Nuance: Being Faithful in the Public Square

How does a person of faith engage in a public square that feels loud, fragmented, and often exhausting? In this special episode of the Nuance podcast, we’re flipping the script: usual host Case Thorp steps into the guest seat as he is interviewed by guest host Katie Shook.While Nuance typically explores the intersection of faith and public life through various experts, today we dive into the personal story and "upstream" philosophy of Case himself. He opens up about his childhood in the Atlanta suburbs, his "obnoxious" days as a college activist, and how his view of public engagement shifted from political power to "faithful presence." Whether you’re feeling weary of cultural conflict or searching for a way to make your daily work matter for the common good, this conversation offers a hopeful, nuanced vision for the future of our shared life.🔑 Key Topics Covered in This Episode:The McDonald’s Fit: Case recounts a pivotal childhood memory of seeing a homeless man in the suburbs and the realization that faith must have a real-world impact outside the church walls.Faith in the Financial World: Guest host Katie Shook discusses her role in asset management and how understanding the intersection of faith and work gives purpose to her daily professional life.Moving Upstream of Politics: Why Case shifted from being a political science major to ministry, driven by the conviction that politics is "downstream" from culture.Faithful Presence vs. Power: A look at the concept of "faithful presence" (via James Davison Hunter)—staying true to convictions without "lobbing bombs" at the institutions around us.Institution Building: The importance of "the elders at the city gate"—leaders in business, law, and education who lead for the common good rather than their own bottom line.Lessons from the Past: Case shares his new hero, Ida B. Wells, and how her "quiet, faithful persistence" as a journalist and Presbyterian changed the American consciousness.Civility in the Church: How the "Essentials vs. Non-Essentials" framework in the EPC denomination allows for firm doctrine alongside freedom and joy in relationships.📚 Episode Resources:The Collaborative: wecolabor.comFor the Good of the Public Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/for-the-good-of-the-public-the-morning-five/id1604696954The Center for Christianity and Public Life: https://www.ccpubliclife.org/The Center for Public Justice: https://cpjustice.org/#podcast #podcastclips #faith #vocation #publicsquare #theology #listen #nuance #listenable #christianpodcast #christianliving #faithandwork #publicsquareNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

How does every sidewalk, park bench, and street corner quietly tell us who belongs and who does not? In this episode of the Nuance podcast, host Case Thorp sits down with Dan Kirby, an architect, urban planner, civic leader, and the first Black president of AIA Florida, to explore the profound moral weight carried by the built environment.Dan argues that cities are never neutral. Drawing on decades of work at the intersection of architecture, urban planning, and public ethics, he makes the case that design either serves people or sentences them. He believes that Christian faith offers a distinct framework for choosing service over sentence. From the blueprints his father brought home when he was seven to designing people-centered cities at Jacobs, a 50,000 person global firm, Dan’s journey into architecture and his walk with Jesus are, in his words, the same story.🔑 Key Topics Covered in This Episode:The Morality of Space: Why cities and buildings are moral environments rather than neutral spaces.Designing for People: Moving beyond car-centric design and what that actually requires for human connection.The Planner’s Ethics: The urban planner’s code of ethics and the call to represent those who are not sitting at the table.Thriving Through Senses: How beauty, awe, and the physical senses shape human thriving within a city.Public Interest Design: Using faith as a framework for designing for the common good and the public interest.Inspiration vs. Oppression: Understanding architecture as a tool that can be used for both human inspiration and systemic oppression.Future Ethics: Navigating the roles of AI and sustainability in the future of ethical design.📚 Episode Resources:Jacobs: https://www.jacobs.com/AIA Florida: https://www.aiafla.org/#podcast #podcastclips #faith #vocation #publicsquare #theology #listen #nuance #listenable #christianpodcast #christianliving #faithandwork #publicsquareNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

