A Hunger Games Discussion/Meta Community

Heteronormativity and sexuality in Panem, or: The Curious Case of Finnick Odair

regendy — Wed, 04 May 2011 22:45:33 GMT

I think that the Hunger Games series does a good job when it comes to issues of gender. (Whether this is true or not is a post for another day.) And that makes it all the more disappointing that I think they seriously drop the ball when it comes to sexuality.

Erasure of queerness is nothing new in fiction. In countless series you could reasonably assume, going strictly by the text and authorial confirmation, that everyone in that story’s universe is 100% heterosexual—that there’s not even a word for being otherwise, because there isn’t an otherwise. This is unfortunately so prevalent that even the slightest textual hint of queerness as an accepted part of a story is cause for great excitement.

Which is why the mentions of Finnick’s admirers and lovers in Catching Fire jumped out at me. They are consistently described in gender-neutral terms: “The citizens of the Capitol have been drooling over him ever since.” “About a hundred people faint because they’re sure [the poem] means them.” The neutrality is so conspicuous (“women” could easily have replaced “people”) that I felt it had to be intentional.

“Hooray!” I thought. “A positive, interesting character who is canonically bisexual!” Bordering on the Anything That Moves/Depraved Bisexual tropes, but you take what you can get.

But then in Mockingjay we learn that Finnick wasn’t sleeping around for fun or even using his sexuality as a weapon, but was forced into prostitution. And aside from being an upsetting, disturbing facet of the exploitation to which the victors were subjected, it’s also incredibly problematic. Finnick’s gender-neutral trysts are the only textual suggestions of queerness in the entire trilogy. There is no other mention of a same-gender romance whatsoever.

There are certainly characters who can be interpreted as queer (after all, being in a relationship with the opposite gender =/= being heterosexual), and readers should feel free to do so. But that doesn’t change the face that officially, queerness surfaces only in conjunction with the Capitol. Moreover, it is associated with sex slavery (and pedophilia, given Finnick’s age when he won the Games). There is no happy same-gender relationship to balance it out.

This frustrates me, because how easy would it have been to at least throw in an offhand mention of, say, a District 13 soldier and his husband? Or for Gale to have a jealous response to Madge the way he does with Peeta, Darius, and Finnick? The Districts themselves are incredibly heteronormative, with vast importance given to marriage and having children. Given the short life expectancies and apparent lack of contraceptives, the focus on forming family units makes logical sense. But since these marriages we hear about are always between people of the opposite gender… well, the contrast between the wholesome family-oriented Districts vs. the oppressive debauching Capitol rubs me the wrong way.

So, what are your thoughts? Is this a case of erasure, Unfortunate Implications, both, or neither? How does it compare to experiences you've had with other series?

Let's talk... energy sources?

regendy — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 23:41:14 GMT

Panem's technological achievements include invisible forcefields, city-wide booby traps, disturbingly extensive camera networks, and the ability to change a landscape with the push of a button, among other things. So with all of this, I've been wondering...

Why the heck do they still need COAL?

It's just so odd to me that they'd rely solely on a nonrenewable, polluting energy source that's not super-easy to obtain, especially given how small District 12's working population is. The Capitol's way of life depends so much on electricity that it alone seems like it'd require more energy than the coal would provide. Are there energy producers elsewhere we don't know about? (I assume 13 has a reactor somewhere, but that wouldn't help places elsewhere.) Does coal only power the districts, while the Capitol itself has oil, solar panels, etc.? Is a fuel shortage partly why the districts don't have anywhere near the facilities that the Capitol does? Do they not believe in global warming even though the ice caps already melted? What's the deal?

May the odds be ever in your favour!

sharpest_rose — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 04:10:35 GMT

Come over to my journal for the chance to win free books! Woo! :D

IRL Jabberjays

littledarkvoice — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:00:46 GMT

Hello not-dead-just-sleeping comm! I'm home with a fever, so I was browsing the news on Current and found this AP article about tiny spy planes made to look like birds or insects.

My first thought: IRL Jabberjays? Scary stuff.

So, I ask, in what other ways might The Hunger Games be predicting the future?

iceshade — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:47:15 GMT

Over the course of all three Hunger Games books we never find out what Districts 5, 6 and 9 industries are. I once read somewhere that suggested that District 6's was medicine as their tributes in Catching Fire are morphling addicts, and I'm a fan of that theory. You could say oh it's because they're victors and special, yet Katniss wasn't able to easily get morphling for her mother (based on her surprised reaction to Madge bringing some over). I DON'T KNOW. I also think that one of the District's industries may have been oil.

So, the point of the post is, what do you think were the industries of Districts 5, 6 and 9?

