00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:54.090
Fishing is our way of life.

00:00:57.270 --> 00:00:59.690
We are salmon people

00:01:02.590 --> 00:01:06.490
deeply and clearly. We think
that fishing is who we are.

00:01:08.950 --> 00:01:13.130
For generations. Salmon has
sustained our way of life.

00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:20.690
Fishing. It's a time to
teach. It's a time to learn.

00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:24.770
It's a time to become connected
with your roots and who you are.

00:01:27.210 --> 00:01:31.850
Is been stated that salmon
are as important as the air
that we breathe and we've

00:01:31.850 --> 00:01:34.890
always been taught when the
tide is out, the table is set.

00:01:37.230 --> 00:01:41.530
But without the bolt decision,
there'd be no fish. Today.

00:01:46.550 --> 00:01:47.570
It changed everything.

00:01:48.810 --> 00:01:53.570
Probably the most important decision in
our state's history in a lot of ways.

00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:58.330
Without the bolt decision, we
might not be Indian anymore.

00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.530
There's one. All right. Still with fish?

00:02:54.070 --> 00:02:58.730
Yes sir. That is a beautiful fish,
man. Yeah, that's a good one.

00:02:59.010 --> 00:03:01.080
Harry, hold up Ben. I need
to get a picture of that.

00:03:04.030 --> 00:03:04.860
Nice one.

00:03:04.980 --> 00:03:07.160
That's a beautiful one. Yes, sir.

00:03:09.310 --> 00:03:12.120
Fishing is the way of life
for me here on the Squa River.

00:03:25.230 --> 00:03:29.200
I've had the opportunity to fish for over
20 years in the same fishing set where

00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:32.760
my father Billy Frank Jr. And my
grandfather Willie Frank Sr. Fished

00:03:37.140 --> 00:03:40.440
for us, the Sundays when we're open
on the river is going to church.

00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:43.640
That's our way of going to church
and connecting with our spirituality,

00:03:44.140 --> 00:03:47.600
and it's unfortunate now because we're
down to 12 days of fishing a year.

00:03:50.260 --> 00:03:54.280
My father 60 years ago was still getting
his head bashed in on the river banks.

00:03:54.540 --> 00:03:58.080
He was getting his head bashed in Olympia
right on the rocks where our state

00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:02.600
capitol is during a fishing protest to
demonstrate what goes on along the river

00:04:02.600 --> 00:04:05.280
because the state of Washington, they
didn't want to tell people the truth.

00:04:05.820 --> 00:04:09.040
And so now as we come in 49 years
later, we come up to bolt 50.

00:04:09.740 --> 00:04:10.840
It is time to tell the truth.

00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:18.780
The Medicine Creek treaty
tree was just right over here.

00:04:19.730 --> 00:04:22.060
That treaty is the
foundation of who we are.

00:04:22.310 --> 00:04:25.540
Everything that was
supposedly signed there

00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.380
is what was promised to us, but it was
also what was taken away from us too.

00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:45.820
I believe 1855 was when the Denny party
landed and that's when some serious

00:04:45.820 --> 00:04:47.140
changes began.

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.620
As the Europeans and the
settlers began to state claims,

00:04:54.280 --> 00:04:56.580
things began to change
for the native people.

00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:03.300
The colonial people came along and they
believed that they can just come and

00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:06.020
take over the territories
where we were already here.

00:05:08.080 --> 00:05:11.700
The United States had to enter into these
treaties because every square inch of

00:05:11.700 --> 00:05:14.420
land in Washington state
was owned by tribes.

00:05:17.070 --> 00:05:18.780
There was a huge language barrier.

00:05:19.780 --> 00:05:23.140
Northern lu shoot seed and Southern lu
shoot seed were the primary dialects

00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:27.820
spoken by the treaty tribes of
Point Elliott and Madison Creek.

00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:33.020
The only way to convey messages
or to have a discussion was

00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:38.460
a trade language called Chinook jargon.
Let's just say it's not very accurate.

00:05:38.520 --> 00:05:43.180
It doesn't translate well
into all languages. It can
mean many different things.

00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:47.500
The same word in Chinook jargon
can mean several different

00:05:47.610 --> 00:05:51.940
definitions, but it's
also based on context.

00:05:52.840 --> 00:05:57.640
I'm sure that was one of the objectives
by the federal government to manipulate

00:05:58.020 --> 00:06:02.640
the tribal people and make 'em
believe that this is their only

00:06:02.660 --> 00:06:06.520
option. This is what you can do,
this is what we're going to give you.

00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.240
Territory was seated and we were
placed on little reservations.

00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:15.760
We got little reservations, but
we also secured some rights.

00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:21.080
Our leaders at that time were savvy
enough to recognize what was happening

00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:26.200
and had the foresight to make
arrangements and certain wording

00:06:26.700 --> 00:06:27.840
and certain phrases.

00:06:28.470 --> 00:06:33.080
It's like usual and accustom
fishing stations to right to

00:06:33.670 --> 00:06:38.480
fish and gather at their usual
and accustomed areas and it became

00:06:38.540 --> 00:06:41.960
an advantage to the first
people of this area.

00:06:42.620 --> 00:06:47.200
We reserved our hunting rights and
our fishing rights and our gathering

00:06:47.780 --> 00:06:49.920
of berries and our health and education.

00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:55.160
Tribes signed the treaties with the
understanding of this arrangement is

00:06:56.020 --> 00:06:56.880
in perpetuity.

00:06:57.460 --> 00:07:02.080
We signed the treaty to retain
our identity not to become white

00:07:02.940 --> 00:07:05.480
and that's lost in the laundry often.

00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:10.120
See, we're not a conquered people.
There's no rights of conquest here.

00:07:10.380 --> 00:07:14.560
We entered into a peace treaty
without going to war and we

00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:19.600
sacrificed this land. We seeded this
territory for just a little bit of rights.

00:07:20.150 --> 00:07:24.920
They really wanted to ensure that we
would always be able to fish in perpetuity

00:07:25.070 --> 00:07:29.040
with the landscape because of how
inherently connected it is to us,

00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:34.720
and I think that does maintain a lot
of power for our tribal communities.

00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:47.040
We had a federal judge recognize
our treaty rights back in 1974 and

00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:48.480
before Judge Bull.

