Skip to content

Tokeneconomics survey 2022: Milestone 3#925

Merged
takahser merged 4 commits intow3f:masterfrom
taqtiqa-mark:tokeneconomics-survey-2022
Sep 8, 2023
Merged

Tokeneconomics survey 2022: Milestone 3#925
takahser merged 4 commits intow3f:masterfrom
taqtiqa-mark:tokeneconomics-survey-2022

Conversation

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@taqtiqa-mark taqtiqa-mark commented Jul 17, 2023

Milestone Delivery Checklist

  • The milestone-delivery-template.md has been copied and updated.
  • The invoice form 📝 Pending setup of required corporate entities.
  • This pull request is being made by the same account as the accepted application.
  • I have disclosed any and all sources of reused code in the submitted repositories and have done my due diligence to meet its license requirements.
  • In case of acceptance, the payment will be transferred to the BTC/ETH/fiat account provided in the application.
  • The delivery is according to the Guidelines for Milestone Deliverables.

Link to the application pull request: Tokeneconomics Survey 2022

Signed-off-by: Mark Van de Vyver <mark@taqtiqa.com>
@taqtiqa-mark taqtiqa-mark force-pushed the tokeneconomics-survey-2022 branch from 3bce4fc to 18380cd Compare July 18, 2023 03:53
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@takahser takahser left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

@taqtiqa-mark thanks for submitting.

I have a couple of questions regarding the delivery:

  • Is there a specific reason that most of the figures don't contain information about their contents (see flowcharts in chapter 2)?
  • The terms "token" and "coin" are not clear defined. Sometimes they seem to be used interchangably, while in other cases they're appear to represent different concepts. Example:

    The same classification can also be applied when using tokens instead of native coins.

  • Since this paper is concerned with "Token Economics" it'd be good if there was a definition for the term "Token Economy". I find some sections hard to understand without a clear definition, for example, do you here refer to a single parachain or the Polkadot ecosystem as a whole or something else:

    A token economy can be classified as open if it allows unrestricted staking and rewarding using the native coin (NC) of other token economies, as well as accepting the native coins of other token economies as a means of payment for transaction fees.

  • The whole chapter "2.1 Economy Type" is hard to understand. For example, given the quote in the previous point, which blockchain (or different component) is meant for the "payment for transaction fees"? Is it the main chain of such a token economy, such as the Polkadot ecosystem? Or do you refer to a single parachain?
  • what notation did you use for step 2 in the flowchart in Figure 1:

    (rational expectations NEAR/2 equilibrium) OR (no PRE/2 arbitrage OR arbitrage PRE/2 free) AND ((block NEAR/2 chain) AND ((token NEAR/2 economics) OR (tokenomics)))

  • Can you clearify which polkadot parachain tokens have been reviewed?

    None of the reviewed Polkadot parachain tokens/coins were designed using a rational expectations framework (with the possible exception of the Equilibrium parachain), and none derive an expression for their token price dynamics.

  • What's the reason you're using the term "parallel-chain" rather than "parachain" in some occasions?
  • I suggest you format numbered lists in a way that makes it easier to read. For example, this excerpt is rather hard to read (p11):
    image
  • What does stylized mean in the context of token price dynamics or partial equilibrium?

    No Polkadot parachain identifies an expression for stylized token price dynamics.
    The authors consider a stylized partial equilibrium model of using redeemable tokens in place of using fiat currency.

  • In 2.2 Model Type, what kind of variables are you referring to? Maybe an example would help me understand it.
  • What's the reason you included only Equilibrium into Table 1? While I acknowledge the following quote, I'm not clear on why you wouldn't be able to evaluate other attributes, namely Economy, Model, Sector, Production, Monetary:

    None of the reviewed Polkadot parachain token/coins were designed with an explicit equilibrium objective, nor using an rational expectations framework (with the possible exception of the Equilibrium parachain

    image

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@takahser thanks for the close reading, and the points raised. I'll address them shortly.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

I have a couple of questions regarding the delivery:

