate the universe, apparently. The “Pasted on yay” that’s where that comes from and that’s fabulous.

Elanor: Oh man thank you, that’s awesome

Wook: Ok so what wanks stick in your head?

DJ: The one where Caina wanted to rewrite Half-Blood Prince. I don’t know if you remember that one. She didn’t like how Harry and Ginny got together so she was going to rewrite it the harmonian way.

Wook: Well there is only one true way and that would be harmonian.
Can I just tell you, fandom wank had got into my real life because it has definitely kinda stirred me away from Harmonian and then my boss confesses that she thought Harry and Hermione would get together at the end and she was very disappointed. And I’m like OMG you’re a Harmonian and it seriously just lashed out and she was like what? And I please don’t fess up to being a harmonian ever again that’ kind of horrifying to me.

Lisa: Oh god, the whole interview too with the staff from mugglenet.

Wook: And I quoted the anvil sized hint line that JKR did these Harry/Hermione people are dropped anvil sized hints.
Then there was always the Bartending in the Dark wank.

Lisa: Ah yeah that was classic! Hogwarts elite right?

DJ: And it was a big deal to get sorted there. I never went there but I believe it was quite the process. It wasn’t like oh I want to join this community and I feel I am a Gryffindor or something. Like that you had to fill out copious amounts of things and all the judges would judge you and they would give you a ranking according to how you complete your multiply amounts of quizzes or whatever it was. Then you got he house that you got and that was it.

Lisa: Wouldn’t people vote on it in the comments?

Wook: Yeah, yeah every member of the community got to vote on what house they wanted. And if Slytherin people started voting you into Slytherin then the rest of the houses were oh right see ya! I guess you’re Slytherin! Cause that was considered the “leach house” and so people used to really slither-push and so they would call it if they could see it being slither-push and this guy caught on slither-pushing and by now the word slither-push does not seem like a really word to me cause I said it so much. And so he like, dude I’m so so Slytherin, I bartend in the dark!

DJ: And suddenly he’s a Slytherin.

Wook: Yeah I think they quizzed him. And then furiosity wrote that fic about bartending in the dark and it was a Harry/Draco fic and it was awesome. Oh I love that fic so much it’s one of my favourite Harry/draco fics. Oh my god I have to link so that everybody can read this swesomeness of bartending in the dark.

DJ: You gotta link the funk too cause the funk is funny.

Wook: Oh my gosh it really was...

DJ: And the he disses Hufflepuff and Gryffindor. You know he’s all emo and goth and he’s wife is scared of him, it’s funny.

Lisa: And he started wailing “it’s just darkness”

DJ: It’s just dark, very DARK dun dun. OMG every time he walks into a room, organs play. Funny.

Wook: Alright any other wanks?

Lisa: What are your thoughts on Yaoi?

Wook: Yeah how do you say it?

Lisa: y-ou-i?

Wook: y-a-ou-i? I’m sure we’ll corrected a million timed by people. Yeah I find that one, I don’t really remember all that was involved with it. But I think that’s kind of funny that this whole has sort of intruded through the rest of fandom and people say it and they don’t really realise that it links back to fandom wank.

Elanor: Yeah.

DJ: Right right. The phrases that come from fandom wank they can be epic and they will forever stick in our heads whether you know or not that they came from there or not. But a lot of the great quips that you’ll see the idioms and stuff that are fandom related the thoughts on Yaoi or however you say it was a particular anime fan she posted in fandom wank generally just a bunch of her opinion with regards to same sex pairings in anime fandoms in general she just went on and on and on and actually did a two part entry about it and to that end it just ended into a tl;dr sort of long running joke, where we don’t really care and tell us how you really feel and so it became the situation we are in now where anybody goes off taking about anything that they want to talk about or waxing poetically about a particular item in fandom or a particular thing, everyone’s yeah but what are your thoughts on yaoi? *laughs* which is the funny part of it.

Wook: And everytime I say it, I expect people to know what it means and then suddenly somebody doesn’t know what it means when I’ve said it and they actually give me their thoughts and I lose my shit everytime. Like ugly ugly ugly snorts coming out of my nose, like sobs of laughter when they actually give me their thoughts.

DJ: Apparently your thoughts on Yaoi are it’s hard to pronounce. Nobody seems to know.

Wook: Yeah I love ‘the server is robost’. Everytime the server goes down I say it.

Elanor: I say that all the time! About all sorts of stuff and get a look sometimes,l ike What? And I’m like ‘the server is robust’. *Laughs* I think I said it to an IT guy on my last job and he thought I was being serious I’m like oh I don’t know what that means, I’m just like fandom wank. I’m like Oh God! Don’t ask me questions.

Wook: Yeah, it’s always awkward to then have to explain it like you thoughts on yaoi I actually just link somebody to it, I’m no actually that’s a meme can you stop telling me your thoughts on Yaoi, I regret ever asking you about it. Are there any phrases that you guys use a lot, like Lisa or DJ?

Lisa: I was looking the ‘pit of voles’ that’s where it came from. The site that must not be named. What if somebody sees, think of the children! That’s one I think about a lot more than I actually say.

Wook: And I love t’he get out of my fandom you make my fandom look stupid’.

Lisa: The tl;dr is definitely one and then people make made the little figures with the actual teal coloured dear.

Elanor: Yeah. ‘The rocks fall, everyone dies’ that’s a fun one as well.

DJ: And that’s come back to life now especially the idiom of it, Song of Ice and Fire. So ‘rocks fall, everyone dies’ but it’s actually true this time. Makes it even more ironic and funnier.

Lisa: Actually I was so amused that all those people who had never read the books were so shocked that Ned Stark died, I’m like Sean Bean played him of course he was going to die.

Wook: And speaking of memes from Fandom Wank and sayings we were sort of talking before we started the chat officially about some of the rules of Fandom Wank and so do you have some favourite ones you would like to go over?

Lisa: Like Snacky’s Rule?

DJ: Snacky’s Rule

Wook: Snacky’s Rule is amazing.

Lisa: It’s a play on Godwin's law which basically, that one says that any conversation on the internet that goes on long enough someone will eventually bring up Hitler and the Nazis, and with Snacky’s Law its about in fandom conversations eventually someone gonna compare somebody in a particular way to girls they went to high school with and once that happens you’re null and void that’s it you’ve reached the limit.

DJ: Yeah you’re the mean girl and then that’s it. That person loses immediately. Soon as you pull up the mean girl argument you’ve delved into some kind of really bad Hollywood movie and that’s it everybody loses in that case.

Wook: Except the wank communities.

DJ: Except the wank communities.
Lisa: But you know what’s funny, I never realized how frequently that actually happens in so many posts and discussions, you know

DJ: It’s true anytime, anything happens usually wank that appear to be serious most of the time in the end somebody inevitably called the other person, one of those mean girls or whatever it was.

Wook: Ok so my newly discovered favourite little law is called Humpty’s Law: When someone uses a dictionary to tell someone else what they really meant, all meaningful discussion ceases, to be replaced with arguments over whether the definition is correct. I love that! When that happens I think it’s hilarious, like always flashes back to Bill Clinton with the whole what definition of is are you using.
So I didn’t know that that Law had a name but know that’s I know that law’s name I think that’s hilarious. And another that’s a favourite of mine is Code of the Comfy Chair, is meant to be a threat but is actually a favor, including, but not limited to:

- If you don't agree with me I'll leave this community forever
- If I don't get X number of reviews I'll stop writing
It’s like please, please stop!
Wait, Wait don’t go I am going to miss you really.

DJ: No wait stop, it’s like that begins in Willy Wonka. No wait stop please don’t go…
I’m kinda partial myself to the variation on shipping war, the Law of Ship Double Standards. In a shipping war there is always someone who argues against a paring while proclaiming yet another pairing which is obviously ambiguous as much as the first pairing is must be romantic and their OTP cause they say so. The hypocrisy of it which is very common. You get a lot of that I the SPN fandom and a lot of others, same thing Buffy had a lot of that going on and Harry Potter did too. It’s a very common one.

Wook: That’s happening now a lot in Teen Wolf.

DJ: Oh is it?

Wook: Yeah you can’t like Derek/Stiles because they can only just be friends and they are not even friends so why are you even shipping them together? And the besides all you Sterek people are a bunch of crazy loons anyway.
DJ: You are all a bunch of mean girls from high school.

Wook: Right, right? Except they assume that everyone reads this? I think this is something to do with tumblr more than anything else. They assume that everybody is under the age of 25 and I’m sitting there going, I’m 35. I just go what? What did you call me? Wow I love you I know you called me an insult but I love you for assuming I’m younger than I actually am.

Lisa: So in Avengers there is the whole thing Clint/Coulson pairing and there’s this group of people I guess that cant stand it they don’t even want it as a background pairing. And the reasoning is that they didn’t have any actual interactions in the Avengers movie so clearly it’s a pairing that came out of nowhere by their reckoning.

Wook: They haven’t been in Fandom long have they?

DJ: Those often tend to be the biggest pairings.

Lisa: They both work together, and they were together in the Thor movie and clearly had a rapport a working relationship. So you know in that case it’s a logical extrapolation to you know, go towards a ship, its not like they are just two random characters who have nothing to do with one another.

Elanor: I would just say that would kind of invalidate any sort of crossover paring ever.

Lisa: But you know, it’s weird because the nature of wank really hasn’t changed, people lock down their stuff more than they used to. But the nature of wank itself hasn’t changed but how people approach it and think of it has changed a lot in the past few years. And you can tell you go to fandom wank website now and nobody posts anything, there’s like two posts a month.

DJ: I think that a lot of the original locking, the spirit of locking became more personal and vicious to a lot of people not necessarily at Fandom wank but in general outside of fandom wank in anonymous places or in the journal of themselves of the people involved and many people got very vicious about many things and I think that what you get then is some kneejerk reaction after a couple of years of that’s everybody is afraid to talk about it or talk to it or participate

Lisa: Because if you posted something the first person would come in and say this is not funny this is unfunny, which is with the whole unfunny, then they start posting recipes and that was the end. It’s the whole this offends me, it doesn’t offend you but it offends me and it’s gotten really complicated and complex.

Wook: When I think with fandom fracturing for it’s primary location. I mean it used to be you could just go on Livejournal and find alike a million wanks and now people are wanking over on tumblr and it carries over on AO3 and sometimes it’s on Dreamwidth or its over here on Livejournal you never know exactly where it’s going to be so it’s harder to succinctly sum up what’s going on with these wanks, especially with the nature of tumblr where you know it blows over in an hour.

Lisa: You post something on your dash and five minutes later it’s gone because everybody is reblogging everybody else’s stuff.

DJ: exactly it’s very transient. I don’t find it very good for any type of conversation or debate for that matter. There is not much happening there it’s a useless format for that it doesn’t work. It can’t work on twitter for the same purposes because you have only so much to talk about on twitter maybe if you do a side conversation But back and forth between people or a major conversation can’t happen on twitter.

Lisa: - Yeah you only have 142 characters.

DJ: And it’s gone in 10 mins because 30 other people have taled about the thing. Like when the Olympics were happening or the presidential debates were on something like that if you try to tag something and you click a tag within seconds there’s 20 more tweets to do with that tag so…

Lisa: But also I think on Livejournal anon memes have kind kind of taken over the role. Some of them have moderation others are just basically a free for all and it’s hard. The big old meme was the LOL meme and that was actually going on during the hay day of fandon wank as well. That was a specific group of people that went on and pretty much posted nonsense, bitched about other people it was a very strange kind of meme. But the other one started up, everybody started up you know, fandom wank used to be all fandom but now lots of the anon memes are fandom specific if you are not in that fandom you don’t have any reason to go those memes so you are not going to see any of the new wank that is happening. Even Metafandom used to link from all different fandoms but people are more insolated and isolated within their own fandoms they don’t know what’s going on in a fandom they have no contact with. That was one of the things that fandom wank did, I mean I didn’t know anything about furries until I saw it on fandom wank.

DJ: And you probably could have lived your whole life and never know about furries.

Lisa: Exactly that’s the thing. But like I said there is no fandom central anymore. People follow, you know, the fandoms that they are interested in even on tumblr and the other thing too is, you know Livejournal and Dreamwitdh between people being on both of those or some people are still on Insanejournal and other people are on tumblr almost exclusively now they don’t post on their livejournals anymore or they are on twitter exclusively and it’s just very fractured and there is nocentral area so all these wanks are going to happen but you know, nobody posts to fandom wank anymore because I think they are afraid people will say well this isn’t funny have some recipes. you know?

Wook: And to paraphrase that ends our discussion on fandom wank and if you have any questions or comments please feel to leave then in any of our different media sites and please of you know how to pronounce Yaoi whatever properly we’d love you to correct us as well.
  

Transcribed by imifos

Episode 39: LGBT News Transcript

2013-02-04T02:31:56Z

Episode 39 LGBT News Transcript

Host: angelbabe_cj

Caroline: Hi I’m angelbabe_cj and I’m stepping in for Wook this month to give you Episode 39’s LGBT News update.

First I’m going to be selfish and talk about the UK. There is a marriage equality bill which is up for debate and vote in Parliament this month. According to research by The Coalition for Marriage Equality a majority of MPs are actually in favour of the bill. Surprising things about this bill: the Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition are the ones to propose it, and yes, yes, conservative, really, seriously Conservatives. Which… screws with my head too a little bit. We’ve had civil partnerships since 2005, but legally speaking you can’t call it a marriage, so I’m really looking forward to marriage equality for everybody.

Among the opposition to the bill the Church of England and the Church of Wales have been forthright, as has the Church of Scotland in regard to a similar bill proposed there. The Catholic Church is opposed to both bills, and there has been opposition from MPs such as Liam Fox the former Defence Secretary. But as I said the majority of MPs are in favour, so I’m looking forward to this bill passing the House of Commons and moving to the House of Lords.

In other good news a marriage equality bill has passed the House in Rhode Island and it’s moving towards the Senate Committee.

Testimony hearings have begun in Wyoming on three LGBT rights bills including one on marriage equality.

Marriage Equality legislation has once more been introduced in Illinois after the 2012 session timed out before the Senate could vote. The legislation is expected to pass this year.

There’s also a civil unions bill making its way to the Senate in Colorado.

Of course it’s not all good news and unfortunately in Virginia an attempt to reverse the 2006 ban on marriage equality failed to get out of subcommittee.

Internationally Italy’s Prime Minister has spoken out against Marriage Equality and the Premier, who is up for re-election this year has been getting a lot of awkward questions about marriage equality which he’s refusing to answer.

Unfortunately in Poland the parliament has rejected a bill on same-sex civil unions by quite a wide margin.

There have been protests in Paris following President François Hollande’s announcement of plans to give marriage equality to France. There’s also been a website launched, it’s called Laissez-Nous Voter, and asks for a vote by the French public on marriage equality. Only it’s not so much by French people as it is by the fuckers at the National Organization for Marriage. You’d think they’d be busy enough with all the great stuff that’s going on in the USA but apparently not!

And moving away from marriage equality finally I’ve got some great news for the Trans* community. The North American Old Catholic Church has ordained their first transgender priest. Father Kearns will be taking up a post in Minneapolis. The LGBT inclusive church follows Catholic traditions and rituals, but isn’t associated with The Vatican.

From October 2014 Oregon will become the first state to cover transition related care for transgender youth on Medicaid. With out-of-pocket costs reaching $1000 a month it really can’t come soon enough, particularly when it’s the sort of care that saves a lot of lives.

Also in Trans* news United Colors of Benetton is featuring transgender model Lea T in their new ad campaign for Spring-Summer. The campaign is said to highlight people who have unusual or different routes into fashion success.

Now turning towards sport, Sanfranscisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh says he’d welcome a gay player, and those of you who follow American Football should know he’s on the way to the Superbowl. He said, "What you ask of a player is to be a great teammate and be a good player. My expectations would be the same,” which I think is great news and would foster a better sense of positivity within the footballing and sporting community in general.

A couple of things in the well, finally column: Montana is considering repealing the outdated law that criminalises same-sex sex. It was ruled unconstitutional back in 1997 thus isn’t enforceable at all, but is still on the law books. Seriously guys, get with the programme!

Also Boy Scouts of America have confirmed that they are considering dropping the ban on openly gay scouts and leaders. I really hope they change it because it’s made me really sad to be pissed off at such a theoretically great organisation because of their discrimination.

And if you missed the Golden Globes earlier this month you’ll have missed Jodie Foster’s coming out speech. It’s got both positive and negative attention, but I’ll leave you some links in the Post Show Post to check that out.

Five years after the Nepalese Supreme Court’s ruling that the government should issue third gender citizenship certificates for anybody who does not wish to be identified as male or female, the government it going to begin actually issuing the certificates, which is great news.

Just when you thought I’d forgotten… Congratulations to President Barak Obama on his second Inauguration and all the historic firsts that included. They’re all going to be quick because there’s quite a lot of them.

Firstly, not only did he call for equality for gay and lesbian people he also mentioned the Stonewall riots of 1969 which most people consider the birthplace of the modern LGBT rights movement, and I have to quote here because it’s the first time a President has mentioned gay, meaning the sexuality, in an Inaugural address. And he said, “Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law. For if we are truly created equal then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well,” end quote. Isn’t that great?

Also at the Inauguration: Richard Blanco a gay latino delivered the Inaugural poem, the LGBT band who marched in President Obama’s first Inaugural Parade returned this year, the Inaugural Prayer service included an out clergy member, and gay and lesbian service members were allowed to bring were allowed to bring same-sex partners to the Inaugural Ball for the first time ever following the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

There are two rebuttal moments that I need to mention. Firstly Jon Stewart’s takedown of the collective conservative freakout over the Stonewall mention was apparently amazing. I’ve not seen the video because it’s USA only, but I have seen the tumblr gifs and… yeah it looks pretty darn awesome!

And the final word goes to an 11-year-old transgender girl from Arizona, who wondered why President Obama didn’t mention Trans* people in his address. And in response wrote an essay, ‘Sadie’s Dream for the World’, and it finishes: “It really isn’t that hard to like transgender people, because we are like everyone else.”

And that’s it for the news this month, as usual if you think we’ve missed anything, or there’s anything you’d like us to put into next month’s news please leave a comment on the Post Show Post, tweet us, ask box us, or email us at islashdoyou at gmail.com.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 35: Pimp My Fandom

2013-02-02T15:15:16Z

Host: kriken
Guest: suaine
Fandom: Teen Wolf

Kriken: Welcome to Pimp My Fandom for this episode of Slashcast. We have a very special fandom to talk about today to fit in with our October theme for Horror/Halloween, and with us today with have Suaine.

Suaine: Yes, hi!

Kriken: And what fandom are you going to be pimping today?

Suaine: Well I’m going to be pimping Teen Wolf.

Kriken: The big, new, problem child around fandom.

Suaine: You could say that. [Suaine laughs]

Kriken: You love it or you hate it, it seems.

Suaine: Yeah. That’s Teen Wolf. [Kriken laughs] Yeah, well, Teen Wolf is one of those things people seem to come to it basically going ‘oh, I don’t want to watch Teen Wolf, it sounds stupid’, and then they sort of fall in love with it, almost against their will. Which is not actually what happened to me, I was basically. I knew what I was getting into. I loved it from the start.

Kriken: I was exactly what you described, I went into it and was just like ‘oh, this is going to be so corny. Everyone’s talking about it so I’ll try it, but I’m not -

Suaine: Yeah.