00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:53.000
I mean a lot of folks said that was the
Indian's last stand here on the Squa and

00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:54.160
all of our different rivers.

00:07:54.820 --> 00:07:56.680
So when that treaty was signed,

00:07:57.140 --> 00:08:00.800
the salmon weren't so important
to the non-tribal people.

00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:05.400
The only way to preserve salmon at the
time was to barrel and pickle them or

00:08:05.430 --> 00:08:06.260
salt them,

00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:11.040
so it wasn't until canning was
invented that the salmon became a

00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:11.870
commodity.

00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:16.800
There is nothing to keep these fish
from swimming out. Once they are caught,

00:08:17.590 --> 00:08:21.840
only the instinct never to turn back.
Keeps thousands of salmon in the traps.

00:08:22.090 --> 00:08:27.080
These traps catch as many as 35,000
sleek and meaty salmon per day.

00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:38.200
You could actually see a great
decline during those early years of

00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:39.030
canning.

00:08:41.510 --> 00:08:45.000
That was the start of the
major decline of our salmon.

00:08:48.860 --> 00:08:53.040
It turned into a money grab with
the salmon in the early 19 hundreds.

00:08:53.040 --> 00:08:55.760
Once it turned, I think folks
started moving up here more.

00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:58.080
You started seeing tribes
getting less and less.

00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:04.080
All of the off reservation
sites that our people

00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:09.080
traditionally used one by
one got taken away by influx

00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:10.120
of immigrants.

00:09:10.910 --> 00:09:15.400
Fish numbers started declining
as the management of them was

00:09:15.750 --> 00:09:19.560
done in a manner that was destroying the
run and the habitat was being destroyed

00:09:19.560 --> 00:09:22.240
by development and logging practices.

00:09:22.940 --> 00:09:24.680
And so as a resource declined,

00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:29.360
there was more controversy over who
was going to be able to harvest that

00:09:29.390 --> 00:09:30.440
declining resource

00:09:32.100 --> 00:09:36.600
and the state decided that they were
going to stop the tribes from fishing in

00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:39.360
their usually custom places. Our.

00:09:39.390 --> 00:09:43.200
Traditional practices became
illegal under state law.

00:09:45.850 --> 00:09:48.560
There was a lot of
tension in that fishermen,

00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:52.760
they could only fish on reservation
and of course the fish are

00:09:53.780 --> 00:09:57.320
not always on reservation,
and so they started going out.

00:09:57.790 --> 00:10:01.320
They started getting caught
and they started going to jail.

00:10:14.510 --> 00:10:19.360
This boat would go back and forth
and back and forth 24 hours a

00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:23.760
day making sure that they weren't crossing
this invisible line that the state

00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:27.520
had mandated that the Indians
couldn't fish there anymore,

00:10:28.100 --> 00:10:32.360
and I think that was literally the
beginning of the fish wars for a lot of

00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:33.190
people.

00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:38.600
If they wanted to fish, they had to fish
the same as non treaty, but most often,

00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:42.400
and not all the tribes didn't
agree with that and didn't do that.

00:10:43.630 --> 00:10:48.520
Enforcement came after them when they
were not on reservation or fishing with

00:10:48.900 --> 00:10:49.880
the non treaty.

00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:55.040
And every time they would
put an net in the water,

00:10:56.430 --> 00:10:59.480
he'd come state game, state fisheries.

00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:04.000
They'd all come out with
all of their work and they

00:11:04.990 --> 00:11:07.520
pounded the bottom side of the canoes.

00:11:07.820 --> 00:11:10.080
That's what happened to all the canoes.

00:11:10.900 --> 00:11:13.680
It was quite a contentious time.

00:11:14.050 --> 00:11:18.160
There was a lot of racism and a lot
of defending yourselves downtown.

00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:23.680
If somebody had a little outboard motor,

00:11:24.300 --> 00:11:28.960
the pigs would drop it
in salt water slash the

00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:31.320
nets, arrest the fishermens,

00:11:31.810 --> 00:11:34.360
treat them like they were thieves,

00:11:34.510 --> 00:11:39.360
like they were the thieves and here
everything had been stolen from

00:11:39.380 --> 00:11:40.440
the Indians.

00:11:41.020 --> 00:11:44.640
My mom would come and say, what? Your
dad won't be coming home tonight,

00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:47.090
him and your uncles

00:11:57.110 --> 00:12:01.760
shit, just to let us know that he was

00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:04.800
probably get arrested for fish.

00:12:07.270 --> 00:12:12.200
They had to secretly fish kind of
just be incognito so they weren't

00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:13.920
getting arrested because
they were breaking the rules.

00:12:14.150 --> 00:12:14.980
They were brutal.

00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:21.400
I can remember here the fisheries director
throwing rocks at tribal members up

00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:25.440
here. How can that happen?
How can that happen?

00:12:28.870 --> 00:12:33.560
Many of their fisheries were
preempted by the non-Indians taken

00:12:33.750 --> 00:12:37.120
away their fish before they
got to the reservation.

00:12:38.990 --> 00:12:40.560
They called it conservation.

00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:45.800
That's how they characterized their
restrictions on tribal fisheries.

00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:49.880
You can't fish in the Squa
River because of conservation,

00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:55.160
but what it really was was that they'd
rather catch those fish out on the ocean

00:12:55.900 --> 00:13:00.720
or somewhere else out in Puget Sound
so there aren't fish returning to the

00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:01.710
Squa River.

00:13:03.420 --> 00:13:07.040
In those days, economic
conditions weren't very good.

00:13:07.420 --> 00:13:10.240
The people lived paycheck to paycheck.

00:13:10.540 --> 00:13:15.080
We was poor. We was dirt poor.
I'm not joking. There was hole.

00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:16.640
We had no running water.

00:13:17.150 --> 00:13:20.280
They were desperate. That
was the circumstance.

00:13:20.510 --> 00:13:24.480
They had no health care,
they had no education.

00:13:24.590 --> 00:13:28.880
They had had no money,
they had no housing.

00:13:28.970 --> 00:13:30.280
There was no place to live.

00:13:30.940 --> 00:13:35.760
And all of a sudden you're getting
inundated by state rules and state laws

00:13:35.790 --> 00:13:39.160
that says Indians can't fish
here. Indians can't do that.