Thanks again for the careful review. I'll respond inline below. Nonetheless, a general point recurs, so I'll address that and refer here as required.
This is, to my knowledge, the first attempt to use an existing analytic framework to review the Polkadot ecosystem token designs.
Consequently, it is closest to a scoping review. On inspection, the Polkadot ecosystem was innocent of any of these ideas. Naturally, while accurate, a statement to that effect is unsatisfactory. So I expanded the scope to at least point to those topics and features I had expected to already be well developed. Obviously, this led to a problem - the original proposal for a creative synthesis was rejected in favor of a scoping review, with a reduction in the time the reviewers requested. The current submission is something of a compromise. Hopefully, this moves the ball forward.

  • Is there a specific reason that most of the figures don't contain information about their contents (see flowcharts in chapter 2)?

I've clarified:

image

  • The terms "token" and "coin" are not clear defined. Sometimes they seem to be used interchangably, while in other cases they're appear to represent different concepts.

I've added this:

image

Example:
> The same classification can also be applied when using tokens instead of native coins.

I've removed the above.

  • Since this paper is concerned with "Token Economics" it'd be good if there was a definition for the term "Token Economy". I find some sections hard to understand without a clear definition, ...

See the excerpt provided above.

... for example, do you here refer to a single parachain or the Polkadot ecosystem as a whole or something else:
> A token economy can be classified as open if it allows unrestricted staking and rewarding using the native coin (NC) of other token economies, as well as accepting the native coins of other token economies as a means of payment for transaction fees.

I've clarified:

image

  • The whole chapter "2.1 Economy Type" is hard to understand. For example, given the quote in the previous point, which blockchain (or different component) is meant for the "payment for transaction fees"? Is it the main chain of such a token economy, such as the Polkadot ecosystem? Or do you refer to a single parachain?

I've added:

image

  • what notation did you use for step 2 in the flowchart in Figure 1:

    (rational expectations NEAR/2 equilibrium) OR (no PRE/2 arbitrage OR arbitrage PRE/2 free) AND ((block NEAR/2 chain) AND ((token NEAR/2 economics) OR (tokenomics)))

Consider this pseudo code. I make no claims about it.

  • Can you clearify which polkadot parachain tokens have been reviewed?

    None of the reviewed Polkadot parachain tokens/coins were designed using a rational expectations framework (with the possible exception of the Equilibrium parachain), and none derive an expression for their token price dynamics.

I've added:

image

  • What's the reason you're using the term "parallel-chain" rather than "parachain" in some occasions?

I've adopted parachain throughout.

  • I suggest you format numbered lists in a way that makes it easier to read. For example, this excerpt is rather hard to read (p11):
    image

image

  • What does stylized mean in the context of token price dynamics or partial equilibrium?

    No Polkadot parachain identifies an expression for stylized token price dynamics.
    The authors consider a stylized partial equilibrium model of using redeemable tokens in place of using fiat currency.

I added:

image

  • In 2.2 Model Type, what kind of variables are you referring to? Maybe an example would help me understand it.

image

  • What's the reason you included only Equilibrium into Table 1? While I acknowledge the following quote, I'm not clear on why you wouldn't be able to evaluate other attributes, namely Economy, Model, Sector, Production, Monetary:

    None of the reviewed Polkadot parachain tokens/coins were designed with an explicit equilibrium objective, nor using a rational expectations framework (with the possible exception of the Equilibrium parachain

None of the white papers address those issues. In fact, there is no reason to believe they are aware of them, compared to footnote b in Table 1 - where there was something substantive to work with/from. What you suggest would be a table with None in every cell. Like the last two columns of Table 1.
It is for this very reason that I searched for something that would fit the Polkadot ecosystem, and arrived at Table 3.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

If there are to be further iterations, can I ask that issues be opened in the project repository and linked to here?

@taqtiqa-mark taqtiqa-mark requested a review from takahser July 28, 2023 05:08
@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@taqtiqa-mark thanks for the rapid progress on this. I went through your comment and I think it's mostly clarified. I'm still having a closer look and I'm going to create issues, as demanded if I should have any follow-up questions/unclarities.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Jul 28, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark are you sure you've pushed the changes? I didn't find any of the new text sections you've provided screenshots for in your most recent comment.