Also, I submit for your ~~appreciation~~ approval, my dream casting of Haymitch:

Jeffery Dean Morgan

and with added scruff:

ADDED BONUS, because the roles JDM plays tend to always die, no one will be expecting Haymitch to live to the end!

madri — Sat, 08 Jan 2011 02:05:38 GMT

Hello all, I bring an interview with Gary Ross, director of the upcoming film version.

OH MY GOD. NOT ONE MENTION OF TWILIGHT OR LOVE TRIANGLES. YOU COULD KNOCK ME OVER WITH A FEATHER.

So: movies are going to aim for a PG-13 rating. Discuss.

Also! For the first time I saw a Katniss suggestion from someone not from this community (I don't think) that I didn't hate! Hailee Steinfeld, 14-year-old actress currently receiving raves for her role in True Grit with Jeff Bridges.

What do you guys think? Personally I kind of love her.

madri — Thu, 09 Dec 2010 23:30:17 GMT

I'm re-reading the first book and two things are bugging me about the feast.

How did Clove know Rue and Katniss teamed up? It seems unlikely she or Cato could have seen them together without Rue or Katniss knowing or Clove/Cato attacking them, and the couple of times they did run into her early on she was completely alone. It's possible Clove was guessing, but is she really a master of psychology? Maybe before he died Marvel the genius figured it out! My only guess is that they figured Katniss was the one to blow up their supplies and, as she knew they would realize, that she had an accomplice, and since Rue died shortly thereafter... 2 + 2 = 5?
Why didn't Katniss run as soon as Clove was lifted away? I know she was injured and surprised, but she has reflexes, she knows she's in a life-or-death situation, and she already has what she needs (the medicine). What's more imporant: figuring out why she's getting a chance to flee, or saving her own skin (and Peeta's) when the opportunity presents itself? This has always bugged me. It just smacks of very bad survival instincts.

Obviously both of these pieces of information were important to the scene (if not #1, Thresh wouldn't have let her go; if not #2, she wouldn't have known Thresh was letting her go and why). But logically... I don't know, it seems like a stretch.

All though I did like the detail of Thresh calling Katniss "Fire Girl." For some reason it's only now occurring to me that of course he doesn't know her name, that's his personal nickname for her the way Katniss uses "Foxface" for ~~Jenna Foxface~~ the girl from 5. I'm slow~

let's all sigh together

madri — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 04:03:37 GMT

EW is doing their 2010 Entertainers of the Year issue, and... you know, I think I'm going to start a drinking game*. Also, SCollins talks a little about the movie--as usual, no real insight is offered, but I am glad to hear they're involving her in the process so much. (Click for a larger version)

*Actually, I am thinking of writing them a letter: "Oh my god, seriously, could you please do one article on THG that DOES NOT MENTION TWILIGHT would it honestly be that hard??" It's gone from a little exasperating/annoying to downright insulting. Not all heroines are the same person.

madri — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 21:46:57 GMT

Entertainment Weekly has done another write-up on the series, or, as I like to call it, "Let's keep invoking Twilight, because that never gets old!!!"

Fonseca... actually is not a bad choice, except she's 23, which is older than I'd personally like. Still, I prefer her to the other mainstream suggestions, for being half Portuguese and not a total featherweight.

On the downside: so apparently Collins isn't writing the script after all? Bummer :(

Also, I hate sounding like one of those "it's popular therefore it sucks" people but seeing Katniss described as "the new tween It Girl" breaks my heart a little.

The Movie: bound to be even more depressing than Mockingjay

madri — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 22:14:27 GMT

A friend of mine linked this article to me, and apparently it is My Job to bring in the movie cynicism around here, so here you go: Casting Katniss: Is Hollywood Whitewashing The Hunger Games?

I don't think it's possible to have enough backlash to stop them from filling all the major roles with Anglos. Even The Last Airbender, based on a series explicitly set in an Asian fantasy world, did exactly that (except the brown-skinned menace on the bad side, so hey, maybe they'll get a black guy to play Snow). Though I'm gonna lay it on the table right now and say I don't care what color eyes the actress they get for Katniss has. So there you go, Hollywood. Feel free to cast a brown-eyed actress. You have my okay. That should make things easier for you.

I find it interesting that they mention a lot of the European editions of the book showcase a very white model for Katniss on the cover, since the US is usually the place that takes all the crap for being full of racists.