Kriken: - with this type of show, and it just, it never let go.

Suaine: Yeah, exactly. It just kind of, it bites down and it never lets go.

Kriken: Exactly. Alright, so, I’m sure there are people still out there who haven’t really dug past, you know, all of the tumblr photos that they’re seeing, why don’t we just do a really basic overview of what it is?

Suaine: That’s actually quite simple: Teen Wolf is basically about teenage werewolves. Um, Scott McCall is the main character, he gets bitten, turns into a werewolf then his best friend Stiles takes care of him, helps him through the change. Scott falls in love with a girl and his best friend Stiles falls in a sort of antagonistic kind of relationship with his mentor/evil villain type person who turns out to be much more interesting than that: Derek. And well, that’s the fandom right there.

Kriken: Um, so, how do you watch it? I know there are many ways that it’s available, but…

Suaine: Yeah. Obviously I’m not in the US [Kriken makes agreeing noise], I have the first season DVDs. I have to watch it streaming or otherwise. You know not the most legal ways [laughter], but yeah I stream the episodes after they air in the US.

Kriken: Alright so it’s definitely available, you know for anyone in MTV.com does put them up, I believe, next day.

Suaine: Yes, they’re usually available about 12 hours later at the very latest.

Kriken: And personally I know that I was able to get them off of Amazon, off of their video streaming service, so…

Suaine: Yes, also I think iTunes has them. There’s a lot of ways to get them. In the US. Outside the US you’re gonna have to be a little more flexible.

Kriken: The one thing that I hear from a lot of people is that while they like the show and you warm up to the primary characters the best thing about the show is really the secondary characters. So, aside from Scott, obviously Stiles is a favourite.

Suaine: Yeah.

Kriken: But there are other secondary characters that are really integral to the plot, so do you want to talk about them a little bit?

Suaine: I basically love all the characters, even the villains are amazing, especially in the first season when we meet Kate and Peter for the first time. Each one of them is- they have so much more depth than, you know, basically the normal main characters of other shows that we kind of have to love them even when you hate them. [Kriken laughs] Um yeah, Peter is the main bad guy, he’s Derek’s uncle and, well he dies, comes back, but that’s kind of a- he’s a very sassy kind of character. [Kriken laughs]

Kriken: He is very sassy.

Suaine: But we all love him, but we also, we can’t really forgive him for some of the stuff he’s done. [both laugh] I mean I don’t want to spoil it too much, but yeah there’s some stuff that Peter really needs to work out. And Kate, there is some stuff we really, really cannot forgive her. Er, but she’s dead now, so that’s okay.

Kriken: [laughs] She got what came to her.

Suaine: Yeah. And other characters, of course, Lydia and Jackson, and Danny, everyone loves Danny and that’s actually not an exaggeration because Danny is- Actually Danny was the reason why I even started watching it.

Kriken: Really?

Suaine: Why I was interested, yeah. Basically it was like, ‘oh there’s a show with werewolves, and it has a gay character, okay I will try it’, and then yeah, that was that.

Kriken: Well I have to say that the writer of the show is obviously very open about his own sexuality, but is very forthright about sex and he wants, his goal here was to normalise the existence of these alternate sexualities – aside from just het, which is what we always see, right? So obviously it comes up in conversation, but it’s not, they don’t harp on it like you’ll sometimes see.

Suaine: Yeah, that’s probably what I love most about Danny, that he’s gay but no one really cares. And everyone loves, and he’s one of the most popular guys and it’s just so nice, it’s really nice.

Kriken: It is.

Suaine: Yeah.

Kriken: Although I do have to mention that aside from the main characters who’re on generally the same level as Scott, they all go to school together, so they’re always hanging out, I absolutely love the parents.

Suaine: Oh, oh yes, the parents are amazing. Especially, I mean everyone loves the Sheriff.

Kriken: Yes. Papa Stilinski.

Suaine: Yes. But I really love what they’ve done with Melissa now that she knows. Scott’s mum. Yeah, now that she loves about the werewolves, the way she’s taking charge and just owning everyone. [both laugh] Yeah, so since the finale it’s just, we’re ‘oh, Melissa McCall is so amazing’.

Kriken: Definitely. Well I think it’ll be really interesting to see how Stiles’ dad, the Sheriff doesn’t know about wolves.

Suaine: Yes.

Kriken: And most of the town doesn’t, but it’ll be interesting to see how they incorporate Melissa into all of this, because she talks to Stiles’ dad, their sons are best friends, so… that’s going to be fun.

Suaine: Yeah. They sit together during lacrosse games and stuff like that, so they know each other pretty well, so can she lie to him? That’s the question. I mean maybe they don’t even talk any more now that she knows about werewolves, but that would also make him suspicious because he’s the sheriff and he’s actually good at his job.

Kriken: [laughs] Right. He is, he’s a very competent sheriff, so you wonder how long that’s going to take.

Suaine: Yeah I think they probably won’t be able to keep that much longer, that secret.

Kriken: Alright so we’ve talked a little bit about the show and the characters, [Suaine makes noise of agreement] let’s get right to the shipping, ‘cause that’s where all the fun, juicy stuff is.

Suaine: Yes. [laughs]

Kriken: So we all know where you’re gonna start, but let’s pick a couple of what you think are fandom’s biggest slash pairings.

Suaine: Well yes, Derek and Stiles, obviously.

Kriken: [laughs] Pretty much everyone knows after the AfterElton poll.

Suaine: Aside from Derek and Stiles, well I’ve seen Scott/Isaac, er, Chris and Peter, and me personally I kind of like the idea of Danny and Boyd, but I don’t think there’s any stories out there yet. I’m working on it, but yeah.

Kriken: [laughs] We’ll just plant that seed.

Suaine: Yes. Yes, let’s hope that someone is going in that direction. [both laugh]

Kriken: Indeed. And are there any femmeslash pairings that you’ve seen a lot of?

Suaine: I’m seeing, especially in pictures, Allison/Lydia, but so much in stories. I think Lydia/Erica there’s some. I’ve read one really good one, other than that we don’t have that many female characters so… I guess...

Kriken: Yeah, not as many pairing combination options.

Suaine: But, yeah, Lydia/Allison is probably the biggest femmeslash paring.

Kriken: Where do you generally go to find the Teen Wolf fandom?

Suaine: If you go looking for Teen Wolf fandom Tumblr is probably your first port of call. It’s the biggest place to find Teen Wolf stuff on the internet. For fanfiction AO3, fanfiction.net does have stories for Teen Wolf but actually only about half the number that is on AO3, and livejournal but the fandom on livejournal is pretty, well very, very quiet.

Kriken: And that pretty much leads us to everybody’s favourite part of this discussion. [both laugh] So this is the time when we kind of get to throw out all of our favourites. So what are your favourite fanworks? We’re talking fic, we’re talking art, vids, anything you can think of.

Suaine: Anything I can think of? [both laugh]

Kriken: Any sort of derivative work.

Suaine: Well there’s obviously stories. I think probably there are stories that we should mention because they’re the, well, almost classics already even though the fandom hasn’t been around much, um not very long anyway. But, like Alpha Spikes, anything Saucery writes, especially Reasonable To Assume, then anything Hito wrote in the early, actually Hito writes. [Kriken laughs] Um, yeah, but I think it would be nice if we also talk about some of the new stuff that’s shown up at the end of the second season, because there’s some really, really good stuff coming out right now. Like, I am really in love with the Milkshakes and Matchbooks series.

Kriken: Isn’t it gorgeous?

Suaine: Oh, it’s adorable.

Kriken: It really is.

Suaine: It’s so sweet, and just, it does make a nice counterpoint to all that wallslamming that, um… Yeah.

Kriken: [laughs] Wallslamming, wallslamming being the primary form of affection and communication between Derek and Stiles. Yes.

Suaine: [chuckles] I have nothing against wallslamming, I love the wallslamming, you know. Basically anything Sauccery writes, as long as you watch out for the warnings, and you should always watch out for the warnings.

Kriken: They’re in all caps, they’re hard to miss most of the time. [laughs]

Suaine: Exactly. I mean I love Saucery a lot so anything that comes out from there is usually something I will like, but I’m always careful and always look out what it’s about first.

Kriken: And she’s, most of her stuff is Derek/Stiles but she does branch out into others and her secondary pairings in her stories are usually pretty good too.

Suaine: Yes.

Kriken: I know she’s had, um, some Scott/Isaac kind of filter in there.

Suaine: She’s also writing a little bit of Peter/Stiles.

Kriken: Yup. Getting her lots of popularity.

Suaine: It’s also very popular, but in a very, um, very, in the dub con direction, or non-con sometimes.

Kriken: Very much on the darker side of her storylines.

Suaine: Yes. Yes. Those are very much in the darker direction.

Kriken: I think everything we’ve referenced so far has been pretty Sterek heavy, do you remember you mentioned earlier an Erica/Lydia story, I believe. Do you remember what it was?

Suaine: Oh yes, the Erica/Lydia story. Let me go look for it. [Kriken laughs] Oh yes, it’s actually by Lielabell, and it’s called I Know I’m a Mess You Don’t Want to Clean Up. And yes, it’s actually about pack, and it’s about how Erica sees the pack, just basically it’s about Erica and how awesome she is and then it has some nice Erica/Lydia porn in it. So definitely check that one out.

Kriken:Well and that was fic. Do you have any art, any vids that you think everyone needs to see.

Suaine: Okay art, I think everything Pembroke does for any of the characters actually. [Kricken chuckles]There’s also the one art piece that is basically just a forest and then you basically find two characters in it. There’s Stiles sort of walking in the background and then when you really concentrate you actually see Derek in the foreground, just his leather jacket, basically sort of hiding, lurking the way he does. That’s also a really nice… it seems to be by a tumblr artist called lienwyn. That’s- that’s- that’s gorgeous. And there’s Kaciart who is doing a lot of, they’re all greyscale and they’re all very pretty. Here’s one that we should probably mention. There’s a really neat art of Lydia as an Alpha and it’s by Balphesian, yeah and it’s basically Lydia being badass.

Kriken: I don’t know about you but I don’t actually see a whole lot of vids for Teen Wolf, although I do have to say that there have been a couple of kind of comedy type videos that someone created specifically to get her friend to start watching the show and they’re absolutely hilarious.

Suaine: They are amazing. But I also really like, um, I think they’re both by Fannishtings, the Sour Wolf one that’s basically a movie trailer for the movie Sour Wolf which is a romantic comedy starring Derek and Stiles. [both laugh]

Kriken: Is there anything that you want to say to people who haven’t gotten into the fandom yet? Alay and fears that they might have, just give them some hints about where to start and what to look for.

Suaine: Well basically it’s been really one of my favourite fandom experiences ever. [laughs] I guess that sounds kind of arrogant or something, but Teen Wolf fandom has been pretty awesome, it’s got lots of art, lots of- just lots of stuff happening and so much enthusiasm. I guess the really good thing is that lots of us really do love the show very much. I mean I’ve been in fandoms where people hated just about everything except for their favourite character, but I think that most of the people who watch Teen Wolf really love Teen Wolf and that really comes through in the fandom too.

Kriken: I can’t disagree with that at all. [both chuckle] And certainly if you’re, you like the type of the shows where you can interact with the writer-

Suaine: Oh yes.

Kriken: - with the actors, with the people in involved with the official tumblrs and twitters, all of them are very responsive. There’s all kinds of stuff popping up on tumblr about this actor saying this, and posting this picture and during the big AfterElton poll.

Suaine: Yeah they have, they have been so amazing with us. I have never felt this good and this valued by the creators and the cast, and just everyone. No but they really seem to actually like us and, yeah so that’s all very interactive and they have just been so nice to us.

Kriken: They really have. Well, and I think that’s a good note to leave off on.

Suaine: Yeah. [they laugh]

Kriken: Thank you very much for joining us, we really appreciate it.

Suaine: Anytime!

Kriken: Now this segment was pretty Sterek heavy because the two of us both are big fans, um and they obviously- that ship is the one that the most prolific authors seem to be writing about, so if you have a favourite fic, or art, or vid that you want to share for one of the smaller ships please do, we would love to see it and talk to you a little bit about in the comments on our Post Show Post. If you want to Pimp Your Fandom on Slashcast in a future episode, please leave a comment or you can send us an email at islashdoyou @ gmail.com and we will add it to our list. Thanks for listening!

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 35: Insider Interview

2013-02-02T14:49:50Z

Host: djin7
Guest: cesperanza

DJ: This is the author interview for Slashcast episode number 35. I’m DJ and I’m very pleased to introduce my guest today, Speranza, who is a popular and well-respected multi-fandom writer and vidder and is here to discuss her fandoms, fanworks and her fannish activities of late. Thank you, Speranza and welcome for coming.

Speranza: Thank you, I’m happy to be here.

DJ: Let’s get started right off the bat. How did you come into the world of fandom?

Speranza: I came in on the first Star Wars boom, is how I sort of date myself. In the sort of 1980ish, around the time of Empire Strikes Back ‘cause I’m that old. But I was young then. And in fact I sort of back formed into organised fandom I kind of back formed to Trek. But it was really what got me out of the house, as it were, was Star Wars, was my first connection to other fans. Though it wasn’t the first thing I was fannish about. I was, in the late 70s – I’m really dating myself, but whatever – in the late 70s was our last big superhero boom. And in fact you had Wonder Woman, you had Linda Carter as Wonder Woman on the air, and you had sort of The Hulk on the air, and there was a Spiderman series on the air and there was Mighty Isis, which nobody remembers-

DJ: I remember.

Speranza: You remember Mighty Isis? O, Mighty Isis, when she was on the air?

DJ:[speaking in background] I absolutely do.

Speranza: And then the Adam West Batman, and Adam West on some level will always be my Batman. And it was kind of the Superhero thing, and that’s what I was quietly, privately fannish about, but I didn’t connect with other fans over that. The thing that brought me out of the house, as much as a 10 – 12 year old gets out of the house, was Star Wars, which I became kind of fannish about at a moment when everybody was fannish about Star Wars in a way that felt like living it all over again with Harry Potter. I mean, it was the kind of thing that mundanes became fannish. In the way that Harry Potter really just made people who would not have thought about fandom as a way of life, you know they weren’t kind of firewall, but they became crazy fannish in this huge sweep in. And so I swept in on the kind of 1981 equivalent of that, which was the sort of Star Wars craze and it was a great time to be a fan. I mean you still had the Superhero hangover [DJ makes agreeing noise], and there was a science fiction explosion and you were going to have Raiders, and you were going to have Star Trek 2, which, you know, Wrath of Khan came out and then Search for Spock in ’83 and I remember all of this like it was yesterday. And I had a Star Log subscription and I was a member of the Star Wars fan club and I had blueprints of the Millennium Falcon on my wall. [DJ suddenly laughs with joy] and I was just – no I mean I had-

DJ: [talking over Speranza] That’s fabulous.

Speranza: - I had just kind of stills and I was just crazy for it. And I started writing Star Wars fanfic then, with a group of real life mundane meat-space friends, but who all did not live near to me, so we would write fanfic and mail it to each other through the mail. Big packets of fanfic in a kind of ongoing round-robin story. And I was sort of desperately fannish all through the mid, early to mid-eighties.

DJ: So what launched you online then?

Speranza: This eighties period I was in my teen years really, early teens, 12, 13, 14, and then in the later 80s I went to college. And I sort of, and I think that a lot of people have this experience, having written fanfiction I sort of thought ‘well I could be a writer’, and I thought ‘well, I’ll be a grown up writer, DJ, I won’t write fanfiction, I’ll write short stories and stuff. I’ll do Creative Writing and I’ll be a serious writer.’ And off I trundled in my pretentious little undergraduate way to become a serious writer in college. And in some ways I became less fannish, I was still a sort of science fiction person, but I kind of drifted out of fandom while I was in college and in graduate school. And then, you know, you can run but you can’t hide, and in graduate school I did a paper on the queer subtext between Batman and Robin, which was a throwback to my first fannishness with Adam West and cute little Burt Ward in his little shorts, and I did a paper: Queer Aspects of Batman and Robin as a feminist paper and someone came up to me and said, ‘you know, you would really like fandom’. You know it was very funny, and the internet was just sort of starting, now we’re in the early 90s, and I didn’t have internet in – I mean there was no internet really when I was in college – but there was starting to be internet while I was in graduate school. The text based internet, as I’m sure you remember it.

DJ: Yup.

Speranza: You know with archie, and you had to tell net in, and everything was textual. And they gave me one of these hook-ups at my graduate school and this friend of mine in graduate school said ‘oh you might want to log on ‘cause there’s all this kind of wonderful queer batman stuff’, and I did log on from school. And I swear to you it was like coming home, because I had been here. In other words for me it was like this weird recognition, like ‘oh my god’ this whole thing that I thought I had put behind me, right. Because I had zines and I had gone to some science fiction conventions and I was writing, but all of a sudden all those same people who I thought that I had left behind at 1987 or so were all still there and they had all gone online and now it was 1993, or 4 or something like that, 5, and I remember thinking, like ‘oh my god, I know just what this is’. And it was really quite exciting actually to rediscover it all and be like ‘oh my god and you guys hand this brilliant idea that instead of mailing the stories you’re going to post them online’, like it was the most exciting thing in the world, honestly. And if you remember then sort of ’96 ish, ’97 it was KSnix, KS Nicholas’ page and there was a, she had this page called something like Fanfiction on the Internet, you know with that big a title. All of it. She had a listing of fanfiction on the internet, there were sort of two pages with all sites in the world. You could list them, ‘cause there were like 50 of them.

DJ: Wow.

Speranza: In the day. And so you literally could go and it would be Bren Antrim – Highlander stuff, you know a lot of these people are still around, or Kim Gasp or whatever. I mean there was just a list of sites, people’s individual pages of people who were writing fanfiction. And you could put that on two webpages, just like a list of links, and I swear to you I just inhaled it, you know. I remember just sitting and at that point I had just gotten a doctorate and I was guesting and I was sitting in my office and I was just inhaling this stuff in just huge batches. Sometimes I would just stay in my office until eleven o’clock at night, and literally just not be able to tear myself away from the internet hookup at the office where there was all the stories in the world.

DJ: Yeah people still can’t tear themselves away from the internet when there’s all the stories in the world.

Speranza: Yeah. I have to say that, I’ve said this before but, I’m so kin-, I mean this is sad but I’m really happy that somehow I, I feel like I was quite lucky to have fallen out of fandom for college and graduate school ‘cause I’m not entirely sure that I would have finished. And I admire the kids- ‘these kids today’. I mean, god bless them, no, I think about it all the time with my students. I think god bless you that you are able to read a book, and do your papers, turn up in class and all of that and still have this fantastic world online. You know they may be better than me in all sorts of ways. I respect them.

DJ: Yeah they seem to have endless energy now.

Speranza: Yeah I guess they must, but they also must have self-control that at some point they must close the window for the tumblr and go and read their homework. And I’m not sure I could have done it in 1995, I tell ya.

DJ: Yeah, I still have problems closing that window too. So did you throw yourself into the internet at that time and start anything of you own, get your own… you have a website I know, and when did that start?

Speranza: Well, so I inhaled, I was just reading like you do, and inhaling all the stories and I did start with that, because this friend of mine had told me – James if you’re out there, James what’s with winds – Batman had written some Batman slash and then James had a Batman story that crossed over with Sentinal.

DJ: Nice.

