No one likes a tattletale. We teach little kids not to report on the misdeeds of others. Unless—the rule breaking puts someone physically or emotionally at risk.

We tell teenagers to refrain from engaging in gossip of any kind, about anything, to anyone. Unless—they’re worried about the well-being of a friend.

Certainly no one condones negative discussions intended to reveal private details or sensational facts. That kind of gossip can be unkind, even cruel.

Yet as the lines between what we can talk about and what we can’t continue to blur, and provocateurs set out to intentionally charge our debates, there’s a stronger than ever need to learn the nuances of how to have topical conversation about difficult things. I’m referring to the type of discourse aimed at taking real dilemmas and making meaning from them in thoughtful ways. Let’s call it good gossip.

Why We Do What We Do

No matter your age, there are psychological reasons we seek out unconstrained conversation about other people, involving details not yet confirmed to be true. People dish. People gab. Most of time, chatty talk is harmless. And also gossip can be productive, downright healthy.

As defined by social scientists, gossip is any talk about someone who isn’t present, and it’s usually about something we can make a moral judgment about.

Good gossip plays an important role in keeping us connected. And it increases group cooperation because it acts as a backstop against some of our individualistic urges. Can you believe she did that? = you probably shouldn’t do that. Good gossip strengthens social bonds because it helps people to resolve similar conflicts they have within their own relationships, and it builds empathy. Would I have done that if I were in his shoes?

Finding out what others believe about acceptable behavior informs and reaffirms social norms too. Given the complexity of our world, and our need to understand more complicated social issues, it’s no wonder that podcasts are having a moment.

Because, it turns out, told stories—audiobooks and podcasts alike—act like good gossip. They build a more flexible brain.

Many podcasts feature conversations between people who have overcome obstacles and learned important lessons from them. Through these told stories—or the act of listening—we are exposed to prosocial means of considering tough subjects. Learning to navigate difficult relationships need not only come from first hand experience with yours. Vicarious experience, or the events that happen to others, can educate and inspire you to do better in your own life too.

Do you have any favorite podcasts aimed at helping us be better?

I appreciate the candor found in every episode of Anderson Cooper’s podcast Is That All There Is. With celebrity guests, like comedian Molly Shannon and poet Elizabeth Alexander, Cooper provides a platform for discussing the nuances of disenfranchised grief. Have a box of tissues handy for the episode where he interviews Stephen Colbert. His story of finding healing in being grateful for what the loss of his father and brother taught him about love will undo you. In a beautiful way!

Another example of good gossip is the podcast We Can Do Hard Things hosted by Glennon Doyle. I don’t always agree with the advice metered out there, but that’s perfectly all right! Better than all right. To listen is to learn about other people’s perspective. And right now, we all need to do a lot more listening! I’m a fan of the phrase we can agree to disagree. So tune in. There is much wisdom to be found on issues big and small in many of her nearly 200 episodes.

Read Me | Don’t Ban Me

While self-help podcasts offer listeners the opportunity to process complex social and emotional dilemmas, it’ll come as no surprise that I believe fiction can do the same.

This week I dug into the latest from award winning writer Rebecca Makkai (who used to be a Montessori elementary school teacher! ) And, you guessed it, it's about a podcaster.

In I Have Some Questions For You, a woman who is now a teacher, returns twenty years later to the boarding school she attended, where her roommate was murdered during her senior year.

Like my novel The Dangers of an Ordinary Night, this story includes a cast of complicated characters, lots of drama on and off the stage, and plenty of social issues the author asks us to ponder.

This story is at its best when Makkai shows her main character mentoring a group of students trying to figure out what is rumor and what is fact. The novel explores teenage infallibility and the unreliability of memory. It sings when she layers in social commentary about what it means to be a young woman at the mercy of unruly boys and unrestrained men. It’s a terrific book club selection for discussing good gossip and destructive secrets, why teenagers reach out for help, and why they don’t. It’s a cautionary tale about what happens when trusted adults are absent from teens’ lives.

In Case You Missed It—

I recently appeared on Parent Footprint, a terrific podcast about family life. This episode sensitively discusses the impact of addiction on romantic partners and on the children of those who struggle with substance use issues. Dr. Dan and I also explore women and addiction, and the mom culture that encourages use of alcohol to ease the stress of daily living.

Check out: Sober Curious and the Impact of Addiction on Marriage and Parenting.

What Gives Me Energy | What Brings Me Joy

Nothing brings me more joy than great writing and fresh storytelling. If you want to watch a super fun TV series about podcasting gone awry, catch up on the first two seasons of Only Murders in the Building before Season Three drops sometime later this year.

*You get extra applause if you watch the show with some teenagers and then talk about what gossip depicted in the show is healthy, and what’s neutral, or dangerous.