We're way overdue for one of these!

regendy — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:51:20 GMT

O HAI, welcome to our second-ever

LULZ FRIDAY

What is Lulz Friday, you ask? It is whatever you want it to be! With one simple rule:

No serious business allowed. :|

Mostly we like to keep it classy and intellectual here in panemforthought. Lulz Friday posts, however, are purely for... well, the lulz. And spawning new amazing comm tags. So bust out your macros, your gifs, your YouTube links, your CAPSLOCK, and whatever else you'd like to share with the rest of the internets. A

To anyone who has not yet read Mockingjay: there will likely be spoilers in the comments, so be forewarned.

GO GO GO!

Hunger Games Anonymous Fic Request!!

rosegilmore — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:50:50 GMT

Hunger Games Anonymous fic promt pt 1

Its a TON of fun, there are a lot of prompts floating around (really good ones too), and a handful that have been fulfilled. Go, enjoy, request, and pimp this thing out!! :)

madri — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 09:11:43 GMT

So apparently Entertainment Weekly did an online poll about movie casting and they published the results in this week's issue. Warning: these should come as no surprise to anyone.

...well, okay, I would totally watch KChen as Effie. She just wants to be pop-uuu-lar.

Who else has just recently finished Mockingjay?

captaintish — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 05:03:05 GMT

Well, I see no one's posted for the past few days.

So, I thought I'd put this out there for anyone who (like me) didn't read the book in the first 24 hours. :)

So, here are some of my thoughts.

I found it a bit surprising in a couple of respects.

One -- this was definitely the most horrifying of the bunch. The guy getting caught up in that net, the parachutes bombing the children. The snake-rat creatures in the tunnels. And so many characters died! Cinna -- I couldn't believe he was really dead. Finnick. PRIM! I thought her character was just starting to get a bit fleshed out and then WHAM.

The other thing I found surprising was that Katniss got any kind of happy ending. I thought the ending was nice and hopeful -- Katniss will obviously never be the same, and will never totally recover from everything she went through. A severe rift was formed in her relationship with Gale. But she has a chance to be happy with Peeta and their children. A chance to have a simple, peaceful life. I like that.

A couple of things I'm still a little unclear on -- was Katniss really agreeing to a new round of Hunger Games?? Really? And, a question I've had since the first book -- why was Madge so insistent that Katniss take the Mockingjay pin into the arena waaay back in the first book? She was kind of pushy about it -- did she somehow know about a revolution in the making even then? Did the mockingjay have some meaning already?

Excellent trilogy. I'm going to have to go back and reread the entire thing.

Let's Talk T-Shirts

paixe — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:38:18 GMT

So I have to host the Mockingjay party at my Borders on Saturday, right? So I was thinking, "I can't just wear boring work clothes, I need an awesome shirt so everyone will ~~be jealous~~ know I'm in charge!" Except the only shirt Borders is carrying (which, by the way, why do we even HAVE shirts for sale? I don't know.) is a black one with the logo in gold. Cool, but.. Expected? And then I remembered seeing this shirt online, one of those Zazzle or Cafepress shirts, that says "Cinna told me to wear this shirt." And I thought that was really clever. I LOVE wearing in-jokes on my chest.

Here's the link to that one. Popped right up in a Google search: http://www.zazzle.com/cinna_told_me_to_tshirt-235423363519264673

Except $35 is a steep price.

I like this one, too: http://www.zazzle.com/peeta_hunger_games_t_shirt-235931521521659795 Peeta can frost my cake anytime. LOL.

Also: http://www.zazzle.com/haymitchs_shirt-235696001743776200 Yeah Haymitch!

In the end, I'm almost certainly not going to shell out actual money to own these shirts, but it got me thinking. I appreciate all your humor and witty insights far more than that of these shirtmakers, who apparently think 'Team Gale/Peeta' is the hippest thing ever. SO, if you were designing a Hunger Games t-shirt.. What would you put on it?

The Mockingjay

angerfish — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:20:40 GMT

Initial reaction post: Go.

WARNING: COMMENTS WILL DEFINITELY HAVE SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING EVER AT ALL PROBABLY

Happy Mockingjay Day!

captaintish — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:01:28 GMT

For those of you with Borders Rewards -- check your email, today I got a coupon for 50% off Mockingjay, which makes it about $9. :D

Happy reading!!

Wild Mass Guessing!

regendy — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:23:04 GMT

Wild Mass Guessing (warning: link goes to TV Tropes, notorious for siphoning time) is any theory or fanon tidbit that explains something unaddressed in the canon text. They can range from the fully plausible (ex: Peeta will die in Mockingjay) to the utterly ~~amazing~~ ridiculous (ex: Peeta is a fobwatched Time Lord).

Since Mockingjay comes out tomorrow (at least in the US--anybody know the release dates for elsewhere?) and a lot of questions will hopefully be answered, this is the last chance for no-holds-barred speculation. Logical, crazy, or otherwise, post them all here!