Speranza: It was a Batman/Sentinel crossover which I’m sure is still archived out there somewhere. And I remember thinking ‘There’s a Sentinel from-, what is this?’ Yeah, famous last words. And, um, obviously I’d just finished graduate school and Sentinel which was a popular show in the – of the era – in the late 90s, but it featured a graduate student and you just see very few graduate students in mass culture and there was a sort of attraction there with the Blair Sandburg character – studying a hero, it seemed very fun – and I initially wrote my first, well I was going to say my first fanfic, my first fanfic then after the hiatus, my first online fanfiction literally as a way – I remember thinking to myself ‘Well, I know how to do this, I used to do this when I was a kid, I know what it’s like to write fanfiction, and I am a serious writer and I can certainly write a story to give back.’ And I remember sort of thinking to myself ‘I’ll just write a story’ because that was the way you-, there was really no other way to kind of pay back, you felt like you wanted to give something back to people who had written so much stuff that had given you so much pleasure.

DJ: Exactly.

Speranza: And I didn’t know how to do it other than I thought, ‘oh well, I’ll write one and that will be my way of putting into the pot as it came around.’ It was like a contribution, you know. So I thought I know how to do this, so I’ll write a story and that’ll be my way of saying ‘Boy I have had such a good time’ and I thought I would just write the one and that’s not how it worked out. [DJ chuckles in the background] Um, and really famous last words. ‘I’ll just write this one story’.

DJ: Just the one?

Speranza: Yeah, just to say thanks, DJ.

DJ: That was one epic story.

Speranza: Yeah, and it went on for kind of a while. Yeah.

DJ: How many parts?

Speranza: [laughs] I don’t – I honestly, I’d have to go back and check but I ended up writing this thing called The Nature Series which was at least 30 stories.

DJ: Yeah.

Speranza: I don’t know how that happened it was all kind of a blur. You know it was really it was like going back into a worn path it was like ‘this is so fun. This is about as much fun as you can legally have.’ And I really never stopped after that, from then to now. So really all in all I’ve been writing fanfiction pretty seriously since the early, now it looks like the other bit was the break, and luckily I had a nice little 1987 to – well I guess it was about ten years, I didn’t write again until ’97, so I had a little ten year hiatus and other than that I’ve been doing it.

DJ: Um, so you obviously prefer to write now, what or who inspires you?

Speranza: Fandom in the broadest sense I would say inspires me, in fact. You know I’m really different. I’m really friendly with astolat aka The Lady of Shalott and she really, you know, beats to her own drum. She sees the source and she has a story. And the story sort of comes off the source and I always used to call myself a kind of third wave writer. I’m somebody who really gets inspired by the fandom around a source rather than the source. So really, literally speaking I am inspired by fandom, I get my energy from fandom, from the creativity, from the other stories that are being written. And if you look at what I look at what I do I have tended to be not only in really big fandoms but in big fandoms kind of late, right. I’m typically not the first one in the door. Astolat is more likely to be first in the door, my friend Julad is more likely to be the first through the door, where they really kind of build a fandom. I used to joke there are people who sort of turn up and they found the town and they go there and they set up camp and build a campfire and they start kind of doing the fandom. I come in like, you know, like a year later and start building like the Post Office and the railway system [laughs] you know what I mean? And like put a supermarket in. I sit in for the long haul and I build, like, infrastructure, you know, but I don’t really discover fandoms so much. Like I go into fandoms where the explorers have been before me, and I start mapping, I start doing more, more er, civilization building work later in the day, I’m not the first person to turn up at your fandom. So like now I’m getting interested in Avengers, right? Where literally, like, literally people have been in there before me and now I kind of want to come and – you know – build a Town Hall or something.

DJ: I’m sure that they’ll be very happy to hear that.

Speranza: Yeah, but you know what I mean, like I’m not first in. I’m not clever that way, I don’t go in there and say – I don’t go to Avengers the movie and come out and be like ‘you know what, I’ve got six stories I want to tell’, like I want the fandom vibe first. I do admire the people though who really make, who innovate fandoms.

DJ: Absolutely.

Speranza: You know it’s a different personality, like, who literally they read a new book and think ‘oh, that’s great and I have a missing scene and I’m going to write it even though nobody cares. You know?’

DJ: Yet. </p>

Speranza: ‘I mean in this moment nobody cares but I’m going to write it and now everybody’s going to care.’ That’s fantastic. I mean, your original question what inspires me. The people who do that I think are amazing. Um. And then I think that, there used to be something called the wave theory of slash like people who get involved in fandoms at different stages of the fandom’s cycle or whatever it is. So I’m really grateful to the people who do the tropes, you know what I mean, I like to play with the tropes that other fans have invented. In many ways I’m more interested in writing fanfic of fandom’s work than I really am about fanfic of the canon. I really only want to process each new culture through what fandom’s already written about it, generally.

DJ: So, in er, canon fandoms, sources, those types of things, is there a particular one in the past – past fandom – that you hold most dear?

Speranza: You know I don’t, I really, I deeply love, if I’ve written it I just deeply love it. And I don’t know that I could even rate it. I mean, especially the big fandoms for me, which were Sentinal, and Due South, and SJ, and The Dead Zone which was a wonderful little fandom which never got as big as it could of but was really quite wonderful and, um, my heart is in that too. And The West Wing. I just feel like, you know, if you, ‘cause to write something is to really devote brain and body time to it, blood time to it, though I suppose I definitely have fondness for Due South that I don’t think I’ll ever be apart from. But I don’t know that I could prioritise them in terms of any kind of favourites.

DJ: Obviously you put your heart and soul into something and you have to really love it with your heart and soul at that time.

Speranza: People always say, you know, that so much fanfiction is terrible, but I actually have the opposite. Now, admittedly I don’t read everything, I know people who are really voracious readers and read everything and then they say that 90% of everything is crap. But I read pretty widely and I would say that what I read is really very good.

DJ: Uh huh.

Speranza: And I think that people really do love it so much, even when it’s bad it’s really good.

DJ: It shows that they love it.

Speranza: I think so. I mean, and I think it literally makes the prose better. I mean, I’m really positive on it. I think that it is really good broadly because people love it so much. People have been so encouraging and so nice, I mean, I have gotten so much more than my share of love, I mean I’m really – fandom if you’re listening I’m really, really grateful for it. It just does mean the world to me. And people say such nice things about my stuff and I really do think it’s kind of encouraged me to be better and I try to do my share of encouraging other people. For me it’s always been a wonderful, warm place to write, and I’ve felt really supported and loved in fandom.

DJ: Do you have a particular piece of work that you found has been the best received in general, in fandom?

Speranza: Yeah, I mean at the minute it probably still is Written By The Victors, which was just unlike anything in my experience. I mean, it was this SGA story and what was so amazing, aside from the response – which continues to come in, I mean the story was done in 2007, which in internet time you know, there were dinosaurs, but it’s a long time, you know, it’s five years and people are still reading and reccing it – but the part that really got to me was the incredible creativity people had of their own off the story. And in fact I try to collect it and celebrate it as much as I can, um, but you know people made art for the story and wrote poetry, and recorded kind of song cycles and made vids and you know Lim made this podfic, you know, or edited this podfic that was, it may be the longest podfic out there, it’s something like six hours and 32 people on like six continents, I mean it’s like a joke. But to see people, I guess that- I would say it’s what the powers that be feel when we make – I hope it’s what they feel, it would be what they felt if they had any sense at all – to see somebody engage your work that way and make beautiful things about it and near it. And so that really in that way is really a cut above. Every couple of years I think to myself you know, I’ve written the story that’s going to be the first line of my obituary, fannishly. For a while it was ‘oh, you know Francesca who wrote the Nature Series’, and then it was ‘Speranza who wrote ‘Chicago’s Most Wanted’, and then, and now it’s kind of ‘the author of Written By The Victors’. Um but it’s been enough times that I’m confident that I’m not going anywhere and so that someday I’ll do something that-

DJ: You’ve still got another one in you.

Speranza: I think so. I mean I was sort of ready to say well that’s the last one, well not the last one but that’s going to be the one that I’m known for, but it’s happened enough times, ‘Chicago’s Most Wanted’ being notoriously, you know, for a long time I sort of thought ‘well that’s it then, I’ve done Chicago’s Most Wanted and that’s going to be the story that everybody remembers when my name comes up and now it’s Written By The Victors’, and so, you know, where there’s light there’s hope. Um, to make something else. And I do think that you can only write the work you can write, I mean I say this all the time, but I try to write what I can write today. You know?

DJ: Right.

Speranza: And I think that the way you keep making stuff is you keep the pipe clean. You know you just – today’s story, and if you don’t like today’s story you’ll like tomorrow’s story, and you’ll like the story I write next week and you’ll like the story I’ll write next year, and you kind of just kind of keep swinging at the balls as they get thrown to you.

DJ: You ever put anything out there that you hated, that you wanted to take back right away?

Speranza: No. Though I can think of two times when I did pull something back. I was made to pull back Some Strange Prophecy, which I had released and then my beta’s were like ‘no you’re really, really, really not done with it, and you have to take it back’ and I took it back it came out with another I don’t remember how many words. But the fandom was like, no you’re not finished with that yet. And so it was pulled back and expanded and then put out again.

DJ: Wow.

Speranza: Yeah. And it was a really long monstrous, endless story I couldn’t get out of and at some point I was like ‘well I’m done’, and they were like ‘no you’re not’, and I was like ‘alright. I guess not’.[DJ laughs] But it wasn’t like I hated it, I just really was trying to find my way out of it and I may have pulled the trigger a little soon. And sadly actually I have a West Wing vid which I think is not up at the minute which I’ve put out and pulled back, and pulled out and it may be one of those things where at some point you ‘wow that was a really’- you probably don’t even know I did a West Wing vid, I did a West Wing vid! I tried to do one, but sometimes you know you just have to, I think actually sometimes you have to let the thing be what it is and say ‘okay that’s not perfect, and now I’m going to make the next one’, but I think if you get caught up endlessly tweaking…

DJ: Yes.

Speranza: You know, I know this in all kinds of writing actually. I mean you see professional novelists do this, they end up kind of tweaking a book, and tweaking a book and at some point you need someone to just kind of take it away from you and start another one. So generally in fact no, I’ve never put out anything I hated and I think that it’s important, I think it’s really important to finish. So for instance I have no WIPs, I have no Works in Progress.

DJ: And thank god for that.

Speranza: Yeah, I finish, I dammit, I finish everything. I do. If I discarded it gets finished, and even if it gets finished imperfectly it gets finished and it’s the best I could do at the time that I could do it and that’s it because I think that this thing of having endless WIPs is a mistake. I think you have to finish it and learn from it and then go and make something else.

DJ: That is excellent advice for any new writer out there, and for some of the old writers-

Speranza: I do. I think so ‘cause otherwise it haunts you. I mean writers literally get haunted and they sort of feel ‘well I can’t do anything else until I finish this thing’ and I think, you know what, finish it. Drive it to the nearest conclusion and get it done and put it out there and learn what you needed to learn and conceive the next one differently, but it’s almost like you can’t turn one thing into another thing. Sometimes it’s just what it is and you should finish it and make something else.

DJ: That’s excellent advice.

Speranza: Try again, fail again. Fail better. I think fail better is actually a really good motto too. Meaning okay, you just do it and make it, cut it off, make another thing. And I think it’s only by making lots of things. What is it? Gladwell, Michael Gladwell says that you have to do 10,000 hours of something before you get good at it. I think just get on with it. [chuckles]

DJ: What is new and exciting for you, these days? Fandomwise.

Speranza: Um. Well you know we made, I don’t know if you saw, but astolat and I, made this video called Anything For Love, starring Me. I’m actually in it banging my head against the desk as I am wont to do.

DJ: Nice.

Speranza: But really it was about – it was a true story, it all happened, of astolat saying ‘no, really, you have to watch Thor’ and I said sort of said ‘I’m not going to watch Thor. I’m not doing it.’ She said, ‘yes you are!’ [DJ speaking in background slightly muffles this part] I mean I have a limit and it’s Thor and that’s it I’m not watching Thor, I’m not, alright, okay I’m watching, and now I’m writing Thor. And so really it was like this fandom’s, it just seemed like the fannish story of no, no, no, I absolutely okay… [both laugh] Er and that’s the vid. The vid is a bit about I am absolutely positively no way going to watch this show about Teen… oh alright I’ll watch the werewolves. Right, I mean isn’t that our story?

DJ: Absolutely. I mean that’s how I found SGA was that way too.

Speranza: Yeah. No I’m not-

DJ: I’m not doing it.

Speranza: No it looks stupid. I’m not. No I- alright. Yeah, okay, the little one’s kind of cute. Alright. I er. So er, anyway, so anyway I seem to be writing Thor because that happened to me. I’m watching Sherlock and I’m also watching Person of Interest. It’s slash candy, but it’s old school, you know it’s fandom like it’s, I don’t know, 1994, because it’s so, the relationship is so suppressed that you really kind of have to work to excavate it. So I’m in this ridiculous case where on the one hand I’m shipping Thor/Loki who are wearing gigantic green satin capes and horns and-

DJ: Like they’re constantly touching each other in all the movies and-

Speranza: Yeah and flinging each other into deep space. And then there’s Rhys and Finch who, you know, sometimes make eye contact [DJ laughs], and occasionally speak to each other. Directly. But rarely. Often they telephone. So I’ve got these really radical extremes of behaviour, which I suppose is like the ying and yang of my fannish slashy life. Right, the too much and not enough. The extremes of, I don’t know, homosocial behaviour or something. But I don’t know, I think fandom is actually really fun at the minute. I think there is a lot of really fun source going on there. And I have to say I have not yet watched the Teen Wolf, but I was, did you see the tumblr footage of the guys on the ship?

DJ: Well I saw the AfterElton slash poll, and I saw that I guess that they call it Sterek,

Speranza: Yeah.

DJ: This particular, um. Well I saw the popularity of that and thought well I really can’t step away from that, I’m really going to have to check that out now.

Speranza: Yeah I think you have, but if you go on tumblr and you see this footage of the Sterek actors, you know pretty much sitting in each other’s laps. On a ship DJ. As they say, winking at you, ‘We’re on ship.’ Right? [DJ bursts out laughing]

DJ: So they’re feeding the fandom already?

Speranza: Listen, seriously you ca- that is such an understatement that I can’t even convey to you the marvelousness of these two actors’ pandering. It turns out I like being pandered to.[DJ continues to laugh in the background] I know it’s crazy. You feel free, pretty boys, to pander to me any time you like.

DJ: That’s right.

Speranza: I’m open to that. I’ll give you my number, pander away.

DJ: Gimme, gimmie, gimmie – a man after midnight.

Speranza: Yeah, and I saw fans literally being, ‘alright already, I’ll ship you’, you know what I mean? Like, yes, I’ll give in, I will ship you. Anyway, I have not yet had time to see the cute teen werewolves, but I feel like anybody who – I feel like that can’t be bad, you know?

DJ: No, it can’t be bad. And that’s what the PVR is for.

Speranza: Right.

DJ: You can always catch up.

Speranza: No, but I do have to get my hands on the – that sounds wrong – but get my hands on the [laughing] teen werewolves. Just because I think that, you know, that many- that many Sterek fans can’t be wrong. I trust my fellow fans. I think they must be right about that.

DJ: Right. And that’s what they are, they’re like a cult, it’s almost like Amway some days, I find.

Speranza: Yeah.

DJ: They’re all trying to drag you down, drag you under.

Speranza: But you know, where there’s smoke there’s fire. My sense is that the teen werewolves are probably flaming. [DJ laughs] Or something like that. On fire.

DJ: Alright. Well, teen werewolves brings us right to our theme of this episode, slashcast 35, which is of course the supernatural, it is our Halloween episode.

Speranza: Ah.

DJ: That seems to be the hottest trend. You were saying earlier superhero trending, and that sort of thing has happening. Right now it appears to be the supernatural, the paranormal: vampires, werewolves, ghosts, fairy tales-

Speranza: So it’s Thursday in fandom, though, right? I mean.

DJ: That’s true.

Speranza: It’s just Thursday, isn’t it? I mean this, this is opposed to the gravely lit story of, you know, working class poor in Manchester? Like, what? That’s what we do right?

DJ: That’s true. That’s true.

Speranza: Yeah, I mean, yes you’re right, we’re in a particularly paranormal – I don’t know - mean Buffy, I mean really was I gotta say coming out of – I mean I guess when Due South is your most realistic show with the wolf, with the magical realism wolf and ghosts in the closest. I think, um? I don’t know that I think this is so abnormal.

DJ: Yeah, it’s not really abnormal, but it certainly is trending. I guess. It’s very visual starting probably about three-four years ago, I guess, True Blood that sort of broke it open all of the networks, right?

Speranza: You know that there’s this theory that when democrats come into office you get vampires, and [DJ splutters with laughter]. No, no, no. Sorry I’m not making this up. That when democrats come into office you get vampires, and when republicans come into office you get zombies.

DJ: Wow.

Speranza: The zombies. No, dude this is like a thing. The zombies are like a metaphor of like the working class coming to kind of get your stuff, and the democrats bring them all the kind of sexy hotcha, you know, sexual deviants, you know, liberal sexuality bits.

DJ: Nice. Do anything you want to do in your bedroom kind of things.

Speranza: That’s it. So it was literally Obama came in and boom there was like tw- literally like, Obama was elected and it was like boom, Twillight and True Blood, like all the vampires came flying out. [DJ laughs] That’s my political theory of fandom.

DJ: Wow. I think you may have to start a convention of some kind for that.

Speranza: That would have made the Republican convention a lot more interesting to watch.

DJ: Obviously the Teen Wolf is appealing to you, or at least the premise of it is. But I have a question for you. Do you think it’s easier to slash, or to explore kink with non-human characters? Or characters that aren’t 100% human?

Speranza: Um, but I mean I think in general probably yeah, alright. I mean, one of the things about paranormal universes is that they’re just so open to metaphor, right?

DJ: Right.

Speranza: And we like metaphor. And you can kind of suspend the rules a little bit. Um. You know it’s funny because it reminds me a little bit of women’s writing, you know, I think women have always actually been really, really, great at writing genre. And I think that women actually don’t. Here’s another of my theories, I think that women actually don’t like realism all that much. Realism’s kind of depressing. And I think that the extent to which we do want to talk about things we care about we prefer to talk about them in metaphor and I think that that’s much easier to do, in kind of really paranormal fandoms. And so I don’t think there’s any sort of accident when you come up on the big women writers and it’s Rowling and it’s Twilight, and it’s The Hunger Games. I think there’s something about the metaphor there that allows women to talk about stuff that they care about. Where like doing, you know, some lifetime movie of week, is just drab and boring. At least to me it is. I know some people like that sort of thing, but I don’t like it at all, I’d much rather read The Hunger Games than I’d read a serious, a serious novel about the problems of being a teenage girl. Like I’m completely bored by that, I’m bored by the description of that. I feel like have her kill everybody with a bow and arrow and I’m interested.

DJ: As a metaphor, of course.

Speranza: Well it is, kind of a metaphor, right?

DJ: It is. It is.

Speranza: It is a metaphor, even as it is not a metaphor. Right?

DJ: Exactly.

Speranza: There’s the thing with the- You know fandom works on that level all the time, but what is happening is, you know Buffy right?

DJ: Right.