How does a person of faith stand firm in an increasingly secular public square? In Part 2 of our conversation on the Nuance podcast, host Case Thorp dives into the personal life and spiritual journey of Dr. Robert P. George, the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University.While our first episode focused on the philosophical roots of human rights, today we explore the personal convictions that drive Dr. George's work. He opens up about his unique upbringing in West Virginia, the profound influence of medieval philosophy, and his experiences navigating 41 years at Princeton University as a conservative Catholic. Whether you are concerned about the state of higher education, the shrinking attention spans of modern students, or the decline of the family unit, this episode is packed with essential wisdom for passing down virtue to the next generation.🔑 Key Topics Covered in This Episode:A Unique Spiritual Upbringing: Dr. George shares how growing up in West Virginia with a Syrian Orthodox father, an Italian Catholic mother, and evangelical Protestant friends shaped his faith.The Power of Medieval Philosophy: Why the scholastic methods of thinkers like Thomas Aquinas and Moses Maimonides are the ultimate tools for discovering truth through rigorous debate.Billy Graham Crusades: Dr. George reflects on his childhood experience attending a Billy Graham crusade in Atlanta and his deep appreciation for the evangelical tradition.41 Years at Princeton University: The shift from "old-school liberalism" (which valued free speech and debate) to the modern progressive ideologies dominating college campuses today.The Attention Span Crisis: How smartphones and screen time have severely shortened student attention spans, making it difficult for the younger generation to engage in deep reading.The Decline of the Family: Why institutions like government and the economy cannot produce virtuous citizens on their own—and why mothers, fathers, and local churches are the true bedrock of society.Advising Presidents & Meeting Popes: Dr. George recounts his time advising the George W. Bush administration on bioethics and shares a touching story about meeting Pope John Paul II.📚 Episode Resources:Natural Rights, Culture, and the Common Good: https://america250.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/George_Natural-Rights-Culture-and-the-Common-Good.pdfReport of the Commission on Unalienable Rights: https://fedsoc.org/events/the-commission-on-unalienable-rights-report-human-rights-and-u-s-foreign-policyAmerica's Pastor, the biography of Billy Graham: https://a.co/d/hbmPOGBLearn more about Salem Camp Meeting: https://www.salemcampmeeting.org/#podcast #podcastclips #faith #vocation #publicsquare #theology #listen #nuance #listenable #christianpodcast #christianliving #faithandwork #publicsquareNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

What grounds a nation morally? In this episode of the Nuance podcast, Case sits down with Dr. Robert P. George, the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University. Together, they explore the philosophical and theological foundations that undergird American public life.Drawing on his extensive background in natural law, human rights, and moral philosophy, Dr. George shares insights from his decades of civic leadership. Whether you are interested in the roots of the American republic, the future of civil discourse, or how to model virtue for the next generation, this conversation offers profound wisdom for navigating today's cultural landscape.🔑 Key Topics Covered in This Episode:Unlikely Alliances: Dr. George discusses his decades-long collaboration and deep friendship with Dr. Cornel West, highlighting the importance of engaging across political divides to seek the truth.Defending Free Speech: Hear why both scholars have taken to the road to advocate for freedom of expression and open debate on college campuses.Redefining Human Rights: Dr. George details his experience chairing the Commission on Unalienable Rights under former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and why the commission was formed to clarify American diplomacy.The American Founding vs. Modernity: Discover how the original American understanding of "liberty" and "the pursuit of happiness" (rooted in flourishing and virtue) differs from the modern concept of "license".The Source of Human Dignity: The conversation explores how true human rights are rooted in Genesis 1 and the concept of Imago Dei, rather than being arbitrary gifts from governments or human powers.Raising Virtuous Citizens: Why "more is caught than taught" when it comes to passing down character, self-restraint, and courage to the next generation.📚 Episode Resources:Natural Rights, Culture, and the Common Good: https://america250.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/George_Natural-Rights-Culture-and-the-Common-Good.pdfReport of the Commission on Unalienable Rights: https://fedsoc.org/events/the-commission-on-unalienable-rights-report-human-rights-and-u-s-foreign-policyAmerica's Pastor, the biography of Billy Graham: https://a.co/d/hbmPOGBLearn more about Salem Camp Meeting: https://www.salemcampmeeting.org/#podcast #podcastclips #faith #vocation #publicsquare #theology #listen #nuance #listenable #christianpodcast #christianliving #faithandwork #publicsquareNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