00:13:40.190 --> 00:13:42.920
Telling the Indians, they
can't be who they are.

00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:49.260
You think about what the
state of Washington tried
to do to our people was it

00:13:49.260 --> 00:13:52.820
was the same thing that was done a
hundred years before that with termination

00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:54.420
trying to just get rid of us.

00:13:54.810 --> 00:13:58.260
They were trying to throw all of our
people in jail, nets, motors, everything,

00:13:58.260 --> 00:14:01.940
confiscated all and set these bails
at this outrageous bail. I mean,

00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:03.580
that's why you still have that anger.

00:14:03.680 --> 00:14:08.660
You still have a lot of that bitterness
today and you have a lot of these elders

00:14:08.660 --> 00:14:09.740
who are still, remember that.

00:14:13.710 --> 00:14:17.060
Billy Frank Jr. Liked to
say I wasn't a policy guy.

00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:20.660
I was a getting arrested
guy and that's true.

00:14:20.750 --> 00:14:25.260
Billy was arrested more than 50 times
in his fight to protect tribal fishing

00:14:25.260 --> 00:14:26.090
rights.

00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:30.500
I know Billy every time he got arrested
and hauled off to jail in Tacoma,

00:14:30.950 --> 00:14:31.940
every time he was released,

00:14:31.970 --> 00:14:35.620
he'd come right back and jump on the
boat and go fishing again and they'd come

00:14:35.620 --> 00:14:38.220
back and get him again and again
and again and again and again.

00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:39.980
He wasn't going to give up.

00:14:40.650 --> 00:14:45.020
This is the Squa Indian
reservation created under the
provisions of the Medicine

00:14:45.020 --> 00:14:46.900
Creek Treaty of 1854.

00:14:47.850 --> 00:14:52.520
This is the place still known today as
Frank's Landing. Bill Frank lives here.

00:14:53.020 --> 00:14:55.600
My grandfather, Willie Frank Sr. In 1919,

00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:59.560
he purchased six acres of land right
here at Frank's landing along the Squa

00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:00.400
River.

00:15:00.940 --> 00:15:05.760
The movement was us going to
jail right here at the Landing

00:15:05.870 --> 00:15:08.000
here. Fort Lewis is over there.

00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:12.840
The state game department was
watching us 24 hours a day here

00:15:13.900 --> 00:15:17.360
and we continued to fish.

00:15:18.180 --> 00:15:19.520
We fished every day.

00:15:20.510 --> 00:15:23.880
Grandpa's house is on the right on River

00:15:25.140 --> 00:15:29.520
Mesa's house was over here
and then we lived in a little

00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:33.800
just a shack that had no
insulation or nothing.

00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:38.720
It just had wood walls and we had oiled

00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:39.550
heat.

00:15:39.630 --> 00:15:43.840
That was our community At the time
before the Dutch boat decision.

00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:45.480
We were always fishing here.

00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:48.520
This was our usual and the
custom ground in our eyes,

00:15:48.540 --> 00:15:50.800
but the state didn't see
it that way. Technically,

00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:52.680
as we are off the squally reservation.

00:15:56.560 --> 00:16:00.240
A lot of game wardens coming in,
arresting whoever they were after.

00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:05.280
It would be either my two
uncles that lived there or

00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:09.200
dad, but they'd come in like with 30 cars.

00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:22.520
All my uncles and dad were in jail
at the same time and that's when

00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:27.920
Auntie Meel and mom had
to go set net because

00:16:27.940 --> 00:16:29.120
we weren't going to give up.

00:16:32.090 --> 00:16:35.480
Uncle Don, my dad's
brother, his daughter Nancy,

00:16:35.610 --> 00:16:39.880
tells the story about how she was the
only kid that went to go see my dad,

00:16:40.460 --> 00:16:43.600
her dad and all of
these fishermen in jail,

00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:46.240
and she said that her dad,

00:16:46.290 --> 00:16:50.920
uncle Don was so upset that she came
because they were getting three meals a

00:16:50.920 --> 00:16:51.750
day.

00:16:51.910 --> 00:16:54.960
They get thrown in jail and their family's
at home starving and they're getting

00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:58.000
three meals a day. They
ended up resting mom and.

00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.770
My auntie.

00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:04.640
Not as illegal gear, and
it's going to be taken,

00:17:06.820 --> 00:17:10.520
you take us with it, but we're
not letting go fishing on the ed.

00:17:10.570 --> 00:17:15.040
We're all members. We're
too. What you doing?

00:17:15.330 --> 00:17:17.000
We're not either You are the one that's,

00:17:18.580 --> 00:17:20.720
you're the one that been
pushing them on our land.

00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:45.980
So you were home by yourself then?

00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.480
No, I had my auntie's daughters,

00:17:51.590 --> 00:17:54.560
they were there. I stayed
with them. They were

00:17:56.060 --> 00:17:59.840
in their twenties, so no,

00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:02.880
we had cousins and stuff.

00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:06.720
19 63, 19 64,

00:18:07.110 --> 00:18:11.000
that was when the raids and the
fishings really kind of started.

00:18:11.030 --> 00:18:14.320
They wanted to have a demonstration down
here to show folks what was happening

00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:16.000
and then they went down to Olympia,

00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:29.770
the game wardens,

00:18:29.870 --> 00:18:32.680
they were coming down here at night so
nobody could see what was happening.

00:18:33.030 --> 00:18:36.120
Well, the fish ins and the demonstrations,
those were just show everybody,

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:37.800
the state of Washington, the public,

00:18:37.800 --> 00:18:41.040
whoever wanted to come out and see and
witness this and open their eyes to what

00:18:41.040 --> 00:18:41.870
was going on.

00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:47.800
The object was getting in front of
the feds to reaffirm our treat that

00:18:47.800 --> 00:18:49.440
we had the right to be out there.

00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:51.080
We're all arrested.

00:18:54.030 --> 00:18:58.680
They have your arms behind you
and then they pick you up by your

00:18:59.060 --> 00:19:03.640
wrists and it just tears your
shoulders right out of the

00:19:03.780 --> 00:19:04.610
socket.

00:19:05.550 --> 00:19:09.440
Even those of us that didn't
get smacked with clubs,

00:19:10.090 --> 00:19:13.520
which of course I did,

00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:19.520
it was painful and inconvenient and
really scary because I was looking

00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:21.840
at 35 years in prison,

00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:26.040
but I was very surprised
that I wasn't killed.