Speranza: I mean it’s totally serious that she is actually killing actual vampires, and she is also negotiating herself through high school, college, and life and those things are exactly the same. And The Doctor is, you know, is fighting Daleks, and he is also on a different kind of a journey that is emotionally significant and meaningful, right? So, you wouldn’t want to read only one of those parts, I think. You know you want that double layer of it mattering on a more serious life level, and having the flying monkeys attack.

DJ: It’s like reading the paper versus reading, like you say The Hunger Games, you know I don’t want the News I want to watch Hawaii 50.

Speranza: Yeah.

DJ: The hand-waiving realism is the reason I turned it on.

Speranza: Right. I agree. The fannish version of Hawaii-50 is likely to be about something you care about even more than the show. [DJ makes agreeing noise] You also have all the other entertaining stuff. I just think that a lot of the fiction that is meant to be written for women realistically is really dull and depressing. So I think we all love the paranormal. It’s very funny because you know mundanes thing that genre is somehow flatter than serious literature, and in fact I find quite the opposite. What’s great about genre and paranormal and all of that is that it’s usually working on three levels at once. Yes on the one hand it’s a straightforward adventure story in which person a is trying to kill person b, but it’s usually there’s at least two other, there’s a sort of science fiction layer, the kind of metaphor layer socially, and then there’s often another kind of layer where it’s actually realism that I think is the two dimensional thing, I don’t know how genre got the bad rep. But I think it’s actually changing which is kind of cool. At least I hope it’s changing.

DJ: Where you are seeing more Emmys and awards going to – in media fandoms – towards the movies and the tv shows that maybe do focus a little bit more on the supernatural and/or a little bit more layered, a little bit less real-life ish.

Speranza: Yeah.

DJ: It’s happening.

Speranza: It’s been kind of weird also to watch, I mean I’ve been talking about this in my academic work a little bit, but it’s been really interesting to watch industry borrow fan practices. I’m not sure how I feel about it.

DJ: Yeah.

Speranza: But something, again, like Avengers, up until recently only fans could do that kind of crossover. That’s like a mainstream crossover. Like, I dunno, they’re stealing – they’re trying to steal our bag, and I don’t know how I feel what I think about that. Though I suppose I like being pandered to, as I say.

DJ: But the fanservice, some people might consider it disrespectful, or some of us might just find it very amusing.

Speranza: Well see in the old days fanservice, I don’t know, I tended to find fanservice a little bit more problematic because you got the sense that they were not genuinely comfortable with fandom. But I think that they do now recognise that fandom is kind of buttering their bread. [DJ makes agreeing noise] er and the fanservice feels a lot more heartfelt and genuine, to me, than it did five-ten years ago.

DJ: And our closing words here. How about some philosophy for our fandoms, some words of wisdom?

Speranza: I think even this day people somehow think that it’s somehow too late, not like it’s too late to join, but there’s some sort of secret entryway. Fandom is really one of those things that you just start doing it. You start making stuff and you start talking and I feel like sometimes think there’s some other secret handshake or you if need to know the knock. In fact that was definitely much truer in the old days, where you really couldn’t find fandom. And actually I think maybe that the kids today actually don’t need to hear this, that they do know that what you need to do is to start making your thing and put it out there. But in that way it’s always been easier to join fandom than it may have seemed, I think when you’re first joining fandom you think ‘my goodness how do all these people, sort of know each other and know their way around and do stuff’, and then the answer is you write one story to say thank you and you’d be surprised how it can spiral away from you, you know, right there. But, I think that the people who don’t know how to join are the people afraid to say something and I hope that people won’t be afraid to say something. I do worry a little, what do you think about the tumblr?

DJ: You know the tumblr confuses the heck outta me.

Speranza: Yeah, it is a bit.

DJ: I find it very impersonal, like the Twitter. I don’t see that there’s a lot of dialogue there. I know that it seems to be the trend and everybody’s saying everything in 160 characters or less or one big ass picture or less, but I just don’t even know if I can even communicate that way. I- there’s the shiny, but I can only be distracted by the shiny for so long.

Speranza: Yeah I like the shiny. The shiny is what brought me. I was sort of where is all – I mean the beautiful fan art.

DJ: Yes.

Speranza: And you know I’ve been really appreciating, you know there seem to be all these new forms, these new fan forms that are developing on twitter, I mean on tumblr in particular, and I find that all really exciting. Um but the reason I’m thinking about it is that it seems really clear that like the good thing about tumblr is that it does seem to kind of lower the barrier for participation. But I hope that also fans will reach out to form the kinds of friendships, you know the more personal level. Because you might like a lot of people fannishly, but only – and this is no insult – but only a smaller number of them might be the kind of people you really become friends with in a real life way.

DJ: Right.

Speranza: But in fact I feel like, you know, newbies today just do not underestimate the potential for this to become a really meaningful life choice for you. And I guess I hope that tumblr allows people to engage others – not everybody – but others in fandom sufficiently in order to have it be their culture in a way that I feel like I was lucky enough, and am lucky enough, to have fandom be my culture. You know what I mean?

DJ: Right.

Speranza: Like fandom really is my tribe, it’s like my home and my tribe, and has been for quite a long time, where I feel like those are my people, and that I’m in a real relationship with people who have brought so many great things to my life. And I hope that the new interfaces with the shiny also allow people to connect in deeper ways. And I suspect they will, I mean, fans are like water, you know, we’ll find the crevices.

DJ: That’s right.

Speranza: You know, we’ll find the ways to talk and communicate and dammit if we can’t find it we’ll build it, ‘cause that’s what we do. But in fact I do hope that the newbies don’t be afraid to reach out and kind of know the person behind that gif, or whatever, as a person, because in fact fandom is full of really great people, behind the shiny.

DJ: That’s really good advice. I’m going to try to learn more about tumblr myself so I don’t fall behind on it, but um…

Speranza: See I’m good at reading, I’m trying to figure out how to, I always want to meet new people, like I don’t always, as much as I have many, many, many fantastic people already in my life, you know one of the things you want to do in fandom is as you move into new fandoms you want to be able to make a personal connection with people whose work you think is amazing. I’m finding it a little hard to reach out, but I’m determined to do it because it’s so worth it.

DJ: Yeah that’s great. Yeah those days are slowly coming to an end too, the comments of-

Speranza: You think?

DJ: -between people, in some ways. It seems, I mean I only watch so many things, of course I’m on the journals, Dreamwidth, livejournal, all those things. So it seems as if they seem to be narrowing.

Speranza: Yeah but I feel like it’s got to come out somewhere.

DJ: Absolutely.

Speranza: We’re Whac-a-Mole aren’t we? If you whack it down one place it’s gotta come bursting out some place else, it’s gotta be some place. Some people say it’s chat. Which it might be. Maybe like it’s live chat or something like that. Yeah ‘cause that’s how fandom started in fact was off people connecting directly, right?

DJ: Yes.

Speranza: We don’t only want to interface through the software, I think.

DJ: Yeah.

Speranza: We’re going to figure this out, DJ.

DJ: We’re going to figure this out, we are.

Speranza: I know that we’re going to do this, it’s just at the moment, a couple of us oldos are kind of confused, and we’re going to get past this. I’m confident.

DJ: That’s awesome and it’s awesome that you’re going to fight the good fight to stick around with us, cause we sure appreciate that.

Speranza: I have to yeah. It’s where I live. It’s like, you know, I’m not going to lose my house, I just have to remember where I live. [DJ chuckles]

DJ: That’s exactly right and thank you so much for joining us today in this interview. Talking about your fandom tribe. I’m stealing that.

Speranza: Yes.

DJ: And fandom Whack-A-Mole. Which is also worthy of stealing. I think it’s a pin worthy.

Speranza: Great. No, no, I’m confident we’re going to come popping up, as we do.

DJ: Well this has been DJ interviewing Speranza, thank you so much for joining us today for this interview and for telling us all about your fannish history, and your fun times then, and fun times coming up and we hope to see you, and a lot of you hopefully, on tumblr or wherever you want to be.

Speranza: So I’ll be popping up somewhere near you! [laughs]

DJ: That’s great. We’ll find ya! Thank you so much.

Speranza: Thank you.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 35: Slashers on the Street

2013-02-02T14:32:55Z

Hosts: wook77 and elanorofcastile
Reporting on: Dragon*Con

Wook: With the Slashers on the Street segment I’m Wook77 and I’m sitting here with Elanorofcastile and we’re going to be talking about our recent attendance at Dragon*Con where we had a rocking good time.

Elanor: So awesome that we’re already registered to go back next year, so that has to say something.

Wook: Yeah. Registered before we even finished the dang convention.

Elanor: It’s true! [laughs]

Wook: Oh, so cool. So. Alright, so I totally dragged EoC to, like, a million and one of the panels I wanted to go to. [both laugh]

Elanor: Yup. That’s okay.

Wook: Mainly because I got her to realise the awesomeness that is Bioware as a gaming company.

Elanor: Oh man. Oh man. So great.

Wook: I’m just saying. So the first panel that we went to was… was it the Voice Acting in Video Games panel?

Elanor: Yup, that was the first one. Our first experience with sitting in a line! [laughs]

Wook: Oh my god. So the lines were… what did you think of them, first?

Elanor: They were kind of naff but I guess that one thing they said too, about this year, was that this was the first year that they’d had a video gaming track, so they weren’t really sure, I guess when they’d decided to have it, how many people they were going to have interested in so they just kind of stuck us in some rooms at the Hilton. It definitely needed to be about three times as big and they totally could have filled the rooms still. But on the other hand the kind of fun thing about sitting in the line is getting to see other people who are interested in the same thing as you as you are so you get to kind of talk to them, where the rest is kind of a giant mix and so that’s kind of where you find some of the pockets of likeminded folk. Yeah it was cool, um, I did the daring thing and I cosplayed the first day, on Friday. My first time. Woo!

Wook: And it was awesome. Oh my god.

Elanor: I had so much fun, besides the fact that I was hot as hell, because oh my god, I had forgotten what summers in Atlanta were like. So I cosplayed as a RED Scout from Team Fortress 2, and as Alyx Vance from Half Life 2. I kind of felt really awesome. I had this guy come up and ask if he could have his picture taken with me, because he was another RED Scout and he was so excited to see someone else. So yaaaay!

Wook: I don’t think excited was the right word, by the way.

Elanor: Er, no.

Wook: Giddy. He was giddy. He actually, like, did a little happy dance.

Elanor: It’s true and it was pretty awesome. [laughs]

Wook: And then Alyx Vance, when you were like ‘nobody’s even going to recognise this’, and then like, what? An hour later we fuckin’ see someone wearing that costume walking right past us. [laughs]

Elanor: Yeah. And a Gordon Freeman in an ATV with her, so I was like ‘oh god, that was amazing.’ Yay. [laughing]

Wook: And I have to say, having gone to Comic-Con, I didn’t think the lines were bad at all. I was actually really surprised that you could show up about an hour before a panel and be guaranteed a seat. I was freaking shocked by that development, because at Comic-Con, at least the last time I went (which was the first year Twilight was out, so I haven’t gone in years) but they used to let people line up, like eight hours ahead of time and then if you were sitting in the panel beforehand you got to stay and the people that waited in line for, like, eight hours got fucked. And so I liked at Dragon*Con that they were like, ‘no, if you’re in the panel beforehand you have to go to the line, sorry.’ But no, the rooms for the video game panels were ridiculously small, and basically I think we only really went to video game panels, so we never really-

Elanor: Yes that’s true. [Wook is laughing] Well I know that when we walked by I did peek in to see what stuff looked like in the main ballroom. I mean it reminded me of Star Trek Las Vegas with the giant hall with people up far in front of you. So that’s kind of what the rest, the big stuff was like.

Wook: Yes. So the Voice Acting in Video Games panel was amazing and more amazing for me than probably for you, [Elanor laughs] because Mark Meer, the voice of Commander Shepard in Mass Effect crashed the panel, whereas you lost one of your people so that I could get my person. [laughs]

Elanor: [sort of unenthusiastic laugh] It’s true.

Wook: And then of course, [blissful sigh] there was the most ultimate voice in the entire world. I swear to god this man could just read the phone book and I would be happy. I watched Raphael Sbarge play incestuous necrophiliac and I still was like [adopts very high pitched voice] ‘I love this man’. So, Raphael Sbarge was on the panel, and then your lady whose name I just forgot.

Elanor: Ellen McLain, she was the voice of GLaDOS in Portal and Portal 2, as well as the Administrator in Team Fortress 2. That was pretty awesome. The person that we lost though was her husband who does the voice of the sniper in Team Fortress 2.

Wook: And that was a great panel. The questions that the audience were asking were so much better than, like, we were sort of mocking some of the questions that we heard at Star Trek Las Vegas, and I didn’t think we got any of those ‘so what was it like when you died?’ questions. Like, even one.

Elanor: Well and two it felt like there was a lot of respect from the crowd, especially considering, you know, Mark Meer and Raphael Sbarge voicing characters in Mass Effect and the whole Mass Effect 3 ending debacle. There wasn’t anyone being a jerk about it. You know, it was a very welcoming kind of comfortable questions and respectful audience and respectful people on the panel, you know, they were great to listen to, of course [happy sigh].

Wook: Yeah. Well and you know you bring up the Mass Effect 3 debacle, but we went to the Meet Bioware panel where outside we were all talking about how we sort of hated the endings, um it was a very nice line bonding experience ‘cause I’m definitely one of the ones who hated the ending originally, and it was very respectful any time anybody had any questions about the ending, or why it went down the way that it did, and there were some great questions that were asked. And everybody was super respectful, and I have to say that even though Chris Priestley’s nickname is ‘The Evil Chris Priestley’ he was extremely respectful of the fans that were-

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: -so upset. We met one lady in line who Thane her love interest and those who aren’t in Mass Effect basically, so if you are planning on playing and don’t want any spoilers you’re gonna have to fastforward a couple of seconds here. But Thane dies and nobody- and he’s a love interest and nobody really acknowledges it and Mass Effect 3 ended how many months ago and she was still extremely upset about it and her voice was shaking and you could tell she just wanted somebody to hear the fact that she was not happy about how Thane died. And Chris Priestley was beyond respectful in his response to that.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: So definitely kudos to David Gaider and Christ Priestley.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: Who had a giant pair of balls the both of them, because they were all alone basically for a lot of stuff with the fans. Like they were like ‘hey we’re gonna go sit over here and if you want to come talk to us, come talk to us’ so I liked how accessible everybody was. Mark Meer just walked right up, dressed as Commander Shepard by the way, it was freaking awesome. Although it was totally awkward because we were in line for the Meet Bioware panel and I was like ‘oh my god that’s Mark Meer’ and everybody around me was like [adopts squeaky voice] ‘that’s not Mark Meer, that’s just somebody dressed as Shepard’, and I’m like, ‘well that’s Mark Meer and I’m going up for my photo’. [both laugh] It was so awesome. I think I can speak for both of us as I, like, take over the conversation here [Elanor laughs] and tell the world that our favourite panel that we went to was the Sex and Sexuality in Video Games panel.

Elanor: Yeah, very much so.

Wook: It was at night, so I guess they thought people were going to be showing a lot of sex scenes or something, and so did a lot of the audience members until they heard the word privilege, and then no joke we had a bunch of people leave, and then a bunch of people who actually wanted to hear about sexuality and sex in video games came in. It was basically David Gaider up there talking about why video games are slowly but surely embracing the idea that gay people exist, and why it just makes smart business sense. So if you didn’t get to hear our interview with David Gaider in our Video Games episode you definitely, definitely need to take a listen to it, but he really sort of expanded from that interview in this panel, and holy shit, right?

Elanor: Yeah. It was pretty much the greatest thing ever. And I will say too, one thing, even though a bunch of people left there wasn’t any comment during the panel, like ‘oh, well I guess they were just here for t and a’, or whatever, I don’t think. You know, so it was still kind of open, respectful even though it wasn’t what they were expecting.

Wook: Yeah and I was sitting next to a guy who at an earlier panel had told me he was a straight guy so I didn’t think I was going to see him at the sexuality panel but instead he was basically like sitting forward and was extremely engaged. And it was really cool, because there was such a wide, diverse, audience in there talking about sex and sexuality in video games, whether it’s the depiction of women, the depiction of violence against women – they didn’t really get into that as much as I was sort of hoping he would – but he definitely brought up the business logistics of it. It was kind of eye-opening, like, the whole idea of, you know, what the industry thinks the average video gamer is, what the public things the average video gamer looks like, and how those two are kind of aligned where they both basically think, like, an older teenage dude, when really, what was the age that they said?

Elanor: I want to say that it was in the 30s.

Wook: Yeah it was like, late 30s?

Elanor: Mid to late 30s, I think, yeah.

Wook: Yeah. And slowly but surely women are taking over the top spot for video gamers.

Elanor: Mmmhmm. Yes.

Wook: So that was pretty cool. The only thing that I would have liked, and I didn’t get called on so I didn’t get to ask my question, but was they measure how many people play the heterosexual romances versus the homosexual romances, and I was kind of curious what percentage that was but I didn’t get a chance to ask. And I know that with, um, DragonAge, during that whole StraightMaleGamer rant thing that David Gaider addressed, I’m remembering a figure of, like, 20% or something? But it was in an off conversation in response to Yatzee admitting that he played the gay romance as well. Somebody brought it up in response to that and said well, you know, like it was 20% or something. [Elanor makes noise of agreement] We also got to hang out with a bunch of fandom people that we haven’t seen since, um, basically the last Harry Potter convention that we went to, which was Azkatraz. We got to hang out with Emma Grant for a while.

Elanor: Yeah. Woohoo. [laughs] We have some sweet Slashcast swag so if you ever see us, or-

Wook: If you know that we’re going to a Conference drop us a line, you can tweet us or send us an ask on tumblr and we’ll meet up with you and get you some cool Slashcast swag if you know that we’re going to a convention.

Elanor: Yeah. So another track that we partook in was the podcasting track, because you know, since, hello, we are a podcast I thought it would be cool to check out and see what sort of tips and tricks they had, since, you know, we’re by no means professionals, we’re just some folks who like to have fun. And one of the neat things was we’d asked a question about better reaching our audience, because, you know, we adore all of our listeners but we want to, you know, share the awesome that is Slashcast around. And so we had mentioned that, you know, we’re a podcast that talks about LGBT in mass media and different things relating to that and fandom and we were hanging out at the end and this older gentleman came over and asked us about the podcast said he was definitely interested and would give a listen and so, yeah, we definitely got to give out some sweet pins to him and he wore it with pride and it was totally great to, you know, go with it and-

Wook:And it was weird because everybody in the room he would probably have been one of the few that I wouldn’t have said would be interested in listening, so.

Elanor: For sure.

Wook: It was a nice little attitude adjustment for myself too, on my assumptions of others, so I liked that. But oh, speaking of panels, can we just talk about the Meet Bioware panel again? I’m sorry, seriously. [Elanor laughs] Because, okay, I’ve made no secret of the fact that Raphael Sbarge is, like, basically the love of my life. You know, no secret there, right?

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: Well, in the Meet Bioware panel, I don’t even know that I’m able to say it because I’m seriously like [shrieks] ‘oh my god’, now the question was ‘What’s your favourite part of recording, do you like to do, like, the sounds and the grunts, do you like to do the action lines, like, what do you like to do?’ and Raphael Sbarge says that the romances are his favourite part, which hubba hubba, um [laughs] so he says something like, and I recorded it so you would think that I have the correct terminology in my head but I turn into a flailing fangirl every time I hear his voice, he said that ‘it was really nice to bring the male Shepard/ Kaiden Alenko romance out into the light,’ and that that was actually his favourite part of recording the romances in Mass Effect 3.