Reminder: If you've read spoilers, or are one of the lucky souls who have obtained an advance copy of the book, please refrain from including any canon info from Mockingjay in your comments.

well, if it's a free-for-all

madri — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 02:10:53 GMT

BY THE WAY when we were talking about a Villain Episode for the Careers before I thought about it and then this is what happened instead. Strictly for the lulz, but I am still probably going to hell. ~~THE FISH MADE ME DO IT~~

Does She Not Look Like Johanna Mason? (Dreamcasting Post!)

oneoffour111 — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 18:28:57 GMT

Hey mods, this is okay to post, right?

This is a friend of mine, very beautiful and my mental image of Johanna Mason from THG. Coincidentally, her name actually is Joanna and she's from Canada. Comment with your own dreamcasts (for Johanna or otherwise)!

Hope this is LULZY enough for everyone

paixe — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 18:28:06 GMT

This is a favorite game I like to play. Let the speculation BEGIN!

YESSS!!

(Oh, and if anyone doesn't know, the blond kid is Peeta.)

Cinna!

haremstress — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 07:13:40 GMT

Let us discuss Cinna.

What do you guys think is/will be his fate? It's driving me nuts wondering. I kind of cried for reals when he was beaten. After that my first thought was "He is SO getting his tongue cut out." CINNA. ;_; Speculate plz.

details needed for "who killed whom" scoresheet

madri — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:12:46 GMT

Two things I've been pondering --

Who killed the boy from District 4 at the Cornucopia? Was it an accident? Could one of the other Careers have done it on purpose? If so, why? ~~Was it the fish?~~ The only other person I can think of who could possibly have done it is Thresh. Do you think he stuck around at the Cornucopia long enough to get a kill in so quickly? Maybe he goes to get some supplies, District 4 boy attacks, Thresh terminates with extreme prejudice then manages to hoof it while the other Careers are still focusing on the cannon fodder. I suppose that seems like the most likely scenario, but I kind of want to tie it back in to the question of why District 4 is in on the rebellion. Come on, someone give me some awesome conspiracy theories!
I mentioned this in the comments on Lulz Friday but here it is again because it's still bugging me: Did Peeta really kill the girl from District 8 (the one who tried to light a fire near Katniss' hidey-tree) on the second day? Katniss mentions later on at the end of the book that Peeta is upset about the fact that he killed Foxface accidentally, which makes it seem unlikely he would kill someone on purpose when he didn't even really "need" to. The two scenarios I can come up with are: 1, he knew the girl was going to die anyway and so finished her off as a mercy kill, or 2, by the time he got to her, she died on her own. Either of these would make sense, but that doesn't answer the question of why he would volunteer to be the one to go back and finish the job in the first place--he didn't need to be the one to "execute" her, as it were, considering he was with five other people who would have been more than happy to do it themselves. Maybe he didn't want them to torture her, maybe he wanted her to see a friendly (such as it is) face before she died, these seem like Peeta motivations but they could put his façade in jeopardy and it seems pretty needless. I don't know, even taking into account his charade it seems out of character for him to volunteer to be the one to deliver a killing blow. I sort of have always got the feeling that he didn't need to kill her (second scenario posited), because I feel pretty sure that if he had it would have come up again later, but he lucked out and thus has no need to emo over it.

Muttations

captaintish — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:28:15 GMT

Hi! Just found this comm through andrivete_icons' post over at book_icons .

Anyway, I have a question for you all concerning something I've been wondering about since the first book. I'll put it under a cut, even though I'm sure everyone in this community has read the first book.

At the end of The Hunger Games, Katniss is absolutely convinced that the muttations that attack them are the dead tributes. In Catching Fire, she seems to have dismissed this idea as just something the Capital was doing to mess with them. But is there more to it? Could it have been some sort of twisted genetic engineering experiment? Do you think we'll find out more about it in Mockingjay?
And just as a general comment, I really can't wait until next Tuesday. :)

Way Awesome Borders Event Activities

paixe — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:00:30 GMT

I should probably save this for a Lulz Friday, but it's sort of my Friday anyway since I have the next two days off (in a row! o.o).

Here are the links to the activity funtimes for the event I'm hosting at Borders! Thanks to everybody for the awesome suggestions, and keep them coming if any more inspiration strikes!

So, we have:

Crossword!

"Wordhunt"! (way to be original there, ~~Gamemakers~~ event planners)

Trivia! (just the pretty version of the thing I posted last time)

Aaaaaand.. Answers!

Also, since I have them uploaded anyway, we've got a poster and an invite, although wtf am I supposed to do with the invite anyway? Hand it out on street corners?