00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:30.880
So 35 years I might be
able to live 35 years.

00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:42.800
There was a lot of thought
behind how we take this

00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:48.920
from these instances that
weren't very well covered to

00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.080
having them become well covered.

00:19:53.020 --> 00:19:56.560
On the Puyallup River, there
was a camp, a tribal fishermen,

00:19:56.860 --> 00:20:01.480
it was a staging point for demonstrations
and they would send people out fish

00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:06.400
and then they would get bashed and
hauled away and it was all a way to get

00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.280
press coverage and the like.

00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:13.560
I wanted the press to
be able to get there.

00:20:13.800 --> 00:20:18.400
I wanted a CLU and people
from the universities

00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:22.240
to be able to get there.
That's why I wanted a camp.

00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:25.880
And of course in the sixties you had
the civil rights movement going on.

00:20:26.130 --> 00:20:31.000
Billy and his cohorts
recognized that they could use

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.840
that to their benefit. He went and talked
to Martin Luther King, for example,

00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:41.000
to get some advice on how to
address this civil rights issue.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:42.000
That is what it was.

00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:46.360
We had a real direct
connection to LA and Hollywood.

00:20:47.180 --> 00:20:48.880
You go from Marlon Brando,

00:20:49.390 --> 00:20:54.160
Dick Gregory and it became more
public, right? They weren't clubbing.

00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:55.960
Marlon Brando over the head.

00:20:56.510 --> 00:20:59.880
That just brought more press and the
more press they could bring to the issue.

00:21:00.050 --> 00:21:04.480
There was a lot of support
for civil rights and

00:21:05.030 --> 00:21:06.720
they cashed in on that, if you will.

00:21:10.740 --> 00:21:14.200
The morning that that camp was busted,

00:21:14.860 --> 00:21:19.640
people from A CLU swam
across the Puyallup River

00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:24.720
to get to the camp so
they could witness a Vista

00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:29.840
lawyer drove from Seattle and he came

00:21:29.970 --> 00:21:34.880
right up and he was standing
right up on the railroad tracks

00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:39.520
when the National Rifle
Association was taking pot shots

00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:41.680
at us from across the river.

00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:45.080
There was a barrel of a gun like this.

00:21:45.820 --> 00:21:49.080
The pig pulled the trigger. Well,

00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.680
I thought I was being shot,

00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:54.920
but it was a gas canister,

00:21:55.710 --> 00:21:58.720
shot a damn gas canister. I said,

00:21:58.870 --> 00:22:01.600
tear gas don't bother us Indians.

00:22:02.600 --> 00:22:07.280
I kicked it back at them
and started trying to pull

00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:12.400
one of the gas masks off the
guy's face that had shot it

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:17.000
at me and it started a
game of kick the canister.

00:22:17.780 --> 00:22:22.760
All these Indians were jumping
on the Tacoma police pulling

00:22:22.810 --> 00:22:26.840
their masks off and the police were like.

00:22:31.460 --> 00:22:35.320
But the turning point was the state
one day decided to come down on that

00:22:35.320 --> 00:22:36.150
encampment.

00:22:37.340 --> 00:22:41.680
We burned one of their bridges. Well,

00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.320
it's Korea salt treated,
so when it burned,

00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:48.520
it threw up a huge black plume of smoke

00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:52.560
and I said, that's just
our smoke signal for help.

00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:57.720
All those different branches
of enforcement started.

00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:00.920
Firing tear gas. Well,

00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:05.920
the US attorney happened to be there
that day talking to the tribes and he

00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:06.750
got tear gassed.

00:23:07.020 --> 00:23:11.320
So he went to Portland and he
recommended to his superiors,

00:23:11.780 --> 00:23:15.360
we take this case on United
States versus Washington.

00:23:15.950 --> 00:23:20.600
That was the real turning point in
the United States on behalf of the

00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:22.280
tribes to go to the courts.

00:23:47.030 --> 00:23:50.640
Back then in the seventies, we didn't
think of ourselves as nation building.

00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:55.720
We were just fighting for a cultural
traditional way of life that we felt was

00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.400
ingrained in the treaties itself.

00:24:00.220 --> 00:24:04.720
So we weren't asking for a specific
allotment or any land or anything else.

00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:11.160
All we wanted to do was be
able to exercise our treaty
rights or to be able to

00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.080
fish and hunt in our usual
and the custom grounds.

00:24:26.070 --> 00:24:30.850
So when the US attorney out of the
solicitor's office in Portland,

00:24:30.990 --> 00:24:35.690
George DeHart said he
wanted to bring a case to

00:24:35.870 --> 00:24:39.850
affirm the treaty fishing rights
of all the tribes in Puget Sound.

00:24:41.650 --> 00:24:44.330
I said, sign me on, sign our firm on

00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:52.170
away We went getting experts and
witnesses and facts and figures and

00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:54.130
exhibits. Who knows what all.

00:24:54.670 --> 00:24:58.730
So the United States brought the decision
and then tribes intervened and we had

00:24:59.110 --> 00:25:02.610
the whole Macaw muffle
shoot, quale, Puyallup,

00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:06.770
Kunal and ish were the
original interveners.

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.730
Then you had the Ute
Sowa, squawk, Squamish,

00:25:11.730 --> 00:25:14.570
upper Skagit, Lummi. Then Yakima came in

00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:21.210
of those A were represented
by legal services and

00:25:21.210 --> 00:25:25.890
that shows the lack of
resources those tribes had and

00:25:26.130 --> 00:25:28.290
I think it shows the courage
they had to go forward.

00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:33.930
And so we went to a meeting of all the
attorneys for all of the other tribes

00:25:34.750 --> 00:25:38.330
and they were saying, well, if we get 5%,

00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:42.810
that'll be good because they're
only 1% of the population

00:25:43.270 --> 00:25:48.090
and these were all white
people representing tribes

00:25:48.790 --> 00:25:53.410
and none of the tribal people even
went to the meeting. I told them,

00:25:54.430 --> 00:25:57.890
you have nothing to
compromise. You have nothing.

00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:00.410
None of this belongs to us.

00:26:00.550 --> 00:26:05.210
It belongs to our future generations
and they're going to read

00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:06.290
what we say here.