Elanor: Mmmhmm, and that he doesn’t do, like he doesn’t approach romancing male Shepard or romancing female Shepard any different because it’s just romance, you know, it’s love. So, it’s not something that has to be told dramatically different, it’s just, it’s just love. So. [happily] Ahh.

Wook: And at the same time, when he referred to Shepard with a gendered pronoun he did say her, [Elanor makes sound of agreement] and so it was kind of interesting as well, he leans towards a Fem!Shep which is really important too, for the fact that most of our Slashcast listeners are women, and so the fact that he prefers to play with a female Shepard is really important as well because heros can be women as well. There was also the teasing between Mark Meer and Raphael Sbarge in like every freaking panel they were in together, where they basically, like kept talking about their characters as if they were their characters.

Elanor: Yeah. [laughs]

Wook: And then every once in a while Mark Meer would like go, ‘Oh, well I’m sorry about Bermeyer there, Kaiden,’ and Kaiden’s like, ‘oh it’s no big deal, I always play with Fem!Shep anyway’, and so [squeeing] it was, it was really awesome. [Elanor laughs] Which. My goal is to make everybody play a video game with equality in it and someday I’m going to make sure everybody was.

Elanor: Yup.

Wook: Oh man. But, oh one thing we didn’t talk about was meeting awesome people. Like, we kind of brushed over it at little bit with some of the line stuff, but we met some of the most awesome people there. I think that’s one of the best things about going to conventions is getting to hang out with people. And maybe people that you don’t even realise. Like, so I live in Arizona, I had to go to Atlanta but to get to Atlanta I had to fly west an hour to end up in Los Angeles to fly out to Atlanta. And of course I have the longest layover known to man, and I met somebody awesome, like I made an offhand comment to the smelly dude that was sitting next to me while I was waiting for the plane to board and this girl, her name’s Jen, and she started talking to me too and we were ‘we’re not going to get in to do early check in’ and all this stuff so, you know. So I went up to her and was like ‘hey, could you save me a seat, like a middle seat, ‘cause I know I’m not going to get a good seat, right?’ Cause I was like in the last boarding and I ended up meeting two of the most awesome people, like, we just nattered on for like a five hour flight.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: It was awesome! And then it turns out that she runs this company called ZombieZom and that she like makes Zombie paraphernalia, including Mitt Romeny is a Zombie tshirts, which I thought were, like, rocking. I totally have got to order myself one of those.

Elanor: Yeah. For sure.

Wook: But hanging out with Emma Grant was really great. I know that she got to hang out with some people at a Sherlock get together but people watching was awesome too.

Elanor: Yeah. It was, I think they said I want to say that the last number that I knew about was 46,000 people were there. When I actually think about that, yeah, the lines were pretty easy considering how many people were there. There was such variety in all the costumes. I mean, there was a guy who was, you remember those balsa wood dinosaur skeletons that you’d put together when you were a kid, from the science kits?, there was a guy who had made a pretty, not full size, but pretty damn huge T-Rex one that he wore. There people as things from pretty much anything you could imagine, from the mascot from Community – the human being – to the two women from Absolutely Fabulous and pretty much any video game, or anime or comic book character that you could imagine. I think we saw a Captain America with his shield made out of beer cans or something, I don’t know, it was like crazies. [laughs]

Wook: Thor – Kanima Jackson! [laughing hard]

Elanor:Yeah, yeah.

Wook: [Something unintelligible and high pitched]

Elanor: That was great. I was like, ‘that person kind of, oh hey they’re like half Kanima’.

Wook: It was awesome.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: My favourite was all of the Gambits everywhere. The female Gambit-

Elanor: Yeah. She was gorgeous.

Wook: Oh my god, she was amazing. And then we went to one of the LGBT mixers that they were hosting, [Elanor makes noise of agreement] and there was the cutest, friendliest, nicest Gambit in there as well.

Elanor: Yeah. Oooh yeah.

Wook: I thought I was going to be a creeper and like ask for his photo while he’s like clearly hanging out with his boyfriend and his friends and they’re all drinking and having a good time, and I’m like ‘can I have a photo, huh?’ and I thought he would think I was a creeper, but no he was like super awesome.

Elanor: Yeah, he, er… and super handsome.[laughs]

Wook: He was. I thought it was cute that he ruffled my hair like I was a little kid though. [Elanor laughs] Oh my gosh, but it was like seriously non-stop, basically like, [Elanor makes noise of agreement]. Oh! Should we talk about the craziest, stupidest event we went to?

Elanor: [holding back a laugh] Yes. I feel like we should.

Wook: Okay.

Elanor: Because it was bad.

Wook: And it was, like, frustrating.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: So, in addition to the LGBT mixer that we went to we went to the Star Wars speed dating event. [both laugh]

Elanor: Oh my god.

Wook: [hidden under laughter] – control our giggles because it was the lamest, most disorganised, most awful thing I have been to, and remember I have been to a lot of crazy bullshit things in my life.

Elanor: [laughs] It’s true.

Wook:I’m in safety and this was worse than any safety conference I’ve ever been to. [Elanor laughs] Oh my god, so okay, they advertised it as open to any sexuality. And on their advertising they even have Sandperson / Mandalorian, so that’s how open they are supposedly. So they have all of the dudes line up outside in one giant line, which I’m sure that there were some gay dudes in that line going, ‘Er, why am I here with the straight dudes?’. And then they had the lesbian circle, which was pretty awkward for all those involved, and then there was a woman who kept shrieking at everybody to take a chair, get a pencil, fill out their fricking card, make sure they had a number. Um, the lady next to me was drinking to be able to get through it, and they didn’t have enough chairs, so it was like the most ridiculous thing, like, they would open up a circle of chairs and these women would like fall over each other to, like, get a chair they were basically, like threatening one another’s life.

Elanor: Yeah. We’re Star Wars speed dating guys!

Wook: Exactly. And so we, EoC and I ended up sitting, like, right next to the speakers. They only had, like, two speakers or the entire fucking room, and we got to sit next to one of them and I was deaf by the end of the night.

Elanor: Yeah, yeah.

Wook: You had to lean in, like, super painfully close. Yeah it wasn’t a good experience at all. And it ended up that they basically blew off the gay dudes. And then they only had like, what, six lesbians there?

Elanor: Yeah, maybe even that.

Wook: So they were all like just sitting in a circle staring at each other, like shoved off to the side, which was ridiculous. But it was completely disorganised.

Elanor: Yeah, and especially considering that we had to register, like to sign up beforehand and had to magically remember this number, which let me tell you: no. [laughs] So it was just crazy, you know, you would have thought that okay there was a registration so they’ll know how many guys, how many girls. Granted they didn’t ask what your preference was in the registration, so that should be something they should add in. It was a clusterfuck, but ain’t no one getting laid.

Wook: Speaking of clusterfucks. [Elanor laughs] We’ll get away from the Star Wars speed dating because we wanted to attend a panel that was about, um-

Elanor: Ostensibly about.

Wook: - Gender and Femininity in comic books.

Elanor:Yeah.

Wook: So a. the speaker is like 10 minutes late, b. it wasn’t at all about what the hell they said, because it suddenly became masculinity in Watchmen. We kind of all just looked at each other like, ‘the fuck?’ and we bailed.

Elanor: That was the only panel we walked out on.

Wook: Yeah.

Elanor: So.

Wook: We did have a lot of panels that we were like ‘ugh, that panel’s at 10 o’clock in the morning.’

Elanor: [chuckles] I want to sleep.

Wook: So this Gender and Sexuality panel, in comic books, was ridiculous, so if you go to Dragon*Con and you want to go to one of the academic panels be aware that they practice bait and switch on us.

Elanor: Yeah. And they do, granted I didn’t double check on their- if they had like a website or something, but when we got there they had a list of ‘here’s some broad topics that sound, like, exciting’, like the Sexuality and Femininity, and underneath was here’s like what the actual paper is that we’re going to be talking about, for this it was like ‘Masculinity in The Watchmen,’ so you have to read, like, the fine print. Granted there were some that looked like they could have been interesting, but I’m not going to sit through an hour talking about The Watchmen. Um, you know, I didn’t mind the comic, er the graphic novel when I read it, but I don’t want to discuss it in any depth, especially in regards to sexuality and the treatment of the female characters and stuff like that.

Wook: Yeah. And they weren’t even going to talk about the treatment of female characters.

Elanor: It’s true.

Wook: It was just on masculinity. [speaking at the same time as below]

Elanor: They were just going to talk about dudes. [at the same time as above]

Wook: And I am so tired about talking about the dudes. I mean seriously, that’s all we ever talk about in comic books in the mainstream conversations. Can we stop talking about the fucking men and start talking about the women? Because seriously, does it get much more awesome than Storm or Rogue, or a million and one different characters that we sort of talked about in our comic books episode?

Elanor: Exactly.

Wook: You know and one of the panels that we wanted to go to on, in academic panels, was women in comics, ‘Strong Female Characters in Comics’ was what it was actually called or whatever, but the parade interfered with our ability to get to that panel.

Elanor: Yeah definitely one thing to be aware of is the parade. First of all I have no idea how the heck you could get there to be able to see anything. You’d have to like start camping out the night before. We were pretty much stuck on one side of the road. We couldn’t get across. It was horrible, there were so many people and it was just, oh my god.

Wook: Yeah it was awful. There was way too many people. You couldn’t see anything, you couldn’t get around it, you couldn’t get over to the Com hotels. It was awful. I mean I would have liked to have seen the parade but unfortunately we got stuck with nothing.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: But then we did meet two of the cutest people in the entire world at breakfast after that.

Elanor: It’s true, because of course right after everyone leaves the parade everyone floods all the nearby restaurants, going for food and we met a couple of really awesome guys. There were three of us, there were two of them and we were like, can you just put all five of us at a table and you’ll be done? And they sat us together and we had a great conversation about all sorts of stuff and one of them does some really fun art, kind of to the fun of well the interesting way we tiptoed around some things that we like until we think, bounce each other out.

Wook: [laughs] Yes.

Elanor: Until we said, ‘okay so yeah, so we like slash,’ and they’re like ‘well,’ and er, and finally once I got around to show that we were cool we were okay, you know we’re not horrible people or whatever, then you know it kind of came out that what more that they liked and they were ‘if they did a ??????? will the other stop?

Wook: Yeah, show us some more adult stuff.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: We were sitting in this very nice diner, with this really nice waiter who was getting worked off his ass.

Elanor: Yeah.

Wook: And one of the dudes that we met up with starts showing us gay porn basically, that he drew. And it was awesome. It was one of those random kismet moments and it was great. It was one of the best breakfasts’ ever.

Elanor: Definitely. [laughs] And I’m not just saying that because he made my Screwdrivers strong.

Wook: And the waiter was like totally, I know he caught it a couple of times, and he was just like ‘so, er, need a refill there?’ Like whatever. So the cool part of about like Dragon*Con, I think was the fact that everyone was so friendly and that’s not just us as con attendees saying it. We actually went to eat at The Hard Rock?

Elanor: Yeah. Oh my gosh. High recommendation for The Hard Rock Atlanta. Yes.

Wook: They were great. They did dancing, they were dressed up in costumes. They were, they made exclusive pins, like they were really nice and we wanted to tell the manager about how awesome our waitress was, and about how awesome all the staff was. And he starts going on about how, like, sometimes there’s conventions in town that, you know, people, they have to order people to take shifts during those conventions, and how people actually volunteer to work during Dragon*Con because the attendees are so nice.

Elanor: Yeah. And I mean, c’mon seriously how many other conventions in town do they get to –is it cool to be dressed up for, too? [laughs]

Wook: Yeah I liked how the one waitress at Hard Rock had um-

Elanor: She had Superman undies on over her pants.

Wook: Yes, that was awesome. She actually had Underoos on too, that was like the best part. And that sort of sentiment was shared all over the place. Like we ate at the food court the one day and there was another convention in town, and I won’t describe, like, what convention or anything, but the people there were very demanding. I would say that she was a complete bitchface, but I’m trying to be nice. And the guy behind the register was like ‘I love you Dragon*Con people so much, thank you for being so nice and so patient, you all are so lovely.’ And keep in mind they had to open up empty store fronts to have extra seating. Like that’s how many people were eating in this food court and everyone was going on about how lovely the Dragon*Con attendees were. So that was a pretty awesome experience. There wasn’t really anyone awful during the entire thing. Well there was the one person in costume who made a lot of people uncomfortable, um, was practicing a lot of bad touch. But other than that!

Elanor: I don’t remember that…

Wook: The furry.

Elanor: Oh. [awkward laughter]

Wook: But thankfully we got to watch from a distance.

Elanor: Yeah, yeah.

Wook: But we’re super stoked to go back next year, so if anybody is planning on attending Dragon*Con we’d love to hear from you and maybe we could have a Slashcast meetup. That would be awesome.

Elanor: Woohoo. For sure.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 37: Mailbag Transcript

2013-01-29T00:04:52Z

Mailbag Transcript for Episode 37
Hosts: wook77, emmagrant01, elanorofcastile, akemi42, djin7

Emma: Welcome to the mailbag segment for episode 37. I am Emmagrant and I am here with several other folks of the slashcast staff and we’re gonna talk about your comments on the last few episodes of slashcast and we’re also gonna talk about some stuff relating to this episode. So first of all we got some new comments on our Halloween episode, which was really exciting, that’s episode 35 and one of the comments was from numberthescars who said that Wook’s argument to stop using the term Gay Marriage and start using the term Marriage Equality really rang true with her and she’s not going to say anymore. So Wook you convinced somebody.

Wook: Yay. I just drives me nuts whenever I hear it especially when it’s something like a human rights campaign when they refer to gay marriage, and I’m like if you are using the language of the person that you hate you’ve already lost the debate. So yay that makes me very happy.

Emma: In the 90’s when republicans were using the term tax relief, the moment democrats started saying tax relief they had lost the battle. Because they were admitting that taxes are something you need relief from, when they say that. So gay marriage is like on the same page as that. It’s a term that the right coined to separate it from “real marriage”. Awesome argument I thought that was fantastic.

Rachel: Though I have to admit that because I’ve been playing a lot of videogames lately with a lot of teenage dudes, this is like level 2.01 for me. Im trying to get people to stop saying, you know when the other team is losing or it’s not a fun game that it’s gay

Emma: OMG I can imagine.

Rachel: I’m a whole echelon lower on the awareness.

Emma: But you’re fighting the good fight that’s awesome.

Wook: I’m trying but the site Backbone Zone has been quite helpful they did a bunch of promotional material that’s popped up on tumblr and elsewhere and I will link to them in the shownotes for anybody that hasn’t seen them. The best one is This Party is Gay and it shows like the gay pride parade and then this really boring party, saying This Party is Boring.

Wook: There was also one going around tumblr it shows all kind of different words you can use instead of gay and then it says ”and you picked gay? Go find a dictionary?” I like those too those are pretty awesome posters

Emma: And another comment that was left on that episode was from laeathearcher who talked about the lack of variety in the Teen Wolf fandom. Now I can’t speak to this, not being in the teen wolf fandom, but we have a few people on our staff who are.

Elanor: I think it was definitely overwhelmingly Sterek fic depends on who you kind of lurk around on tumblr but I started seeing more Peter and Danny kind of working into the edges so that’s been kind of nice. It’s kind of overwhelmingly Sterek for the most part.

Wook: I think part of that and this is obviously just my interpretation, it’s the fact that for the most part technically everyone else is involved in a relationship, Scott and Allison have a relationship, Lydia and Jackson have a relationship and even Boyd and Erica have a relationship and so when you have all these relationships, I think my tendency personally is I don’t break up the canon relationships. That’s why, you know I might have started with Harry/Draco in Harry Potter but I started liking Harry/Ginny, am I gonna get run out of slash fandom for saying that?

DJ: I liked Harry/Ginny too.

Wook: It’s hard to break up a healthy relationship. I think if Scott and Allison weren’t so funny and cute and quirky together, if he was a dick or she was a bitch I would have no problem breaking them up but the fact is they obviously love one another so for me to break that up as an author and then put them with other people, it’s really hard in my brain to do that and I think that’s why there’s a lack of diversity in the fics because there are these healthier relationships. And ok Scott and Allison are always constantly breaking up and getting back together but you can tell even when they’re broken up that they do care.

Emma: Well that’s really interesting, there are other fandom that I’ve been involved in, just as a lurker where I didn’t feel compelled to write any fic because the pairing I was interested in was canonical and it was being done well enough in the show or in the movie and I didn’t feel I had anything to add so I didn’t go there. So I can kind of see everyone’s paired off except these two guys and I can see how that would then lend itself to be the OTP of the fandom.

Wook: I think there’s been some really great Scott/Isaac fic out there that has dealt with that breakup and sort of pulled it into a believe fic but for me a lot of the times when Im reading a Sterek fic and Sciaac is the background pairing it drives me nust and I have to get out of the fic because it’s so unbelievable to me, to break up Scott and Allison. As much as I would like to see some diversity for me personally it has to be really well done if it its well done in canon. One character I would like to see more of is Danny. Danny is the only canon gay character and he’s barely in any of the shows, let alone any fic.

Elanor: And he’s awesome he’s so awesome.

Emma: Actually in her comment laeathearcher recommended a couple of fics with Danny. One of them she says is Danny/ Everyone. And the other one is Danny /Jackson. I have no idea who these people are but she recommended a couple. Have a look at her comment.

Wook: And Jackson is involved with Lydia. I’m not going to spoil Season 2, the Jaskson and Lydia dynamic becomes a pretty pivotal part of everything since halfway through season 1 so, for me Danny/ Jackson is really hard to buy because Jackson is clearly in love with Lydia and Lydia is clearly in love with Jackson and that’s one of the reasons why I have a problem reading Stiles/Lydia as well because of that same dynamic, so it’s not just that I can’t read slash fic with breaking up the canon pairs I can’t read het fic breaking up the canon pairs either. But more Danny would be lovely. Danny/Stiles if people have recommendations for that especially, I would love to read more of that.

Elanor: Oh that would be good. Yay!

Emma: So please post your recs in comments. On the post show post or on a tumblr ask. Wook wants them. And now we are going to move on to the topic of our current episode which is the fourth wall and fandom and how that relationship has changed over the last few years. So I’m gonna ask the staff to talk about our favourite personal fourth wall breaking experience you had in the fandom or another thing that we can talk about is crazy cool celebrity encounters within fandom.

Elanor: So something that’s going on right now, now as in the day we are recording this is, it likely won’t still be continuing when this episode is released, is the Desert Bus for Hope, it’s these guys and gals from the sketch comedy group LoadingReadyRun, they’re from Vancouver I believe and so they play the most boring videogame ever constantly to raise money for Child’s Play charity. They have the video of the game going on and then there’s also a chatroom and so you can do different, like, I’ll donate $20 of you sing this song. And so they sing a song on camera and then you donate money. It goes on for however many days. I think last year it was 6 days maybe 7 maybe 8.

One thing that started coming up is in the chat they started writing slash fic about the people doing the marathon and so, you know they acknowledge it and they talk about it on air. And they’re like, ah so they’re writing slash fic about us, awesome, and that sort of stuff. They do, ok now do some art. I think at one point they did a dramatic reading of slash fic about themselves on camera. It pretty hilarious to watch when it’s two in the morning and they are still going and that’s when the crazy staff starts happening they you know pull out the random books to read starting pulling up videos on youtube to dance to, like Caramell dansen I think they’ve done gangnam style several times so far. But yeah it’s a good time, the chat write slash fic about the actual people doing the marathon and sometimes they perform it. It’s a good time.