We often think the only way to help the poor is to give them things, but what if the most powerful gift is an opportunity? On this episode of Nuance, Case interviews Peter Greer about how small loans are restoring dignity and hope in some of the world's most underserved communities. Peter explains the "math of the Kingdom," where a single seed of investment can multiply a hundredfold, not just in financial returns, but in restored families and thriving churches.Through moving examples, they discuss the difference between a "scarcity mindset" and an "abundance mindset," showing how even the smallest act of planting a seed can lead to a harvest that feeds nations. Peter also tackles the tough questions about dependency and explains why savings-first models are often more effective than debt. This is a deep dive into how faith and finance intersect to create lasting change.Episode Resources:How Leaders Lose Their Way And How to Make Sure It Doesn’t Happen to You: https://www.peterkgreer.com/how-leaders-lose-their-way-2/Peter Greer's website: https://www.petergreer.com/Learn more about Hope International: http://www.hopeinternational.com/Episode Discussion Guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XNIdpcjhM00UOndp7e2V6rALsgqf0boBHqOGUyre4qk/edit?usp=sharingNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

Success is often more dangerous to a leader's soul than failure because it creates an isolation that makes honest feedback nearly impossible to find. On this episode of Nuance, Case interviews Peter Greer about the subtle mechanics of "mission drift," not just in organizations, but in the hearts of those who lead them. Peter shares vulnerable insights from his tenure at Hope International, discussing how easy it is to focus so hard on the work of the ministry that you lose connection with the God of the ministry.This episode dives into the counter-intuitive strategies for staying grounded, including why you should schedule time to write your own eulogy and how to identify when you are paddling hard but looking down, unaware that you have drifted far from shore. They also tackle the uncomfortable reality that talent and track records are no guarantee against losing your way, emphasizing that the most successful leaders are often the ones most in need of a "mission audit" to ensure their outer success matches their inner integrity.Episode Resources:How Leaders Lose Their Way And How to Make Sure It Doesn’t Happen to You: https://www.peterkgreer.com/how-leaders-lose-their-way-2/Peter Greer's website: https://www.petergreer.com/Learn more about Hope International: http://www.hopeinternational.com/Episode Discussion Guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XNIdpcjhM00UOndp7e2V6rALsgqf0boBHqOGUyre4qk/edit?usp=sharingNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

In this follow-up episode of Nuance, Case continues his conversation with historian Dr. Karen Johnson, author of Ordinary Heroes of Racial Justice. Building on the previous discussion of everyday Christians who worked for justice, this episode explores how discipleship shapes moral courage, how churches can renew civic life, and why racial justice belongs within the Christian calling to love our neighbors well.Dr. Johnson reflects on how historical formation shapes Christian faithfulness over time, explaining how ordinary believers have learned to act without certainty of outcomes, trusting God rather than control. Through stories of figures such as John Perkins, Clarence Jordan, and the ongoing witness of Koinonia Farm, the conversation highlights how public faithfulness has often grown out of community, hospitality, and costly obedience rather than comfort or recognition.The episode also examines the church’s role in moments of social tension, including conversations around immigration, racial identity, and national belonging. Dr. Johnson draws on Christian history to show how these debates are not new, and how the church has struggled to hold together evangelism, discipleship, and social responsibility without fragmenting the gospel. Throughout the discussion, she emphasizes the importance of faithfulness over outcomes, patience over certainty, and humility in the face of complex moral decisions.This conversation invites listeners to consider how Christian public witness is formed through long obedience, communal life, and trust in God’s work across generations. It offers a hopeful and historically-grounded vision of how churches and ordinary believers can participate faithfully in the public square today.Episode Resources:Ordinary Heroes of Racial Justice: A History of Christians in Action: https://www.ivpress.com/ordinary-heroes-of-racial-justiceKaren Johnson's website: https://www.karenjohnsonhistory.com/Learn more about John M. Perkins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._PerkinsLearn more about Koinonia Farm: https://koinoniafarm.org/Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