00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:18.810
Kalt joined along with a dozen
other Western Washington tribes,

00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:23.530
but their DC attorneys convinced
them that they should get out,

00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.730
told them, look, it's weak. It's
a weak case to get out of it.

00:26:28.710 --> 00:26:31.370
You're going to suffer if
you stay in this litigation.

00:26:31.750 --> 00:26:34.730
Things at the time were so desperate.

00:26:38.750 --> 00:26:43.720
The fishery was regarded as
a huge part of the economy of

00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:48.640
this region and had been for some
time and the Puyallup tribe's butt

00:26:48.700 --> 00:26:53.320
has been kicked three times real hard
by the United States Supreme Court

00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:56.080
and they filed a petition to withdraw

00:26:59.150 --> 00:27:02.330
and here was this white guy
from Montana, judge Bolt.

00:27:05.630 --> 00:27:06.850
Who were scared to death.

00:27:08.230 --> 00:27:12.970
He was appointed by Nixon and we
thought, here comes a right winger.

00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:15.250
We're in big trouble.
We're in big trouble.

00:27:15.910 --> 00:27:19.210
He was not very sympathetic
to those who broke the law.

00:27:20.010 --> 00:27:24.730
A lot of our clients were deeply into

00:27:24.930 --> 00:27:28.370
breaking law. They were
notable for breaking law.

00:27:29.090 --> 00:27:30.330
A guy like Billy Frank,

00:27:30.870 --> 00:27:35.610
that's what they were doing and he'd
put away some union leaders that he

00:27:35.830 --> 00:27:39.010
had sentenced so scary for us.

00:27:39.870 --> 00:27:41.090
Now looking back on it,

00:27:41.310 --> 00:27:46.170
you could see that Judge Bolt
maintained a huge interest

00:27:46.170 --> 00:27:50.850
in what he was hearing from the
tribes and he chastised the state

00:27:51.050 --> 00:27:54.730
attorneys a lot, so that should
have been a key right there too

00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.010
with the tribes. There was the main
US attorney that was Stu Pearson.

00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:03.930
Then there was an interior solicitor.

00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:06.730
Diar was his name.

00:28:06.990 --> 00:28:11.730
He was a key participant and then
there were quite a few tribal

00:28:11.970 --> 00:28:15.770
attorneys that represented individual
tribes or groups of tribes and so yeah,

00:28:15.850 --> 00:28:17.010
they were all a team

00:28:21.350 --> 00:28:25.370
so impressed with the quality of the
US attorney and the tribal attorneys,

00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:27.930
topnotch really smart people.

00:28:30.790 --> 00:28:34.730
In the evening we would go back to a
hotel and we would work till midnight

00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:39.410
hashing out the testimony
that had happened that day
and the plans for the next

00:28:39.430 --> 00:28:43.810
day and the intelligence of that
group of attorneys who didn't know

00:28:44.370 --> 00:28:49.330
anything about fish and they
were able to absorb what we would

00:28:49.330 --> 00:28:53.770
tell them and turn that
back in the next day to

00:28:54.030 --> 00:28:58.890
cross-examination and very intelligent
questions back to those same people

00:28:58.950 --> 00:29:01.250
on the stand and that impressed me.

00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:07.990
Well,

00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:12.410
the attorney general's office
exhibited its worst tendencies

00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:17.730
thinking up every legal angle
they could to disavow the treaty

00:29:18.710 --> 00:29:21.650
and Slade Gordon, not to his credit,

00:29:22.830 --> 00:29:27.730
he was leading it. They came up that
treaties are not self-executing.

00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:32.890
That means they're no effect
unless there's legislation after

00:29:32.950 --> 00:29:36.810
the treaty to implement them. What
does that mean? I didn't get that.

00:29:37.270 --> 00:29:40.810
That's a gobbledygook and
the courts basically said,

00:29:40.830 --> 00:29:45.800
so the treaties made under the
constitution are the supreme law of the

00:29:45.800 --> 00:29:48.080
land. End of story.

00:29:50.860 --> 00:29:52.680
The state made several mistakes.

00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:56.560
One was as their main
fisheries science guy,

00:29:56.750 --> 00:29:58.440
they picked a well-known,

00:29:59.310 --> 00:30:03.120
very reputable professor from
University of Washington,

00:30:03.730 --> 00:30:07.720
which was a good idea except that

00:30:08.740 --> 00:30:12.240
the professor and his
sons ran a fishing boat,

00:30:13.210 --> 00:30:16.840
commercial fishing boat,
obvious conflict of interest,

00:30:17.820 --> 00:30:22.080
and Pearson, I could see
him now, he was salivating.

00:30:22.950 --> 00:30:26.680
Well, I get that guy on the
witness stand and he did.

00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:28.080
He just tore 'em to pieces.

00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:33.400
The state management was a good old boys
club, especially the game department.

00:30:35.190 --> 00:30:40.120
They had the sport fishing community
in their pocket and the tribes

00:30:40.120 --> 00:30:44.880
were the enemy and I don't know that it
was racism. Their position was racist.

00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:47.760
Yeah, it might've been
racism to some extent.

00:30:48.020 --> 00:30:51.920
It was These people are
not our people. It was.

00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.920
More one of one in control. We
are the people who can do this,

00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:58.640
who can run this fishery,

00:30:59.100 --> 00:31:04.000
and we've been doing it since we got
here and took it away from these people.

00:31:04.510 --> 00:31:07.680
They were trying to make it look
like the tribes weren't capable,

00:31:08.230 --> 00:31:11.240
that they were harvesting fish
that were needed for conservation.

00:31:12.790 --> 00:31:16.240
They testified in one way or
another that first of all,

00:31:16.460 --> 00:31:21.200
the other tribes were incompetent
and so the state had to be

00:31:21.840 --> 00:31:22.680
involved here.

00:31:26.560 --> 00:31:29.660
The state was lying through their teeth,

00:31:31.360 --> 00:31:32.900
so every time you caught a fish,

00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:36.980
you marked your catch record card and
then they would collect the sampling of

00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:41.700
those catch record cards and project
an estimate of the total catch.

00:31:42.010 --> 00:31:45.900
Well, the state would have none of
that says We don't estimate, we count.