Wook: Even better is one of the gangnam styles that they did, William Shatner was watching it was like a confluence of awesomeness.

Elanor: Yeah they broke their $1 million time donation milestone. They’ve been doing this is the sixth year and they’ve accumulated over 1 million dollars, that they’ve had donated to Child’s Play charity. Yeah they do auctions and stuff, really great cool things, I mean now they go for thousands of dollars for like a custom N7 Mass Effect jacket that is really gorgeous. Yeah that went for like $7,000, but yeah they raise a lot of money and they have a lot of fun doing it. It’s just hilarious to watch. They only bummer is that at my current job I don’t have appropriate internet to be able to watch it all day long, like I did at my last one (laughs). It’s a nice way to start your day by getting a good morning story read to you and a bedtime story at night.

Rachel: So the closest thing I’ve had to a like a fourth wall experience in kinda slash fandom, I had like a back history before I was in fandom where I was in Detroit rave culture fandom so much fourth wall stuff there but it’s not about slash so probably not pertaining to this podcast.

Um but I did last year attend one of the Creation Cons that, the big Supernatural cons that this group called Creation Entertainment puts on and they are horrible they are not very fannish conventions. They are otherwise known by the name VanCon the one in Vancouver and they are horribly overpriced and really bad in terms of content. But, they are where a bunch of the celebrities go, you can get their autograph you can pay for meet ups and you see them do like these panels that are on youtube and stuff. I’m really close to Vancouver so I decided to go to one last year, when I was and I still am in my Supernatural phase for sure, I’m loving season 8 right now. But I was even more geeked about it then, so I went up there for that and decided to actually bid on a meeting of Misha Collins, he does, all the actors do like a meet and greet and basically it’s auctioned off. And so, he meet and greet for Jared Padalecki vs Jensen Ackles vs Misha, Jared and Jensen are in this echelon of like, it’s so expensive it’s ridiculous and Misha is really cheap. I got my Misha meet up for like $500. The way I figured it , I was like I support this guy I want to pay his salary, I assume he gets a cut of this and I like to meet him and see what it’s like. Um and it was kinda of a cool experience. It was 10 people, um we met in this hotel room, not like of a hotel room (laughs), a hotel conference room.

The thing that was just incredibly awesome about him, it was an experience where a lot of people were extremely nervous to meet him a lot of people wanted to talk about sensitive things like slash that they’re not really sure how he feels about, and Misha being the ridiculous goofball that he is does a fabulous job kind of, you know harnessing that nervous energy and making it good. A good example is, I had a friend who made like a little present for him that was basically a wine stopper that said “I found a liquor store. I drank it.” which is a reference to Castiel in the show and it’s this nice little wineplug and it has all this like or, um a winestopper, and it has all this neat art and I gave it to him and he said “thanks for the butt plug I’m gonna use this tonight” so he’s already opening the door to that kind of thing.

That’s the kind of fourth wall maybe that I’m comfortable with, because it’s like we know where we stand, we know I’m paying to meet you, there’s certain rules around those meetings like there’s rules you can’t take pictures, there’s rule about where you go. Misha broke them all, Misha actually told us he thought that the hotel was stuffy so he wanted to give us a tour of his favourite places in Vancouver so he actually ended spending twice as long with us. The meet up was supposed to be an hour and he spent two hours with us, he walked around Vancouver with us and bought us tea and coffee and just did an awesome job of making it everybody feel included in this situation yet also acknowledging kind of slash and some of the other things that are happening in fandom. But relate to people on a personal level so I have to say if you are going to break the fourth wall with somebody, Misha Collins is the person to it with. It’s an awkward situation being in a group of ten people who they all paid to meet this person, what the hell do you have to talk to them about other than the fact you read porn about them, it’s sort of weird. And some people are reading RPF not just Castiel porn and he knows about all this. He’s just a cool guy. I mean you gotta love him.

Emma: So I don’t have any cool celebrity encounter stories, I guess I got to the standing line to meet Ian McGregor once years ago, back when I was like all about Ian McGregor. But was just autograph move on nothing special. But right now the big fandom I’m in is the Sherlock fandom and one of the things that’s been really fascinating for me is being in this fandom in particular, which is so much on tumblr is to see how the fandom memes come up are noticed and acknowledged by the creators of the shows and the actors of the show and that blows my mind.

So there’s two things, a couple of things that have happened, one of the big ones which not so much slash but it’s bigger is the whole comparing Benedict Cumberbatch to otters and Martin Freeman to hedgehogs. And both of the actors know about this and they’ve made comments about it before. I think there was something going on on tumblr just the other day, Benedict was talking about how people thought Martin looked like a hedgehog because of this hair which is really kind of cute. So there’s a lot of that going around. But the other thing that happened recently that was is really funny. So there is this artist called Reapersun who is incredibly famous in the Sherlock fandom and she created this meme in the Sherlock fandom called the Red Pants, and the idea is that John Watson wears red underwear. So Reapersun just drew this picture once and John had on red underwear and it became a thing and suddenly, everybody everywhere puts red pants on John and on tumblr Mondays are Red Pants Mondays and everyone creates art of John Watson in red pants in various stated of undress and they are all sexy and smutty. It’s a very very smutty meme and everyone knows about it. So apparently a couple of weeks ago there was a talk.

Elanor: It was Mark Gatiss and friends I believe, a fundraiser.

Emma: Yeah, there was a fundraiser for a LGBT charity in England and Mark Gatiss was part of it and they had several of the actor on the show. They had Martin and they had…

Elanor: Rupert.

Emma: Rupert Graves and Lou. They had several of the actors from the show there. And I guess Mark had taken questions from all, his asked people to submit questions and he chose the ones to ask. And one of the questions that he chose to ask was “Is there any chance we’ll see John wearing red pants in series 3?” And apparently the audience was all fangirls just erupted and all of the actors on the stage looked completely confused except for Martin Freeman who said something to the effect of I know what that’s about and you guys are all fucking perverted or something like that, but he said it in a really good natured way and then he went on to joke how John would wear red pants when he’s mad and blue pants when he’s depressed. And then the fandom kind went nuts for like a minute, like OMG he knows, but there was not hide the porn, because it was just so clear that they know about it.

Rachel: Also cause you can’t hide the porn.

Emma: you can’t hide the porn

Rachel: what else could you do? I mean technically you can’t remove it.

Elanor: And in his case, I mean Amanda Abbington his long time partner, I mean she’s on Facebook, she is everywhere. And twitter. She’s pretty fabulous and she’s pretty tuned in. She has seen all sort of things, and I think a lot of the hide everything panic might have blown over when she first appeared and turned out to be really amazing and queen of the trolls.

Emma: Right.

Elanor: She is brilliant (laughts). And they have a frikking twitter for their dogs. That twitter is pretty much full of swearing (laughs) and the one dos hates the other. And so yeah they are really like in the know with all the fandom stuff. She has a couple of fanpages on facebook as does Martin that are kind of tied to each other about her being like queen of the trolls and the fangirls.

Emma: There’s bit of rumour going around that she has a tumblr.

Elanor: She said that she doesn’t but she goes on, I’m sure. Because that’s been kind of, what I’ve seen around for a while for rumours

Emma: But you don’t have to have a tumblr to see all the porn.

Elanor: Oh no exactly.

Emma: You just have to know how to click on a tag.

Elanor: Pretty much it’s just the Sherlock tag and you’re good. (laughs)

Rachel: Which is interesting, I think maybe 4 or 5 years ago when tumblr wasn’t as prominent this sort of, I mean this king of fourth wall stuff always goes on, but it’s a question of how big it is, like do the really big name actors know about it and do they acknowledge it publicly. And I think with Sherlock is a great example of wow these really famous people that are not just in a weird little BBC show now they are in movies, they are huge movie stars and they are acknowledging it and I wonder if the function of tumblr being a really open space and a space where you really can’t take it back once you put it out there like there is no hide the porn option.

Emma: Right that’s really true. And it so different with say LJ, 7 or 8 years ago in the Harry Potter fandom where people would lock their explicit fic and their explicit art and there was such a culture of not breaking the F-Lock and there’s not such thing on tumblr. I mean there’s a whole generation of fangirls that don’t even know what that would be like, that not even breaking the F-Lock thing is not part of their culture at all. It’s fascinating to me how different that thing is.

Wook: Everytime somebody get down on another fandom , like you know this kinda happened recently where somebody was part of the supernatural fandom got down on Teen Wolf like those people are bashing and saying about the actors (inaudible)

Rachel: That’s kinda funny. Pot calling the kettle black.

Wook: (inaudible) kicked out of the con how dare she get our va-j-j in on our slash time. Teen Wolf is still pretty young I’m sure who know god forbid something happens but Dylan O’Brien ended up getting a lot of his photos of him and his girlfriend leaked out there and people were so freaking positive about it. They were lie OMG they are such a cute couple and I’m like that shit would never fly in supernatural. Yeah as long as its positive I guess it ok. It’s just everytime I think about breaking the fourth wall I think of, and I processed that before, where a fan handed , it was actually Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan a fic of Merry and Pippin and their faces, just really like that horror, really made an impression on me, and then looking at the twins who play Fred and George the Phelps twins their faces when somebody mentioned twincest to them and showed them some fanfic and how horrified they were that’s what I think about whenvever the fourth wall gets broken and I have to admit that I’m not a fan of like actively seeking out creators and actors’ approval for what we are doing.

Rachel: Oh they have no legitimate case for providing an approval I mean…

Emma: Says the lawyer

Wook: It doesn’t matter that matter if they have a legitimate case a lot of people want to go out and have that approval I mean that’s what Jeff Davies is having a major issue with. And actually they run fanfic contest through Teen Wolf so they basically did legitimatize fanfic.

DJ: Yep.

Wook: And they used fanart in commercial breaks. So they are sort of legitimizing the fan creations.

Rachel: I don’t know if that’s legitimizing so much as its monetizing it. And this is the issue, like, so I’ve been to a few cons this year actually a shit load of cons and there’s always been a fourth wall panel this year which has really interested me to hear it discussed across all these spectrums and we always get to this point where its lie what do we do next what do we want. And I think I don’t think the goal should be getting approval or legalization, um, I think a lot of savvy media company are starting to realize they can monetize fanworks and I think the goal should be to realize to have our creativity unbridled and to when we put in a lot of work that somebody professionally would get paid for to get a cut of it as opposed to being just so godamn thankful that they’ve approved of it. But I’m kind of opinionated in this cause I am an IP lawyer, I recognize that fanworks are, they are intellectual property they are creative, they are not sanctioned, we want them to be sanctioned but they don’t necessarily need to be under fair use and a lot of companies are figuring out ways to monetize fanworks and not necessarily always giving back what they could. I guess I think fans should be a little bit more aggressive and not seek, the idea that fandom needs to be legitimized is just offensive to me.

Emma: No I totally, I mean I agree with you in that, I think I want them to be separate. I have zero interest in anything I write within a fandom being read or acknowledged by anyone who is associated with the canon, like with the creators of the show or the book, like I don’t want there to be any connection. I want them to continue to pretend that I don’t exist and that’s fine with me.

Rachel: My position is, you own that IP, you own your publicity image as a fan author and you can choose to make that, like you have a control level that not all fans realize they have. Contact the OTW if you have any questions about this, sidenote to the DMCA discussion going on. But fans have rights, they create valuable property, you can choose to promote that yourself, you can choose to do that completely non commercially and under the radar or you can choose to legitimize it and monetize it but make sure you are getting paid, because you are doing work, you are doing their advertising work.

Emma: Oh that’s interesting.

DJ: Well I’ve been trying to say for a while now, I’m not a big fan of breaking the fourth wall at all when it comes to actual celebrity/actors. Anything like that is not, when I think of a fourth wall I tend to think of them pandering to me bur that’s fine you can do that and you can go back to examples, you know in film like Rocky Horror or Ferris Bueller they are looking at me in the camera and they are talking to me right? That kind of fourth wall, like I’ve never deliberately gone of my way to talk to anyone who I’m a fan of their show for or in their fandom I avoid them actually if I can cause I don’t like knowing these people and like Emma says I don’t like them knowing what I do with their characters on the side. So that kind of fourth wall to me is what I avoid in life. But I sure do like the pandering that they do for me and generally the fourth wall that I enjoy are the shows like The French Mistake for Supernatural, that’s a great fourth wall episode I love that.

Rachel: I agree

DJ: And there are so many out there, like I said Rocky Horror Picture Show is probably the first one that I can think of that’s deliberately pandering to the audience and look what happened. Even Misha Collins no matter how nice he is, cause the dude is, he’s just a dude, he’s an actor I don’t really care.

Rachel: But I like that he knows he’s just a dude.

DJ: That’s true, yeah. And he does, like, he’s not pandering and then running away from you that’s for sure. He owns it. He’s like, yeah you love me, you love Cas and I’m here you can go on ahead and touch the jacket.

Rachel: Yeah it’s funny, I was listening to Winchester Radio which is some Supernatural podcast, they had Misha on the other day and it’s was funny cause he was talking about what a shitty actor he is. So I mean he owns it. He’s so honest.

DJ: He totally owns it, that’s great and you know David Hewlett is like that from Stargate Atlantis, he tweeters with his fans all the time. And they ask all kind of question as though he is still Dr. Rodney McKay from Stargate. He totally panders to them too. He even pimped the After Elton slash poll that was shipping with Sheppard. He pimped it on his twitter.

Rachel: That’s funny.

DJ: He was like why aren’t we beating these guys. I think he was up Teen Wolf or something. I mean it was a lost cause but thanks to him they got like 10K more votes or something. I personally feel that if I were to ever approach a single celebrity, in my head I am that creepy crazy person, like why would I do that. I don’t know why I just don’t like doing it.

Emma: I think something to do with not wanting to be the creepy fan, I kind of for me it’s the other way around my reluctance to do the celebrity encounter. This is going to sound really horrible, is I’m afraid I’m going to be disappointed by them.

Rachel: This is way, I’ve never met Alan Rickman nor do I try to meet Alan Rickman. I know I’m going to be disappointed.

Emma: Because they play all these amazing interesting characters but you know that they are not that interesting in real life and it’s not like I expect Alan Rickman to have magical powers it’s not that. For me, the example that I like to give is, a certain actress who is in a certain TV show about high school kids who sing, who I have been a huge fan of for years and years since I saw her on some Broadway productions and I just thought she was amazing, I watched the show because of her. So I was a huge fan, loved her, loved her, and then I started following her on twitter and the shit that she tweets about , it like OMG I’m going to beach it’s gonna be so awesome, and that’s like what she tweets about and it was just so disappointing. Then I kind of thought, this is going to sound really elitist and horrible, you know she didn’t go to college, she’s probably spent her whole life working on her acting career, she hasn’t travelled a lot, she hasn’t done like any of the things that I look for in people I liket o hang out with. So we have nothing in common anyway, it wasn’t like I thought we’d be friends, it wasn’t like that…

Rachel:Let me share a short story about the same situation with me. I mentioned I was in techno fandom prior to joining real fandom. I was a huge fan of this guy Richie Hawtin, aka DJ Plasticman, like he’s really famous if you listen to techno, you are a fan of him. And I hired him to do, I did this sneaky breaking the fourth wall thing, where I hired him to do this art show at the University of Michigan and paid him a bunch of university money to do it. Like he’s an awesome guy, he has a lot of interesting, he makes great music, but I had this idea in my mind who Richie Hawtin is, all these thing that he does, and I’m like 18 and hes interesting if I can just have dinner with him I can, I’m gonna learn all this shit from him. Yeah I had a few meetings with him, I actually stayed at his house in Berlin, and like he disappointed me. So the fantasy sometimes a little bit better than the reality and I like Misha’s ability to continue playing the role even when he is in that situation and to keep the fantasy going.

DJ: I don’t want you to tarnish the image of my hero. My heroes stay heroes and I don’t go to conventions where the actors are going to be, because I don’t care, I don’t want to know. In fact I try to avoid really even hearing about what they are doing on the side or if I hear that they are divorcing their wife of there is some kind of scandal or whatever. I ignore it all cause I don’t want to know. Like I like the character that you did and that’s good and your private life, is your private life, like your crazy Tom Crusiness is your crazy Tom Crusiness. I like Mission Impossible so there, blah! You know what I mean, don’t want to go there.

Emma: Ok and that is the mailbag segment for episode 37, if you have a comment for us or a question or if you would just like to add your own 2 cents on anything you’ve heard us talk about on this episode. There are lots of way that you can do that, you can leave a comment on the post show post on Livejournal, or you can leave a comment on the post show post on our website that’s slashcast. org or can leave us an ask on tumblr or you can reblog our tumblr post and put your comment there. You can email us on islashdoyou@ gmail.com, you can contact us via twitter, ect there’s lots of ways to do it. So please, don’t be shy, please let us know what you like and what you don’t like about our podcast. We’d love to hear from you. And that’s it for this episode. Thanks everybody!

Transcribed by imifos

Episode 38: Mailbag Transcript

2013-01-19T12:40:17Z

Mailbag Transcript for Episode 38
Hosts: wook77, emmagrant01, elanorofcastile, akemi42

Emma: Welcome to the mailbag segment for episode 38. This is emmagrant01 and I’m here with Rachel and Elenorofcastile and Wook and we are going to talk about the comment we got on the previous episode and then we are going to talk a little bit about The Hobbit which is sort of the big thing everyone is talking about in fandom right now. So first of all we got a comment on our last episode which was the Breaking the Fourth Wall episode from trinity_clare she says “Did anybody talk about bandom? Because the time Vicky-T commented on a pornfic about herself is my favorite fourth wall moment of all time.” And I don’t know what that’s about but I think Elanor I think, you do.

Elanor: Well you know on reading it again I did a little googling and I couldn’t find the one where she talks about it, about herself but I found a video that we’ll link in the post show post about Alex and Vicki – T talking and they have like an interview with this person or whatever and they are asked like what’s the craziest rumour you ever hear and then Alex starts talking about fanfiction and about him and one of his bandmates and some other people from other bands that I’m not super familiar with and then they talk about that yeah they read it and they know about it and stuff. But that was kind of quite interesting too but you know they’re like what’s they craziest rumour and so then they start talking about fanfic and they talked about how about how weird it was to read about yourself having sex with someone you’re friends with.

Wook: Ahh yeah I guess that would be kind of weird.

Rachel: That would be weird, I can’t relate, but I imagine that would be weird.

Emma: I have to say I really enjoyed that interview that Rachel did with the ladies from AO3 about the DMCA exemption. I wasn’t a part of that interview, but I did editing for it and it was so amazing when I was editing it I felt like I making a documentary or something. I mean it was just really such an incredible story you know. The fact…I love the idea of these 4 women, 3 of them are fangirls, who basically went up against really the entire entertainment industry and said look, we are ripping these for fair use and we need to have this good quality and made this case and then won the exemption. I mean, it’s like this crazy David and Goliath thing with the added benefit of having this whole feminist layer of these 4 women and these guys are like trying to like “oh honey you are doing it wrong” and I mean the whole thing just blew my mind. I like sent copies of like that interview, like even people IRL that I don’t necessarily want them to know about the fandom stuff I like sent people copies of just the file of the interview. I’m like you have to listen to this, this is amazing.