Regarding this:

image

For simplicity, I think it'd be easier to stick to 1 of the terms. However, it's not a deal breaker and I'm fine with the explanation you provide here.

Apart from that, I've created this issue. At this time I have nothing else to add, but I'll go over the new version of the paper one more time as soon as it's pushed to your repo.

Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@takahser takahser left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

See my last comment.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@taqtiqa-mark are you sure you've pushed the changes? I didn't find any of the new text sections you've provided screenshots for in your most recent comment.

I believe so:

https://github.com/taqtiqa-mark/tokenomics-survey-2022/blob/main/milestones/milestone_3.pdf

Apart from that, I've created this issue. At this time I have nothing else to add, but I'll go over the new version of the paper one more time as soon as it's pushed to your repo.

Thanks, I'll request a review once I've updated and pushed the new version.

Signed-off-by: Mark Van de Vyver <mark@taqtiqa.com>
@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

I believe I've addressed all comments and requested changes.

@taqtiqa-mark taqtiqa-mark requested a review from takahser July 30, 2023 06:44
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@takahser takahser left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

@taqtiqa-mark I've just pushed my evaluation, feel free to have a look.

  • The only open points are:
    • publish the paper
    • amend the contract to remove Docker from the requirements (or implement it)

Apart from that, everything has been accepted.

Let me know if you have any questions.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

I've proposed the Dockerfile references be removed:

w3f/Grants-Program#1877

I'll update here when I upload the paper.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@takahser, appreciate your thoughts on the idea of delaying publishing the paper until the second Sockin & Xiong paper transitions from "forthcoming".

This would mean the milestone-3 blocks until then - hopefully that wouldn't mean you get spammed with reminders or some such follow-up.

Several reasons for this:

  1. Not being available from the publisher means
    a. There maybe referee feedback that is missed. Unlikely, but still possible.
    b. Readers are left to ferret out any of the drafts they can, this goes back at least 3 years. These drafts have evolved.
  2. The original proposal expressly limited its scope to published articles, partly for the above reasons.

I can still draw down the milestone 1 and 2 payments when my accountant sets things up - he is dealing with some issues so this may take a while.

Hope that sounds acceptable?

@taqtiqa-mark taqtiqa-mark requested a review from takahser August 2, 2023 02:14
@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Aug 2, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark does this imply that you can't publish the paper because the referenced Sockin & Xiong paper paper's status is still forthcoming? Personally,I wouldn't mind its publication even with a citation of an impending paper. This could be broadly acceptable, considering that it's a fast-moving field where compromises are sometimes made to accelerate time to market (or journal, in this case). But I'll leave it to you to decide, given your evident expertise in academia.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@taqtiqa-mark does this imply that you can't publish the paper because the referenced Sockin & Xiong paper paper's status is still forthcoming?

Maybe publish as "Draft: Comments welcome"?

Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@takahser takahser left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Maybe publish as "Draft: Comments welcome"?

Yes, that works for me.

I went over the paper again and saw that you forgot to update the graph in 2.1:

image image

Here you're still using the NC acronym from the previous version of the paper. I suggest you update it to NT instead.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Aug 4, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark feel free to ping me once this is fixed. I'll take a look at it next Wednesday as I'm going to be ooo until then.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@taqtiqa-mark any update?

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

Sure, I'm still coming up with a way to address the objections of @jonasW3F and also stay within the guidelines. I have a draft but still not fully happy with it.

Also, full disclosure, I've reached out to the paper authors and some are away until from their desks until September. I'll leave up to you if you want to wait on their responses.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@taqtiqa-mark thanks for the reply. Once you're happy with it, feel free to ping me again so I can have another look. I just wanted to check whether it's being dealt with. 👍

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@takahser, appreciate your patience. I've resolved the outstanding issues, given the constraints of the agreed scope, budget, and W3F guidelines.