00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:51.540
It was that kind of bullshit. I said, no,

00:31:51.540 --> 00:31:55.340
you're not counting. You're estimating.
You're not counting every single fish.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.020
You're counting a sample of the fish
and then you are projecting a total.

00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:03.060
That's an estimate. It was that
kind of stuff that was going on,

00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:04.140
so from my perspective,

00:32:05.020 --> 00:32:09.740
I was literally trying to ferret out

00:32:10.130 --> 00:32:14.460
what was true and what was not true and
making sure the attorneys knew that.

00:32:20.600 --> 00:32:23.420
The key part of USV Washington,

00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:28.500
the litigation before Judge
Bold was that Oke got back into

00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.780
the case, but they got back in late,

00:32:32.800 --> 00:32:34.140
so we came last.

00:32:34.520 --> 00:32:38.780
The whole trial had gone
and then the Alts came.

00:32:39.630 --> 00:32:44.560
That turned out to be a huge
advantage because Quinalt was

00:32:44.560 --> 00:32:49.000
heavy into fisheries. Not only
were they regulating fisheries,

00:32:49.350 --> 00:32:51.720
they had a federal hatchery
on the reservation.

00:32:52.070 --> 00:32:55.960
They had a tribal hatchery
and they had a fisheries

00:32:56.590 --> 00:33:01.280
enforcement regime on the
reservations and they held those

00:33:01.460 --> 00:33:06.000
up as the paradigm for
the alt reservation.

00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:08.120
At the end of the case,

00:33:09.220 --> 00:33:13.720
in came the alts and they brought
in their PhD fisheries biologists.

00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:15.170
We even had,

00:33:17.580 --> 00:33:22.040
we decided Judge Bolt
needed to see an Indian in

00:33:22.190 --> 00:33:23.020
uniform,

00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:27.920
so we brought Clifford Buddy Moic in his

00:33:28.620 --> 00:33:29.760
patrol uniform.

00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:35.520
He would come up to the bar
and asked permission to give me

00:33:35.520 --> 00:33:39.720
something. Now, what he was
giving me was an empty file,

00:33:40.300 --> 00:33:44.520
but he was showing Judge
Bolt an Indian in uniform.

00:33:45.260 --> 00:33:49.440
It was a big deal and it
did impress Judge Bolt.

00:33:49.950 --> 00:33:54.920
What happened was the state
failed to prove that the

00:33:55.270 --> 00:33:59.720
Kals weren't handling their
responsibilities as a fisheries manager

00:33:59.830 --> 00:34:03.480
appropriately, and the
Kals proved that they were.

00:34:09.050 --> 00:34:13.560
Judge Bolt delivered opinion on
Lincoln's birthday On February 74,

00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:17.800
of course, we start reading it. I.

00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:21.760
Became lightheaded reading it. I

00:34:24.160 --> 00:34:27.680
had to go and sit down and I was shaking,

00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:33.000
couldn't really explain it
except I said we won and we won

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:33.830
everything.

00:34:38.770 --> 00:34:42.560
Judge Bo ruled that the treaty
rights were the supreme law,

00:34:42.580 --> 00:34:46.000
the land and trumped state
law. This is monumental.

00:34:46.430 --> 00:34:51.320
This is a game changer that
tribes were governments and had

00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.920
a right to organize their governments and
take over their fishery and manage it.

00:34:56.620 --> 00:34:59.360
We won. We won the case.

00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:05.760
He ruled that there was an
allocation, the 50 50 allocation,

00:35:06.110 --> 00:35:09.120
they got the authority to
manage their own fisheries,

00:35:09.580 --> 00:35:14.520
but the big win I think was for
the tribes as governments and the

00:35:14.520 --> 00:35:15.960
recognition of their treaty. Right.

00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:32.560
I don't think us in the
northwest can give the bold

00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:37.560
decision enough credit for
elevating our governmental

00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:38.620
standing.

00:35:38.620 --> 00:35:43.520
The recognition that these treaties were
contracts between sovereign nations.

00:35:44.100 --> 00:35:47.920
To me, that's when our culture started
to come alive, started to come back.

00:35:48.340 --> 00:35:53.280
The Bolt decision has really
introduced new ways for tribes to

00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.040
exercise sovereignty and self-governance.

00:35:57.460 --> 00:36:01.320
And began the journey for nation building.

00:36:06.460 --> 00:36:10.920
The tribal government in the early
seventies was barely as important

00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:16.200
as the Elks Club in SBO
and most tribes were

00:36:16.470 --> 00:36:17.300
poor.

00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.840
I think the first thoughts
when the decision came down in

00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:27.200
1974 was what the heck is this
and how are we ever going to

00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:31.200
do anything because we
didn't have any money.

00:36:34.020 --> 00:36:38.560
The tribal leaders of the day created
immediately the Northwest Indian Fish

00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:39.390
Commission.

00:36:40.160 --> 00:36:44.720
I was one of the first employees
and our job was to go around helping

00:36:45.060 --> 00:36:49.840
tribes to understand what their
responsibilities were under the

00:36:50.080 --> 00:36:50.820
decision.

00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:54.040
You have to write the ordinances,
you have to make the penalties,

00:36:54.040 --> 00:36:56.840
you have to create your enforcement,
you have to be the court.

00:36:57.100 --> 00:37:00.160
We learn, and I learn it's complicated.

00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:11.480
As far as judge bolt's concerned,
I think when he was born,

00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:13.840
the store should have stayed at his
house and he should have flew away.

00:37:16.950 --> 00:37:17.240
Well,

00:37:17.240 --> 00:37:20.640
we didn't believe our government would
let something like this happen to him,

00:37:20.910 --> 00:37:22.280
just normal working people.

00:37:22.740 --> 00:37:23.680
I'm going to continue fishing.

00:37:26.900 --> 00:37:31.080
The state essentially refused
to acknowledge the decision.

00:37:31.620 --> 00:37:32.450
The state.

00:37:33.120 --> 00:37:35.600
Consistently belittled.

00:37:35.900 --> 00:37:40.120
The tribes didn't think
we could manage anything,

00:37:40.750 --> 00:37:43.880
even if the decision stood in some form,

00:37:43.890 --> 00:37:46.320
which they didn't think
was going to happen.

00:37:47.390 --> 00:37:52.360
Most of us feel that we should not
abide meekly by the boat decision.

