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@isabelle-dr
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@isabelle-dr isabelle-dr commented May 22, 2024

Problem

When translations.txt was added into GTFS (source), the feed_info.txt file was changed from :

File: Optional

To:

File: Optional (Required if translations.txt is provided)

Then, when the Recommended presence was added into GTFS (source), the feed_info.txt file was changed to:

File: Recommended (Required if translations.txt is provided)

The issue is: the Dataset Files table at the top of the spec was not updated with these changes; feed_info.txt is still described as Optional.

Solution

In this PR, I modified the dataset file table with what I believe is the right requirement for feed_info.txt:

Conditionally Required:

  • Required if translations.txt is provided
  • Recommended otherwise

@skinkie
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skinkie commented May 22, 2024

I would rather have this upgraded to required, without the constraint.

@isabelle-dr
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I would rather have this upgraded to required, without the constraint.

I think you're not the only one, but making feed_info.txt Required would make existing data invalid & be a breaking change, which goes against our guiding principles.
Recommended is one solution for encouraging the industry to produce feed_info.txt while following these principles.

@skinkie
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skinkie commented May 22, 2024

Upgrading anything from optional as required would be a breaking change. Hence, I would like to have a vote on the right solution. This still does not help us forward.

@gcamp
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gcamp commented May 22, 2024

Unsure what you are arguing here @skinkie, that we break backward compatibility without a versioning scheme or other means to have a transition? Should consumer start rejecting dataset the minute the vote has passed?

@skinkie
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skinkie commented May 22, 2024

Unsure what you are arguing here @skinkie, that we break backward compatibility without a versioning scheme or other means to have a transition? Should consumer start rejecting dataset the minute the vote has passed?

As we both know nobody is actively rejecting data. Not even when their data is not in UTF-8, a requirement which is also part of this great standard. Making an extra file mandatory as part of the specification does not break the existing implementations only new implementations.

Now, the suggestion is that we could make feed_info.txt mandatory once when translations.txt was provided. Was that then a breaking change? Or can we introduce any new feature (without versioning) and then just say: "If you use this feature, then you must provide feed_info.txt."

@doconnoronca
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I assume consumers would only reject files unsuitable for their particular system, which could be different from what that standards require.

@eliasmbd eliasmbd added the Discussion Period The community engages in conversations to help refine and develop the proposal. label May 22, 2024
@isabelle-dr
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This PR doesn't change the requirement level for feed_info.txt, it updates the table at the top to match the requirement we have at the file level.

The change to make feed_info.txt go from Optional to Recommended was voted on in #386.

Discussing changing it from Recommended to Required would have to happen in another issue, and we have an issue open for discussing backward compatibility and versioning.

@isabelle-dr isabelle-dr requested a review from tzujenchanmbd May 24, 2024 12:39
@eliasmbd eliasmbd added the GTFS Schedule Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Schedule label May 31, 2024
@isabelle-dr isabelle-dr removed the Discussion Period The community engages in conversations to help refine and develop the proposal. label Jun 7, 2024
@isabelle-dr
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Given that this PR is not changing the spec but rather adding an amendment that was missed in #386, I was thinking a review would be enough to merge this PR, and that a vote wouldn't be necessary.

That being said, I am happy to call a vote if others think it's needed.
Thoughts? Do we need a vote before merging this PR?

@gcamp
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gcamp commented Jun 11, 2024

Even if it was a mistake from a previous PR, this is not from an editorial change. I would do a vote.

@eliasmbd eliasmbd added the Discussion Period The community engages in conversations to help refine and develop the proposal. label Jun 27, 2024
@isabelle-dr
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This PR has been open for at least 7 calendar days. As per the Spec Amendment Process, I am opening a vote for updating the requirement of feed_info.txt in the top section, so that it matches what is described below.

Voting ends on 2024-07-17 at 23:59:59 UTC.

@e-lo
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e-lo commented Jul 3, 2024

+1 UrbanLabs

@skinkie
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skinkie commented Jul 3, 2024

+1 OpenGeo

@gcamp
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gcamp commented Jul 3, 2024

+1 Transit

@drewda
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drewda commented Jul 3, 2024

+1 from @interline-io

@tzujenchanmbd tzujenchanmbd added Vote to Test Community votes to determine whether the proposal is ready for testing. and removed Discussion Period The community engages in conversations to help refine and develop the proposal. labels Jul 3, 2024
@evansiroky
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+1 Caltrans

@isabelle-dr
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The voting period ended on 2024-07-17 at 23:59:59 UTC.

With 5 votes in favor and no votes against, the vote passes.
The votes came from:

Thank you to everyone who participated!

@isabelle-dr isabelle-dr merged commit cc60dc4 into master Jul 18, 2024
@tzujenchanmbd
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This recommendation has been incorporated into the Canonical GTFS Validator V6.0.0. Please refer to the release page: https://github.com/MobilityData/gtfs-validator/releases/tag/v6.0.0.

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9 participants