Rachel: Rebecca and Tish are just pretty amazing in general. I feel so honored to have done the interview and then also to be able to work with them in OTW, because they are just like rockstars in so many ways. And Francesca too she wasn’t part of the interview but she’s been on Slashcast before and she’s been an awesome force and then (inaudible name) is BFF attorney. So follow these people’s blogs they rock.

Emma: Ok so now we are going to talk about the Hobbit so if for some reason, you are listening to this podcast, if you haven’t seen it yet you might just want to end the podcast and come back to it after you’ve seen it because there’s going to be spoilers probably. First of all reactions.

Elanor: - Thranduil you sassy-ass top your elk.

Emma: Oh my god the elk!

Wook: I actually laughed out loud in the theater and this uber–nerd dad looked at me like he wanted to elbow me in the face. I laughed so had at his stupid ass crown. I was like WTF is on his head!

Elanor: And Lee Pace’s eyebrows, I mean come on!

Wook: Hey he (inaudible) harder than Emma Watson ever did!

Elanor: It’s true. He starred in two big franchise movies this year. Him and his eyebrows. Good on him. Cause he was in the twilight movies. I’m sure he had more fun in this than on that.

Elanor: Oh wow. I have to say, I went, I mean I was going to go anyway cause I love the original trilogy. But you know part of it too for me is the Martin Freeman love and he was amazing. Oh my god. I saw it again today and I was trying to think about what is it about the way that he portrays Bilbo that I love so much, I think what I came away from it with, he’s almost childlike in so many way there’s this sense of wonder and amazement and innocence about the world. And all these scenes you know where he’s like terrified, and you know starting death he doesn’t ever really look, I mean there’s not any sort of overdramatized horror or anything on his face. He’s always just got this kind of like dear in the headlights look or something but it really worked. I really loved that.

Wook: I love the scene, I mean it was in all the trailers and stuff too but, where he’s talking to Sméagol and Sméagol is like if the Bagginses loses we eat them whole and he’s like Oh OK that sounds fair. That scene was awesome.

Emma: Yeah that was great!

Elanor: And that was the first one that they filmed together. They did that scene and he was just started to learn the character and everything. And yet it felt so consistent with everything else, cause you know they always shoot out of order and everything. It was really interesting to see, to know that, that’s how he figured out the character through working with that.

Wook: Well I’ll probably be snotty about it, and I mean it in a funny sort of way. Really how much did he have to learn about this character because he’s every character that Martin Freeman has ever played.

Elanor: It’s true.

Wook: It’s like, oh the confused traveller. Oh wait what was this movie called again? Oh the Hobbit oh I’m sorry I thought it was Hitchhiker’s Guide. Oh I’m sorry. It was like Martin Freeman plays every character Martin Freeman ever played in a way.

Elanor: Yeah, cause he gets put in the everyman sort of role a lot

Wook: And he does a great job at it!

Rachel: I have to push back on Arthur Dent and Bilbo are kind the same character cause even though they have a lot of similarities, Arthur kind of remains bumbly and confused whereas even within this first movie you see Bilbo go from the guy that’s freaking out when all the dwarves are messing up his doilies to busting out a sword and taking on this pale ork at the end. He really grows to this level, that Arthur Dent just remains a comic foil. Yeah it’s the same character but I love watching him play it again and again and again.

Elanor: Oh I definitely love watching him play this character. I just I’d like to see him branch out cause I think he could do an extremely great job doing something other this typecast role.

Emma: I mean it could be interesting to see where it goes in the next couple of films. I guess I came out of the first viewing of this film just completely in love with Martin. I mean I kind of was anyway but there was just something about the way he portrayed Biblio that just oh my Gosh. I just wanted to picked him up and hug him and squish him. I think part it of was just that he was so little compared with everyone else. He’s little anyway. He’s shorter than me, he’s like a little guy. There’s just something about him, just so cute and squishable. Oh man, I just loved him.

Wook: See and I came out of the movie with the same feelings about Richard Armitage. I love him anyway.

Rachel: He was great!

Wook: Thorin Oikenshield, alright here comes major spoilers, when he’s marching out of the fucking burning ass tree and he’s like I’m gonna fuck your shit up. I was like oh my god I love him.

Emma: It’s like I’m not falling on my death on this tree. I’m going on my death like a hero. Oh my god

Wook: I swooned. I actually swooned. I had to put my hand over my heart and it just was racing. My sister who was watching it with me elbowed me and was like can you please breathe? That scene. Oh my god. I love Richard Armitage so much. You can have Martin Freeman I’ll take Richard Armitage, I don’t who the other two would like.

Elanor: I’d like Aiden Turner please! It was so adorable, so the second showing I came out of it and this group of like, I want to say they were high school girls, they stayed through the credits to make sure and get Aiden Turner’s name. And they wrote it down and they were ok and it is A-I-D-E-N, ok we’ve got it. And I’m like oh look at you, you’re adorable. But his smile, oh I had the same thing.

Wook: And Dean O’Gorman, oh my god. I’m gonna weep ugly tears in movie 3, I’m quite certain. But Fili, Kili and Thorin have always been my favourites so I knew kinda coming out of it that I’d love them.

Elanor: And see and I had totally forgotten that. Because it’s been so long since I’ve read the book. So I was like Oh god!

Wook: See I never read the book. Does this make me a bad fangirl? I hate Tolkien’s writing.

Emma: Oh god me too. I can’t read him.

Wook: When he took 80 bazillion pages to describe leading into the mines of Moria I actually just calmly closed the book and threw it against the wall. I went through college classes cliff notes version of the Hobbit. I never actually read it. I cheated my way through that exam. I still fell in love with the whole concept of the maternal uncle. The scene with the giant things in the mountains. (inaudible). Giant rock guys and they get separated by the knees you should see me I’m actually gesturing and making the scene with my hands BTW. And Fili and Kili they look at each other and they’re like we haven’t been separated ever what are we going to do now? I loved it, loved it so much.

Elanor: I know gingerhaze has been doing some really awesome comics on tumblr about the Hobbit and Oh my god she just did this one recently which was, and I’m going to link it, that they’re on two different rocks and My Heart will go on is playing in the background. And it’s just beautiful. But I will say I did go into the movie tempered by the fact that it was rated 65% on rotten tomatoes, but I came out of it totally loving it so. But maybe people were, I don’t know, expecting something else but I’m like, umm it hit all my buttons so… Especially Aiden Turner, cutie!

Emma: You know actually I know a lot about that because my husband and I read a lot of those reviews and I thought. Oh man I don’t know what’s going to happen I really want to like this. And we came out of the theater and we kind of looked at each other and he said I loved that and I said oh my god I did too. And I went back and read some of those reviews and realized that I disagreed with a lot of them, but I think the reason I disagree with a lot of them, like for example a lot of the bad reviews talked about the fact that it was too long and they worked in too much stuff and it was too different from the book – I haven’t read the book- I tried like Wook and didn’t get very far cause I hated the writing but one of the things that I realized was, you know one of the thing they’ve done is they’ve pulled in all this extra information from other sources and that as a fan, that’s what I want. That’s why I read fanfiction because I don’t want the story to end. If it’s all bloated and goes on forever and I want all the deleted scenes, I want all of it. I want more. And so that worked for me, and that worked for him not because he’s like me in that respect but he loves epics he loves these long journeys that really test characters. It worked for both of us for different reasons. But the thing that most of the reviewers were picking up and saying is bad about it is exactly the thing that I loved.

Elanor: Yeah well the interesting thing too is that even though by all the reviewers and stuff it’s 65%, the audience rating is 81% so you know it’s totally like fine. And actually I’m that girl I read all of the appendixes of The Return of the King and so I recognized some of the things they pulled in. Granted I haven’t read the Unfinished Tales I know they also pulled stuff from. Knowing that, knowing that they expanded the world around so it’s not just a kid’s movie, to be able to make a richer world and everything and show that there all these machinations to really tie it to the Lord of the Rings trilogy made me happy. There’s a super awesome web comic called Sheldon that they talked about that in their post, well today is of when we are recording but the 17th. So that was really hilarious with the comparison between viewer, a person who is not familiar with it and a person who is a Tolkian person.

Wook: Well I wouldn’t say a Tolkian person, but a fan of the world itself, because I’m definitely not the ultimate Tolkian person, but a fan. I love the Lord of the Rings movies so much and then have this one – I loved it. And I have to agree with the Sheldon comic and we’ll link it in the port show post, but it basically says they are reading the phonebook, that’s fantastic! And I was like yeah, I would totally be ok if it was the phonebook. Especially if they were singing it. Because Richard Armitage’s singing, I know I keep coming back to him, but his singing in that, holy god!

Emma: When I came out of the theater the first time, there was some guy in the audience the was singing that song he was making up the words because he didn’t know them but he had the tuning exactly right and them everyone else started singing along so the was this procession coming out of the theater doing that (sings). It was amazing.

Wook: That’s awesome. See I had a bunch of teeny little kids and like really really old people cause I went 9.15 in the morning on a Saturday when you know everybody like my age and younger had been drinking and they are not going to be out in the movies at that time. Plus it was cold and rainy and gross and that means nobody leaves their house ever! So it was just the hardcore people. So people actually started cheering and stuff but during that singing it was fantastic.

Elanor: Yeah my first viewing, this was the first time since I was in college that I was in a theater full of college kids so it was so weird. But yeah everyone cheered and clapped and laughed. It was like so great having a really involved audience.

Wook: And then at the end, where they get dropped off by the eagles. I was like ok A – really the eagles couldn’t have dropped them off a couple of miles down the road they had to drop them off at some rock in the middle of nowhere they have to climb down. Oh wait Thorin is hugging him great, I’m glad the eagles dropped them there.

Emma: There was a cartoon or something on tumblr that was talking about that too. Where they have the group of them standing on top of the rock and Bilbo is looking up and the next time he’s looking up at Gandalf and he looks back out and says couldn’t the eagles have drooped us off a little closer. It was really cute.

Wook: So who’s exited to see legolas in the next movie?

Elanor: And some Cumberbatch dragon action.

Rachel: I’m more excited about that. I thought, I mean he was in the credits for this movie so I was confused cause I didn’t hear him talk.

Emma: I think probably part of it was The Necromancer appearance.

Elanor: Yeah he was in for the Necromancer. Cause the Necromancer did sort of make some sort of sounds.

Rachel: He made some noises.

Elanor: It was hard to tell it was him.

Emma: That really true when that shadow kind of appeared and the Necromancer, oh look it’s Benedict. And I thought it before I remembered that he was playing it. That looks familiar like I’ve started at enough pictures of this naked body that I could identify

Elanor: Yeah I recognized his shoulders I’m not gonna lie.

Wook: I had no idea it was him, so now when I drive 5 hours round trip to go see the movie tomorrow I will be looking for that.

Elanor: You’ll get a triple batch of him then.

Emma: Triplebatch!

Elanor: You get him in the trailer for Star trek, as the Necromancer and I’m just pretending that they used his breathing for the dragon.

Wook: (inaudible) 9 minutes that’s why I’m driving 5 hours to go see it.

Emma: so I read a lot of reviews that talked about different things so one of the funny things that I read, somewhere I can’t remember where it was now, this person said well at least the good thing about it being 9 hours of The Hobbit is that in the future when kids are assigned a book report on the Hobbit they’ll actually read it because it’s shorter than watching all the movies. I thought that’s probably true! It takes less effort to read the book than it takes to watch all these movies.

Elanor: Plus with all the extra stuff they’ll be stuck trying to guess which correct for the book.

Wook: Can you imagine if they release an extended edition of this in addition to the theatrical version? Like they did with the original Lord of the Rings where they added like 8 million extra hours. Can you imagine? It will be like Bilbo picks out his socks. Bilbo decides what jacket to wear when he runs out and says I’m on an adventure. Thorin brushes his hair. What-his-face checks the ax on this head in a mirror. It’ll be awesome! If it gets me more Bofur I will be very happy, because dude I did not expect to love Bofur as much as I did. I don’t know if there’s a character you guys came out and went huh I didn’t know I would love him.

Emma: I loved all of them honestly. I did. I mean I kinda went into it not knowing anything except Martin Freeman, I’m a bad fangirl in the sense that I kinda vaguely knew what was going to happen, but yeah going in I was so surprised at how much I really liked all the characters.

Wook: Can I just say one complaint about the movie?

Rachel: No you have to only say good things

Wook: Im gonna say it anyway. Where were the fucking women? Like, there was one actress with a damn line and the rest of the women that the we saw we weren’t even supposed to really see dwarven women are supposed to look exactly like dwarven men, hence why Gimli says that there’s that rumour that they pop out of the rock. And it’s like really? Where are the women? That’s my only complaint about the whole movie.

Elanor: Yeah and you know I was actually, I don’t remember where I read it, but I was reading an article about that and yeah same sort of thing.

Emma: that’s really true.

Rachel: (inaudible) Big celebrities to change the story but not others

Elanor: I think that there will be more next movie, but you know still how much of it is..

Wook: Evageline lili is going to be a made up character who is supposed to be like a conglomeration of a couple of different characters like an elven warrior lady.

Elanor: Yeah Tauriel.

Wook: So yeah Aiden Turner will be getting some of that action.

Elanor: As long as we get to see Legolas’s beautiful face. An seriously to go back to gingerhaze the reason Im excited to see him is because we get to see him with his dad and we get to see all of the gingerhaze (inaudible) Legolas and Thranduil will ever come to fruition. Oh my god I will link to that those are hilarious. Cause he’s like argh dwarves and super preppy. Oh my god I love her art sorry.

Wook: Oh man. So the other thing about the hobbit is like made me fall in love with the Lord of the Rings realm and middle earth. I immediately went home and started watching Fellowship of the Rings and I have never teared up in fellowship of the rings cause, I was like ah yeah Gandalf comes back yeah it’s sad he falls over, and this time Gimli frikking jumps on Balin’s tomb and I was like I know who that is and then like Gandalf grabs the book out of Ori’s hand and I’m like that’s Ori you bastard why don’t you say something to him you went on an journey with him. And I’m like he doesn’t even mention Ori, I actually like, probably cause I’m fake tearing now, but I was really upset I actually cried at that point and I was like that the first time I’ve ever cried at the Fellowship of the Rings.

Emma: I didn’t know that until I saw something about it, I saw the tumblr post about it. And I went Ohhh. So yeah.

Wook: It just made me more emotional watching The hobbit, putting those two together bacause then I was like wait that’s Balin oh my gosh and then everytime Gloin was on the TV I was elbowing my sister going that’s Gimli’s dad. So did you guys some out of it with any slash pairings?

Emma: I really didn’t I thought I would and I didn’t. I thought oh I’m gonna slash Biblo with somebody but no I came out of it and my reading of the way Bilbo was portrayed was very childlike so I just didn’t go there. I don’t know, nothing else really kind of happen for me. I mean it was so obvious in the first one, in the trilogy.

Rachel: I didn’t either, but I felt the same way after I came out of Avengers and then I started reading fic and look at the deep hole that I’m in. The happy place of Avengers fannishness I am in. So who know maybe I just need to crack the first fic and it will click. But I didn’t have any immediate slashy feelings no.

Elanor: I totally came out of it with Fili/Kili I don’t even care that they’re brothers, I just want them to make out.

Emma: No that’s true. That (inaudible)

Elanor: I’m totally on that.

Rachel: And hey it’s usually better when they’re brothers.

Emma: Supernatural person

Wook: Yeah I wanted to come out of it slashing Fili/Kili but I just I couldn’t maybe the next one I’ll get more of it. I just want to keep them all to myself so I’m not gonna write Mary Sue self insert. That’s what I’m gonna do.

Emma: Cause hey there were no women so you might as well.

Wook: Exactly. The sad part is I know what happens to the three favorite characters. So it’s line anybody that I would actually slash. Why, why you just know it’s gonna happen. You know. Hopefully people that are listening to this will have awesome fic recs that will sway me to a pairing or not. I'll take any slash out of this if they can get me. Especially if it involves Bofur.

Emma: I’m going to have to go look. I’m looking on AO3 now. Oh there’s a lot of Bilbo/Thorin. Oh here’s some Fili/Kili. The Hobbit 2012 tag. Oh god there’s a lot of Bilbo/Thorin I’m gonna end up reading it. But nothing really explicit yet. Oh no there’s some.Ok I’m gonna have to read that. Oh god I know what I’m doing tonight. Explicit sexual content. That’s great that’s exactly what I want. I need some hobbit porn apparently.

Wook: Bilbo Baggins and Thorin already have a ship name of Bagginshield. Oh so I lied earlier when I said I only have one complaint about the movie. My other complaint is why do I have to wait until July 2014 to get all three of these because they were that good. So, I don’t know about the rest of you guys.

Emma: What is the Schedule? Is it three Christmases in a row?

Elanor: This Christmas, nest Christmas and then July. Cause there is a shorter time between the last two I guess since they did not plan originally to have three.

Wook: Yeah I bet he knows there’s gonna be a giant revolt in his hands. Because you know that he’s gonna end movie number two on the middle of a battle or something and you’ll be like shit what happens next. And he’s like I can put up with the hate for seven months and let’s face it he ended The Fellowship of the Rings on a pretty big cliffhanger. So I don’t know that I can actually happily wait until July 2014 cause I did love this movie so much.

Emma: Well on that note Slashcast staff big thumbs up, to steal from a certain movie reviewer. We all love it.

Rachel: Slashcast approved.

Emma: Slashcast approved and we’re all gonna go look for slashy fic.

Elanor: Involving Thranduil and his Elk!

Wook: And if we find any we’ll link it to you.

Elanor: Oh you betcha.

Emma: Consider that a challenge then. Right that’s it for episode 38. So if any of our listeners want to drop us comments about your reactions to the Hobbit or your reactions to any fic you’ve seen coming out or anything else about our podcast. Suggestions, comments, criticism we love it all. You can email us at islashdoyou @ gmail.com you can leave a comment in our LJ, you can leave an Ask in our Tumblr, you can leave a comment on our website, you can tweet us. We’re everywhere so please leave a comment wherever you like. That’s it for now. Bye.

Transcribed by imifos

Episode 23: LGBT News Transcript

2013-01-10T01:46:34Z

Ep 23 LGBT Transcript
Host: wook77

Wook: This is Wook77 with this month’s LGBT News segment.

In celebratory news Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell has been repealed officially, even better nothing has happened since. Many news organisations have covered this historic time in LGBT news in the US with a variety of takes on it, from hilarious parodies of equality-foes to in-depth interviews with gay and lesbian soldiers. While some are calling for specific laws protecting LGBT folks from harassment in the military, others are hoping that this harassment falls under the unit cohesion rules that allow for prosecution for anything that affects unit morale from harassment of women, to blacks, to Filipinos. Our transcriptions and episode listings will have a variety of links of inspirational coming out stories of gay soldiers, some will make you laugh, some will make you cry, and some will just make you angry. I’m just so glad that we’ve joined our allies in allowing gay soldiers to serve openly and honestly. If you’re looking for an organisation that forwards equality Out Serve is a brilliant organisation that has done a lot to help LGBT soldiers.

In other celebratory news the NFL has added sexuality to its list of protected classes. Not that I see a lot of gay football players coming out of the closet just yet, but this is a good step forward to fostering an environment where gay men can come out of the closet and maintain a professional football career.