00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:56.360
By so doing, we legitimize
something that we think is wrong,

00:37:56.990 --> 00:38:01.480
therefore we feel it
almost at duty not to go

00:38:02.020 --> 00:38:03.720
by. The boat decision is out as sacred.

00:38:04.220 --> 00:38:06.880
And shortly after the
decision was rendered,

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.320
they were standing out there
burning Judge Bolden effigy.

00:38:11.310 --> 00:38:12.200
They had 'em hanging.

00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:18.800
And right out here in Commencement
Bay, they had their own fishings.

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:23.480
They defied the judge's order and
they actively fished out here.

00:38:25.550 --> 00:38:29.800
They turned the whole idea
of civil disobedience around.

00:38:30.490 --> 00:38:31.680
Civil rights. Yeah, well,

00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:34.480
I mean we just actually lost and we
don't have any more rights period.

00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:37.360
I mean we don't have
any civil rights left.

00:38:37.790 --> 00:38:41.360
I've always been very proud
of my husband's work and
all of a sudden we're the

00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:41.890
bad guys.

00:38:41.890 --> 00:38:45.800
We're taking something away from the
poor Indian who's never had anything.

00:38:50.060 --> 00:38:52.310
Well, there's more area to fish.
It just gives us more area.

00:38:52.610 --> 00:38:56.430
The boat decision has. That's how
it has affected my tribe I feel,

00:38:56.570 --> 00:39:01.070
and for the first time I've been
able to up my standard of living.

00:39:03.930 --> 00:39:07.750
So one of the first things that the
Northwest Indian Fish Commission did,

00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:12.590
they staffed up with biologists
to assist tribes in putting

00:39:12.680 --> 00:39:16.750
those units in place,
the enforcement piece,

00:39:16.850 --> 00:39:18.030
the original staffing.

00:39:18.090 --> 00:39:22.910
We did have one staffer that went from
tribe to tribe and helped them build

00:39:22.910 --> 00:39:24.590
their enforcement capacity.

00:39:24.970 --> 00:39:29.950
So we basically developed
a a starter kit with regard

00:39:29.950 --> 00:39:34.950
to fishery manage responsibilities, so
we started recruiting left and right.

00:39:35.010 --> 00:39:39.510
We started looking out to the University
of Washington and some of the other

00:39:39.510 --> 00:39:44.150
universities had strong fishery programs
watching for people, advertising.

00:39:44.330 --> 00:39:46.270
We had a little bit of
resource to start recruiting.

00:39:46.330 --> 00:39:50.910
We were very blessed in that we had
a number of individuals who had that

00:39:50.910 --> 00:39:53.350
background and they wanted
to work for the tribes.

00:39:54.010 --> 00:39:58.150
We hired a small staff of biologists
that started working directly with

00:39:58.150 --> 00:40:03.030
individual tribes to help them develop
their fisheries management capabilities.

00:40:03.290 --> 00:40:06.390
The mere fact the tribes
gain the expertise,

00:40:07.100 --> 00:40:11.470
gain the experts participated in
the management and managed well,

00:40:12.100 --> 00:40:14.870
propelled them in my judgment
to be self-regulating.

00:40:15.220 --> 00:40:18.870
It's enabled me to go out and
actually make some money at it,

00:40:18.980 --> 00:40:22.510
make a living at it instead
of just fair weather wages.

00:40:22.930 --> 00:40:27.470
The best numbers we could ever come up
with when we started the case was that at

00:40:27.470 --> 00:40:32.470
most they were catching 2% of
the fish before the case and

00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:35.670
the year after the case they caught 50%.

00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:44.070
This is the Macaw dock.

00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:50.110
Today it's probably about a little over
400 tribal members participate in our

00:40:50.110 --> 00:40:50.940
fisheries.

00:40:51.570 --> 00:40:56.470
It is the largest employer in
terms of what it generates in

00:40:56.470 --> 00:41:01.030
the economy is anywhere from six to $10
million come into the community through

00:41:01.030 --> 00:41:05.670
fishing activities and that
by far exceeds any other

00:41:06.790 --> 00:41:08.470
economic engine and revenue for the tribe.

00:41:12.410 --> 00:41:16.550
So you did see a pretty big impact in the
bay where there was less work fishing,

00:41:16.660 --> 00:41:20.750
less commercial fishing and us
just getting started. Basically,

00:41:20.930 --> 00:41:24.270
we were just getting our fleet starting
to build back up after the boat

00:41:24.590 --> 00:41:25.170
decision.

00:41:25.170 --> 00:41:30.150
We in no way intend to help implement the
boat decision because we feel the boat

00:41:30.390 --> 00:41:32.310
decision is wrong.
Inherently to begin with.

00:41:37.560 --> 00:41:40.800
I was the president of the Washington
State Commercial Passenger Fishing Vessel

00:41:40.910 --> 00:41:42.000
Owner's Association,

00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:47.240
and we attempted to intervene
and challenge the outcome
of the bulk decision.

00:41:47.540 --> 00:41:49.600
You cannot make a living no way.

00:41:49.700 --> 00:41:54.200
You can't even catch enough fish to
pay your insurance on the boat and your

00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:56.480
gear, but you don't get
enough time to fish.

00:41:56.900 --> 00:42:01.680
It wasn't the tribal
fisheries that I was upset

00:42:01.680 --> 00:42:02.100
with.

00:42:02.100 --> 00:42:05.800
It was the fact that I was going to be
restricted in a manner that was going to

00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:09.080
inhibit my ability to continue
the way of life I had chose.

00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:14.760
I can remember parades of
protestors marching down the street.

00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:19.720
I can remember the harbor being blocked
by trawlers tying their boats up

00:42:19.870 --> 00:42:22.840
side by side so no one could
get in or out of Westport.

00:42:23.050 --> 00:42:26.200
Their livelihoods were being
essential just taken away.

00:42:26.980 --> 00:42:30.080
The state hasn't got the authority
to enforce the boat decision,

00:42:30.860 --> 00:42:35.400
so until they do or until it's forced
upon 'em by the federal government,

00:42:37.490 --> 00:42:40.000
we'll still continue to fish
and we'll have our rights.

00:42:40.430 --> 00:42:45.200
Massive amounts of fish in those
early days of the year were taken by

00:42:45.200 --> 00:42:47.080
illegal salmon fishermen.