In this episode of Nuance, Case is joined by historian Dr. Karen Johnson of Wheaton College to explore how Christian public witness has often taken shape through everyday faithfulness practiced in local communities. Drawing from her book Ordinary Heroes of Racial Justice, Dr. Johnson shows how meaningful change has frequently emerged through believers who acted with courage and conviction within their vocations, churches, classrooms, and neighborhoods.The conversation reframes racial justice as a matter of Christian discipleship formed over time through Scripture, historical memory, and love of neighbor. Dr. Johnson helps listeners see how sin can become embedded in social systems, why attention to history is essential for faithful engagement, and how ordinary Christians have responded to injustice without seeking prominence or control. By recovering stories from across racial and cultural lines, this episode expands the Christian imagination for what public faithfulness can look like in complex social contexts.Throughout the discussion, Dr. Johnson reflects on figures such as Clarence Jordan and the witness of Koinonia Farm, as well as the enduring legacy of Ida B. Wells. These examples invite Christians to consider how patient faithfulness, moral courage, and communal commitment have shaped public life in lasting ways. The episode encourages listeners to think carefully about how historical formation can guide faithful action today.This conversation offers a historically grounded vision of public witness, rooted in the life of the church and expressed through ordinary acts of obedience, compassion, and perseverance.Episode Resources:Ordinary Heroes of Racial Justice: A History of Christians in Action: https://www.ivpress.com/ordinary-heroes-of-racial-justiceKaren Johnson's website: https://www.karenjohnsonhistory.com/Learn more about John M. Perkins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._PerkinsLearn more about Koinonia Farm: https://koinoniafarm.org/Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

When algorithms shape truth, justice, and daily decision-making, what does Christian public witness look like?In this second part of their conversation on Nuance, Case continues his discussion with author and researcher Dr. Todd Korpi about artificial intelligence, Christian ethics, and public witness. They explore how discipleship, wisdom, and faithful presence are formed in a world increasingly governed by code.They also discuss how AI affects our understanding of truth, justice, and human responsibility, and why Christians must resist confusing knowledge with wisdom. From hiring algorithms and bias to digital discipleship and public policy, this conversation helps listeners think carefully about how faith is lived publicly in technological systems we often take for granted.Watch Part 1 of this interview here: https://youtu.be/4mq8p4-OGtkEpisode Resources:AI Goes to Church: Pastoral Wisdom for Artificial Intelligence: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1514011247/Todd Korpi's website: https://www.toddkorpi.com/The Anchor Forward Project: https://anchorforward.com/Gloo: https://gloo.com/aihttps://jesus.net/homeNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

What does faithfulness look like when artificial intelligence is shaping our work, our decisions, and even our relationships?In this episode of Nuance, Case is joined by Todd Korpi, author of AI Goes to Church (InterVarsity Press), to examine how emerging technologies are reshaping the workplace—and what Christian theology has to say about it.As AI moves from the lab into everyday life, this conversation goes beyond short-term questions about tools and productivity to address deeper issues of human identity, public witness, and wisdom at work. Together, they reflect on how artificial intelligence challenges our understanding of the image of God, human relationships, and the pace and purpose of modern work.Episode Resources:AI Goes to Church: Pastoral Wisdom for Artificial Intelligence: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1514011247/Todd Korpi's website: https://www.toddkorpi.com/The Anchor Forward Project: https://anchorforward.com/Gloo: https://gloo.com/aihttps://jesus.net/homeNuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

What does Christian public witness actually look like at work, beyond arguments and answers?In this follow-up conversation, Dr. Joshua Chatraw and Tanner move from diagnosing fear to exploring a more grounded vision of faith at work. Instead of focusing on winning arguments or having everything figured out, they reflect on how Christian witness is formed through character, humility, and presence in everyday professional life.Through real-world case studies, including AI and technology ethics, nonprofit leadership, and workplace decision-making, they show how faith becomes visible not primarily through what we say, but through how we live and work alongside others.Episode Resources:Apologetics at the Cross: An Introduction for Christian Witness: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310524687/Telling a Better Story: How to Talk About God in a Skeptical Age: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310108632/Augustine of Hippo: The Doubter Who Became a Church Father: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DF4GQY7Z/Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.

What if the biggest barrier to sharing your faith at work isn’t what you don’t know, but what you think you know?In this conversation, Dr. Joshua Chatraw and guest host Rev. Tanner Fox explore why sharing your faith at work can feel so intimidating, even for thoughtful, committed Christians. From fear of saying the wrong thing to anxiety about workplace consequences, many believers feel stuck between silence and pressure to perform.Rather than offering debate tactics or quick apologetics formulas, this episode examines the deeper reasons faith feels risky in public life and how to respond in a way that reflects the depth and beauty of the Gospel.Episode Resources:Apologetics at the Cross: An Introduction for Christian Witness: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310524687/Telling a Better Story: How to Talk About God in a Skeptical Age: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310108632/Augustine of Hippo: The Doubter Who Became a Church Father: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DF4GQY7Z/Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more. Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today's most pressing issues around living a public faith.