@taqtiqa-mark taqtiqa-mark requested a review from takahser August 30, 2023 07:46
@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@taqtiqa-mark thanks for the update. I checked the links but I didn't find the paper. Does it mean you submitted them but they're not online yet (also no pre-print, for example)?

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

I checked the links but I didn't find the paper.

Not clear what you are referring to, when I follow this link:

image

I see the updated article:

image

Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@takahser takahser left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

@taqtiqa-mark sorry, I guess my last comment left room for interpretation. The doc itself looks good to me. 👍

By links, I was referring to the journal links, namely: SSRN (e.g. FEN - Cryptocurrency Research eJournal), IDEAS, Arxiv (q-fin.GN). My understanding was that you'd submit the paper to these journals as a DRAFT, so I'd like to ask if 1) you've done that and 2) if there's a way for me to verify that.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

Yes that is the penultimate step. I just need you to confirm you are happy with how I've closed out the issues raised by jonasw3, and that there are no other issues.

With that confirmation I'll

  • post the papers,
  • add the links to the PR, and
  • ask for this PR be merged.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Sep 1, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark got it. Yes, it's fine by me. Once you can show me the proof that you've submitted the paper, I'll approve this milestone.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

taqtiqa-mark commented Sep 4, 2023

SSRN has a review process:
image
As does IDEAS, via MPRA for non-academics
image

Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@takahser takahser left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

@taqtiqa-mark thanks for the screenshots. How about the Arxiv submission, could you post a screenshot there as well, so we can conclude this grant?

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

taqtiqa-mark commented Sep 5, 2023

How about the Arxiv submission

I need an endorsement from someone in the Quantitative Finance area. All my endorsers are in the stats domains. Could take another day or two... unless you know of someone I can email the endorsement link/code to?

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Sep 5, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark ok no problem, lmk once you've received the endorsement. I'm not aware myself of anybody who can endorse you.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@takahser , still no movement on the arxiv front - seems quiet a isolated/insular ecosystem. Anyway, I suggest replacing Arxiv with ResearchGate, where I already have a presence.

If you agree I'll amend the application, then update here when done?

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Sep 7, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark yes, feel free to amend it.

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

taqtiqa-mark commented Sep 8, 2023

@takahser , please see ResearchGate.

@takahser takahser merged commit e3776bf into w3f:master Sep 8, 2023
@github-actions
Copy link
Copy Markdown

github-actions bot commented Sep 8, 2023

We noticed that this is the last milestone of your project. Congratulations on completing your grant! 🎊

So, where to from here? First of all, you should join our Grants Community chat, if you haven't already, so we can stay in touch.
If you are looking for continuative support for your project, there are quite a few options. The main goal of the W3F grants program is to support research as well as early-stage technical projects. If your project still falls under one of those categories, you might want to apply for a follow-up grant. However, depending on your goals and project status, there are other support programs in our ecosystem that might be better suited as the next step. For example, projects with a Business Case/Token should look into the Substrate Builders Program or VC Funding. Common Good projects have a good chance of receiving Treasury Funding.

For a more comprehensive list, see our Alternative Funding page. Let us know if you have any questions regarding the above. We are more than happy to point you to additional resources and help you determine the best course of action.
Lastly, we hope your W3F grant was a success and we want to thank you for being part of the journey!

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

@takahser thanks for your patience, appreciate your timely responses and thoughtful comments.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

takahser commented Sep 8, 2023

@taqtiqa-mark thanks for your efforts as well. You can find the final, approved evaluation here.
By the way, I was going to forward your invoice, but I haven't found it. I think you haven't uploaded it yet, is that correct? When are you planning to upload it?

@taqtiqa-mark
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor Author

When are you planning to upload it?

Thanks, my accountant is dealing with some personal circumstances, so the legal entities haven't been setup yet. Sorry I can't be more concrete - hope you understand.

@takahser
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Contributor

@taqtiqa-mark no problem, just upload the invoice and ping me here once you've sorted out the issues. 👍

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment

Projects

None yet

Development

Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.

2 participants