Bisexuality has been verified… in the animal kingdom. Although the joke is that bisexuals don’t exist, just like English majors, researchers have verified that squids can be bisexual. How cool is that?

Another piece of awesome news is that the repeal of DOMA, the Defence of Marriage Act, has its first Republican co-sponsor. This is momentous, if just because LGBT activists and allies need Republican support to get this unfair law repealed in a more timely manner. I applaud Representative Iliana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida for being willing to step up and stand up for equality. She is one of the most outspoken supporters of gay rights in the Republican Party.

In less awesome news North Carolina’s the site of a showdown for equality, with a vote heading to the public for an anti-equality amendment to the state’s constitution. I urge the folks in North Carolina to get out there and let people know that equality is important to them. The amendment goes up for a vote in May.

In more disturbing news at a recent Republican Primary Presidential Debate members of the audience booed a now openly gay member of the military. Personally I was extremely appalled by the lack of patriotism this showed, as that man is laying his life on the line for us irregardless of his sexuality. There is just something morally wrong with booing a soldier simply because he’s gay, especially when you’re supposedly the party of patriotism.

The video of the courtroom antics during the trial of Proposition 8, the marriage equality bill in California that is currently winding its way through the appeals process, has been released just in time for a play and a possible movie to be scripted out.

And proof that video gamers are awesome, as if we needed proof of that, not only will gay romance now be an option in Star Wars: The Old Republic as downloadable content – which woohoo! So excited! – but video gamers have cracked an enzyme in retrovirus diseases such as HIV/AIDS and they did in just three weeks. How freaking awesome is that? Think of what video gamers can do in the future for diseases.

And that’s our LGBT news segment for Episode 23.

Transcript by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 25: LGBT News Transcript

2013-01-09T00:23:03Z

Ep 25 LGBT News Transcript

Host: wook77

Wook: Welcome to the LGBT News segment for Slashcast Episode 25, I’m Wook77 and it was a busy month for LGBT news so I’m just going to hit a few highlights.

A ruling handed down by California’s highest court means that the sponsors behind Proposition 8 can defend the anti-equality proposition even though the government or the state of California refuse to defend it. I’m torn on this news because I’d rather see equality quickly than not, but this way at least we can get a ruling on the legality of these amendments banning marriage equality. I’m certain we’ll all be keeping our eyes on this as it winds its way to the Supreme Court.

In Russia there is currently a law being proposed that prohibits the distribution of so-called gay propaganda to minorities, with punishment ranging through fines and possible jail time. It’s a new take on the ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bills currently being proposed all over the US. I’m boggled as to why the State Department of the US is willing to take Russia to task for this, but our own federal government isn’t willing to take our own states to task for similar bills.

In a modern day witch hunt Kevin Hogan, a decorated rowing coach and English teacher with over twenty years of celebrated experience, is currently facing losing his teaching credentials and his job for appearing in gay porn many, many years ago. This isn’t the first case of a teacher losing his credentials for things he did when in college. While parents might be outraged Mr. Hogan’s students are standing up in defence of him, showing to me that the younger generations do get it, and giving me hope that homophobia might just die out.

Barney Frank is retiring from public service, though his history in Congress is mixed, the man has never lied about his sexuality and has been an outspoken for LGBT equality. I’m hopeful that somebody will step into this void.

Benetton has pissed off The Vatican by photoshopping a kiss between The Pope and Sheik al-Tayeb, and if I’ve mispronounced his name I’m very sorry. The Vatican threatened legal action, prompting Benetton to pull the ad that they allege was made to promote unhate.

Finally on World AIDS day, and whenever you suspect that you are positive, and even if you don’t suspect that you are positive, I urge you to get tested. There are plenty of places that test for free, so not having the money is no excuse.

And that’s it for Episode 25’s highlight reel of LGBT news.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 26: LGBT News Transcript

2013-01-08T19:43:09Z

Ep 26 LGBT News Transcript

Host: wook77

Wook: This is Wook77 with the LGBT new segment for this month’s Slashcast.

First up is an interesting piece of historical-political news. An author, and former Nixon aide, in his new book alleges that Nixon had a gay affair with a mobster banker. Nixon had a history of homophobic rants and terminating gay employees so I’m kind of interested to see how this plays out.

In Pakistan Shahana Abbas Shani is running for a seat on the provincial assembly of Punjab, the country’s most populous province. This is both awesome and very brave because Shahana Abbas Shani is not only transgender, but is also the president of the transgender advocacy organisation for that country.

The LGBT community has lost an important voice, John Lawrence, of Lawrence and Lawrence vs. The State of Texas has died. Lawrence vs. The State of Texas was the 2003 case that struck down the sodomy laws that criminalised LGBT sexual acts, even in the privacy of their own homes.

Coming on the heels of the full repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell a lesbian couple won the right for the first kiss when a Navy ship returned from overseas. Petty Officer 2nd Class Marissa Gaeta, purchased raffle tickets to be the first person off the ship and kiss her significant other. And surprisingly to her she won; she exchanged a kiss with her partner, Petty Officer 3rd Class Snell.

Are you in an LGBT relationship yourself? You can get married in Cancun, although it’s due to a loophole in the current law it’s still available and there are, at this time, no plans on fixing the loophole. And in fact there is discussion to completely legalise LGBT marriage in these resort towns throughout Mexico and the Caribbean.

The right wing conservative Republican field here in the US just keeps getting weirder and grosser. We’ve got Ron Paul, who not only refused to shake hands with a known gay man, but he also refused to use another gay man’s bathroom. I guess because he thought that gay cooties would transfer from the toilet seat?

Rick Santorum, hey I recommend you Google it, is surging ahead in the polls in Iowa and all because of his supposed Christian values of hate and intolerance.

Michelle Bachman continues to say that no she’s even more crazy with her hate and intolerance as she rants ineffectively and sounds completely crazy.

A Miami gay matchmaker, Paul Angelo, has recently made the argument that bottoms have low self-esteem, and it’s due to being the receptive partner. Not only do I call bullshit, but I’m quite certain that many slashers out there would as well. As any slasher-writer knows bottoming or topping doesn’t influence your self-esteem, just like being the receptive partner in a heterosexual relationship doesn’t influence a woman’s self-esteem. This guy’s a douchebag of epic douchebaggery.

The People’s National Party in Jamaica has won, coming back into power while endorsing gay rights. As Portia Simpson-Miller stated, and I quote:

“Our administration believes in protecting the human rights of all Jamaicans, no one should be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. Government should provide the protection.”

While awesomeness abounds.

Contrasting this with the news that the Puerto Rican House of Representatives are trying to remove the hate crimes protection from LGBT people in Puerto Rico. I think Puerto Rico can learn something from Jamaica here.

It’s been an up and down month but I’m going to close with some happy news, showing why I think Hillary Clinton is an amazing woman. I will be including a link to a video featuring excerpts of her speech addressing gay rights as human rights. Just listening to it made me tear up. She has a way with words and cutting to the centre of an issue, here I’ll quote again.

Gay people are born into and belong to every society of the world. Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality.

Hillary Clinton, I love you. Thank you for your leadership role in not only showing that women can be effective leaders – and rather awesome – but that gay rights are human rights.

And that’s our LGBT News segment, if you have any hints or tips for us please email them to islashdoyou at gmail dot com, or a leave a comment to the post.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 28: LGBT News Transcript

2013-01-07T17:06:48Z

Ep 28 LGBT News Transcript

Host: wook77

Wook: Welcome to the LGBT news segment for Slashcast Episode 28, I’m Wook77 and this segment is probably going to be a little more annoyed ranting than actual news.

First US political news that might make you lose your faith in the American political process. Rick Santorum continues to surge across the US, I have no idea how that’s happening, but not only do gay people have cooties as far as he’s concerned – alright well that’s a polite euphemism for what he thinks – but a separation of church and state makes him want to throw up. Personally a lack of separation of Rick Santorum and state makes me want to throw up.

Marriage Equality has suffered a few defeats across the US, New Jersey’s Governor decided to veto a law that would have granted marriage equality, while New Mexico’s Governor continues to proliferate bigotry by supporting Chris Christie’s veto. Promising to do the same.

The Million Moms, you know those idiots who wanted to boycott JC Penny’s for daring to hire Ellen, are now threatening to a boycott of Toys-R-Us for selling an Archie comic that featured a gay character, ‘cause ‘oh no!’. And then there’s always the bigots that are continuing to try to boycott the Girl Scouts for showing their support for equality. I definitely urge you to support your local Girl Scouts here in the US as much as possible. And if you didn’t get a chance to buy some cookies please do, and I’m currently swimming in Thin Mints.

Here in my home state of Arizona Paul Babeu, the recently outed Sheriff of Pinal County, is accused of threatening his ex-boyfriend with deportation after the relationship ended. Even better now he supposedly had relations with a student while he ran an extremely abusive school. Keep in mind this guy has also appeared on racist radio shows and has spoken to skinhead groups. Now that he’s been outed, however, he’s promised to work on legislation that helps LGBT citizens. Somehow I’m not buying it.

Internationally Liberia, Uganda, and Cameroon are discussing strengthening their anti-gay laws. Cameroon has gone so far as to arrest ten women suspected of being lesbians.

Oxford University is hosting a Christian Cure Conference that works to cure homosexuality through prayer therapy, ‘cause you know, that works.

But it’s not all doom and gloom and snark, India’s court system has not only come in support of a woman making decisions for her own body, but also in support of LGBT folks. The national government of India has filed briefs in support of equality for LGBT citizens of India. That, my friends, is awesome.

A judge in the US, meanwhile, struck down a key component of the Defence of Marriage Act, ruling the inability to enrol a same-sex spouse into a health care plan is unconstitutional. Of course Republicans continue to prove their fiscal responsibility by fighting against equality and blowing wads of taxpayer money.

In a very romantic moment a gay marine laid one heck of a tree climbing smooch on his boyfriend right after he returned home from a deployment. Whether it’s my own limited forays into reading the comments – and let’s face it’s probably my own limited forays into reading the comments – or whether it’s actually more widespread, the photograph has seemed to gain a lot of support and positive reactions as it’s gone viral. And I have to admit it’s one of the best kisses I’ve ever seen.

In New Hampshire a Republican has come out of marriage equality in that state, warning of a backlash at Republicans by the constituents. I’ll give you a moment to gasp in your shock and awe because, wow a Republican who gets the fact that majority of the US supports marriage equality, and that maybe small government doesn’t mean that government should intrude into your own freaking bedroom. Really? And then I will respond and say, well no shit, Sherlock! Yes there’s going to be a backlash if you take away people’s rights, did you not see what’s going on with Prop8?

I’ll leave you with a laugh in the links section, however, at the end. Twitter, in yet another show of awesomeness, recently came up with some amazing Secret Service codenames for Rick Santorum. And the ones featured in the link made me laugh, but I’m certain they missed some amazing ones so check out the hashtag #SantorumCodenames for more.

And that’s the news, if you have some hints or tips you’d like to see covered email us or leave us a comment in the main post.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 38: LGBT News Transcript

2013-01-06T20:36:17Z

Ep 38 LGBT News Transcript
Host: wook77

Wook: This is the News segment for Slashcast Episode 38, I’m Wook77 and let’s get started with a quick rundown of some of the things going on.

Fantasia Barrino, for those who don’t know she won American Idol like years ago, and she’s still clinging to that last shred of fame throughout all of her troubles which I won’t even get into right now, ranted on instagram about how people were judging her when there were much worse things out there in the world like legal weed and gay marriage. Of course when she was called on it she bitched like every other faded idiot that her words were taken out of context and misunderstood, ‘cause that shit’s just so easy to have happen, you know it only happens when you do some bigoted rants though. Huh, what a coinkydink.

A pastor in Virgina claims that stroking a horse can [starts laughing] cure homosexuality. I’m sorry, every time I read ‘stroking a horse’, it makes me giggle. While I’m certain I’ve read a fic or two with horse stroking I don’t remember it ever curing the gay out of men and women, but Pastor Bell insists that this can happen. See he’s the pastor of a cowboy church, and he claims that equine assisted psychotherapy – [giggles] so there’s an actual term for horse stroking?! – works at making gay men more masculine, but he doesn’t say how it works with the lesbians and bisexuals, and I’m kind of curious. Besides, I don’t know about you folks, but doesn’t the bestiality thing normally go the other way? You know with gay men and homosexuality leading to paedophilia and bestiality and whatever other unrelated sexual conduct they want to toss in there. So kudos to this guy for going against the grain in his bigotry and cray-cray.

Hurricane Sandy decimated the Ali Forney Center in New York City, they recently received a huge donation from Time Warner for a new media centre including brand new computers and all sorts of other things. The value of the gift is $50,000, the Ali Forney Center could still use your help, if you’re looking to start 2013 off right with a donation look towards this valuable resource for LGBT youth in New York City or one in your area. Besides, did you know some LGBT organisations qualify for something called The Working Poor Tax Credit? Okay, so it’s not available in all states and each state sets its own tax dollars, and I’m not a tax lawyer, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah but it’s something to look into because it will steer your tax dollars directively to LGBT organisations. And see there’s something called poetic justice when you live in a state as anti-gay as Arizona is and you use this Working Poor Tax Credit to steer a donation to an LGBT organisation. I might have done that.

Disney has angered right wing bigots with a spot that dared to mention that a kid had two moms, and made a film against bullying. I mean, how dare he mention that he has a non-traditional family? What a little bastard.

The Kill the Gays Bill in Uganda is still slowly moving forward, unfortunately. We’re keeping our eyes on it here, and we recommend you do the same. Desmond Tutu, though, is not impressed and has spoken against this bill and other similar bills in other countries.

And hey, speaking of Uganda, charges have been dropped against gay theatre producer David Cecil, he is now free to leave the country after spending the previous four months in a Ugandan jail. His crime? Daring to stage a gay play in that country.

Another African country, Cameroon, has upheld the conviction of a man for gay texting. [mockingly] Oh the humanity and evil of gay texting! [end mocking] But I guess you’ll never guess who is behind their anti-gay bills too? Oh, wait you didn’t even need to guess. It’s the same American Christian fundamentalists as those behind the Ugandan bills.

Bank of America settled an anti-gay discrimination case brought against it by HUD, the Housing and Urban Development Department in a case involving Bank of America denying a mortgage to a lesbian couple for being lesbians. Oh, gross.

Matt Damon is playing Scott Thorson, the long-time lover of Liberace, who is being played by Michael Douglas in an upcoming film for HBO. Behind the Candelabra supposedly features quite a few gay love scenes in it, including one that’s a make out by the pool. Since it is made for HBO some of us are going to be stuck going alternate routes to view it, but the information I’ve seen so far seems to say it’s a good film.

Matt Damon also addressed the rumours of his supposed gay love with Ben Affleck and how he’s never responded previously. He went the George Clooney route of awesomeness and said it was because he didn’t want to offend his gay friends by implying that a gay rumour was offensive.

The White House was the scene for a same-sex marriage proposal that was just beautifully done. I’m sure you guys have all seen it but I thought it was really cool.

Ten years later the Philadelphia District Attorney’s office is still giving conflicting information in the death of Nizah Morris a transgender woman who was last seen alive in 2002 in the presence of police during a courtesy ride due to public drunkenness. This 47-year-old transgender black woman was dropped off in the middle of the street in the middle of nowhere and left to die alone. Now officials are claiming there are no 911 tapes, even though the family has over 101 calls. Eyewitness reports have been ignored while the police officers involved in the courtesy ride have their stories multiple times. Perhaps we could someday, maybe, live in a world where a transgender person doesn’t have to fear for violence for being who they are.

And hey, speaking of good news to end the news segment. If you’re looking to get married to your same-sex partner there’s a new travel locale that you just might want to take a look at. The Dutch Caribbean island of Saba offers beautiful views, a tropical locale, and supportive environment for your vows.

And that’s it for the news. If I’ve forgotten a story, if I didn’t give enough information on a story, or you want to talk about something specifically feel free to leave us a comment on our website, our livejournal, or you know our tumblr or a million and one other places that we’re all available on.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj

Episode 37: LGBT News Transcript

2013-01-05T17:51:03Z

Ep 37 LGBT Transcript
Host: wook77

Wook: Welcome to the news for Slashcast Episode 37, I’m Wook77 with the news.

As we’re all aware by now Barak Obama won the presidential election here in the United States, hopefully ensuring a strong advocate for LGBT issues. But just in case he isn’t the strong advocate we hope to have there are plenty more now in the US Congress. This year’s congress is the most diverse on record with the first openly pansexual, the first openly lesbian, and the first openly bisexual to be elected to office. It was a great election cycle for LGBT representation, though, of course we could have had even more and hopefully will in the future.

Marriage Equality is now the law of the land in all of the states that had it on the rolls for this year’s election. So woohoo! Way to win. Equality trumps bigotry and we continue to make great strides.

Turns out that the next state addressing marriage equality might be my very own batshit insane state of Arizona. Let’s hope so because the one man, one woman law was defeated the first time around, and barely won the second time. I’m cautiously optimistic that Arizona might start redeeming itself away from all the crazy racist crap that’s been coming out of it. Okay I’m mostly pessimistic, but there’s a little tiny bit of optimism in there.

Naked protestors invaded John Boehner’s office. They were protesting the proposed cuts to the HIV/AIDS testing in the fiscal cliff negotiations. I personally think it was very effective, but John Boehner was probably a little bit upset about it.

November 27th marks the 34th anniversary of the death Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone. There are now commemorative stamps featuring Harvey Milk available through the US post office, so you might want to go and check those out.

Uganda is reconsidering passing that ‘Kill the Gays Bill’, with support from Tony Perkins, the head of The Family Research Council, but he wants you to know that he is not a bigot. Not at all. Noo. And said he thinks this is just a mission from God. To which I say bullshit, but whatever you murder-advocating fucker. You and Rick Warren can go fuck each other.

Speaking of Rick Warren, he claims he’s not a homophobe, and he regrets supporting the bigotry side of the Prop-8 battle in California, but he does think that the gay is [adopts accent] very harmful to today’s youth and very bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, and he can explain exactly why it’s bad to you if you would just give him a couple of minutes and not call him crazy homophobe.

There’s a landmark winding its way through the court system challenging gay conversion therapy, that we’ll be keeping our eyes on. Along with this law suit there’s also a Californian representative that is taking on gay conversion of people under 18. The law’s entitled SHOK, which is the acronym standing for Stop Hurting Our Kids, and looks to stop gay conversion therapy across the US eventually.

As we go into the holiday season please remember that the Salvation Army has a very long history of anti-LGBT bigotry as you pass by the bell ringers. Don’t take it out on the bell ringers please, but remember that if you drop change in that iconic red bucket you’re helping to support anti-LGBT bigotry that has including threating to close soup kitchens in the state of New York, because God forbid they offer equality in, you know, their hiring practices or something. And they’ve also allowed a transgender woman to die just outside of their homeless shelter because she was transgender. Instead why not save up your change and drop it off at your local Food Pantry? Get your friends and family in on the action and make a larger difference directly to your community instead of supporting an anti-LGBT initiative. There are plenty of LGBT specific organisations in most cities, as well, that could use your change. Think before you donate this holiday season and be part of the change that you’d like to see. When in doubt you can always check the Human Rights Campaign equality index to find out the best places to shop as well. We’ll have that index linked in the post.

And that’s it for the news, as always if I’ve missed something you want to talk about please feel free to link us whether it’s on twitter, tumblr, LJ or our website.

Transcribed by: angelbabe_cj