00:42:48.020 --> 00:42:52.720
One fisherman claimed that he
made a hundred thousand dollars in

00:42:52.910 --> 00:42:57.720
illegal sales in 78 or
79. One of those years.

00:42:58.150 --> 00:43:02.720
They were just finding any way
they could to protest the outcome

00:43:03.540 --> 00:43:06.600
and the loss of a lot of their fishery.

00:43:07.060 --> 00:43:11.960
As a result of that decision and
fear of that kind of loss brings

00:43:12.100 --> 00:43:13.760
out severe reaction.

00:43:14.020 --> 00:43:17.600
You look out on Hood Canal and
it looked like a city out there.

00:43:17.790 --> 00:43:20.320
There's just boats as
far as the eye could see,

00:43:20.540 --> 00:43:23.640
and those were illegal fishermen.

00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:25.880
It was an ugly, ugly time,

00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:31.160
but a lot of it was part of their
family tradition and their fathers and

00:43:31.160 --> 00:43:36.040
grandfathers had been in the fisheries
and it was being wiped out, taken away.

00:43:36.470 --> 00:43:38.960
Well, the bold decision in the last
two years, I haven't made a dime.

00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:43.720
I've lost money on my boat and there's
no way I can keep on going because

00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.360
I have to sell my boat back to the
buyback in order to get out of business.

00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:49.560
If I don't, I'm going to be broke.

00:43:49.850 --> 00:43:54.320
There were at one time some 650,000
licensed sport fishermen in this state and

00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:56.280
it's now down to about 450,000.

00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:59.040
They're dropping out at the rate of about
a hundred thousand a year according to

00:43:59.040 --> 00:44:03.040
the game department. Due
to the bolt decision,

00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:08.160
our livelihood is simply going to be

00:44:08.160 --> 00:44:10.160
non-existent with the bolt decision.

00:44:14.890 --> 00:44:18.680
Slade Gordon continually told
them that it would be reversed,

00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:21.080
so there's no need to pay attention to it.

00:44:23.100 --> 00:44:24.560
He was a state attorney general.

00:44:25.700 --> 00:44:30.600
He fought the bolt decision
from day one and believed that

00:44:30.600 --> 00:44:31.430
he could change it.

00:44:32.270 --> 00:44:33.800
Well, he was certainly the villain.

00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:37.350
Gordon.

00:44:37.350 --> 00:44:40.320
Basically issued the war plan,

00:44:41.930 --> 00:44:46.280
which was to fight everything and he
unleashed a couple of his deputies to

00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:48.760
battle every little dinky
thing that happened.

00:44:49.140 --> 00:44:53.200
We have been challenging this
in the courts at every step.

00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:58.880
Openings of a fishery over the
definitions of gear over how many

00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:02.360
fishermen could go out and
so on and so on and so on.

00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:03.640
It was just an endless battle.

00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:05.310
Slay Gordon.

00:45:05.860 --> 00:45:10.640
He dragged our tribe end accord
over and over again and got his

00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:12.040
ass kicked every time.

00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:20.920
The prevailing perspective
was that it's not fair.

00:45:21.260 --> 00:45:25.560
How can you interpret their treaty
right to mean that they get 50% of the

00:45:25.560 --> 00:45:26.640
harvestable fish?

00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:30.200
Our constitutional rights gives
all the people the rights,

00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:34.040
not a preferred group of
people, special rights.

00:45:34.460 --> 00:45:35.160
He, I think,

00:45:35.160 --> 00:45:39.840
truly believed that through his
efforts as Attorney General that

00:45:39.980 --> 00:45:42.000
he could change the outcome
of the bull decision.

00:45:42.380 --> 00:45:46.640
Do you see this as a kind of legal
gorilla warfare? Yes, definitely.

00:45:47.100 --> 00:45:49.600
That's your strategy,
that's your intent. Yes.

00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:52.440
We all know in our minds it's bad law.

00:45:53.610 --> 00:45:58.520
Judge would rule something and the state
would ignore it and we'd have to go

00:45:58.520 --> 00:46:02.000
to court until the judge,
they're ignoring what you said.

00:46:02.910 --> 00:46:06.040
Well, I can't remember. I think
it was 76 or around there.

00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:11.040
Judge Bolt was forced to take federal
control over the state fisheries

00:46:11.270 --> 00:46:14.640
because the state refused
to implement the decision,

00:46:15.060 --> 00:46:18.760
so he took the jurisdiction away
from the state. That was huge.

00:46:19.220 --> 00:46:24.040
He just basically said, okay, from
now on, the feds are going to do it.

00:46:24.180 --> 00:46:29.080
All the federal agencies are going
to take over Washington Fisheries.

00:46:29.660 --> 00:46:34.480
And he called in US Marshals from
all over the nation who had to

00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:38.360
go out and motor around
out in Puget Sound,

00:46:38.910 --> 00:46:43.800
tell commercial fishermen they
were violating an injunction of a

00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:48.320
federal court and hand them the
injunction, hand it to 'em right there.

00:46:49.740 --> 00:46:54.520
And Slade used the Supreme
Court to try to stop what

00:46:54.520 --> 00:46:56.120
Judge Bolt had put in place.

00:46:58.140 --> 00:47:03.080
And so I let out as a lead lawyer
to the Supreme Court thing.

00:47:03.160 --> 00:47:08.000
I remember I think most though was
the endless discussion of what in

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.480
common with met because that's
something Gordon had pressed hard on

00:47:13.110 --> 00:47:18.080
that in common with Met the Indians
should fish just like the white

00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:21.520
people, exactly where
the white people fished,

00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:27.080
so the same rules that white people
have from the state and that's what

00:47:27.260 --> 00:47:28.400
in common with men.

00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:33.080
The big crux of the bolt decision
is where the words in common,

00:47:33.370 --> 00:47:37.640
which Bolt has decided means 50%
that all the fish go to the Indians.

00:47:38.220 --> 00:47:40.240
It wouldn't make any
sense at all to use 50%.

00:47:40.240 --> 00:47:44.080
If you're supposed to have
10 or 15 different tribes
using one school in common,

00:47:44.080 --> 00:47:46.400
that means you'd probably have six, 700%,

00:47:47.140 --> 00:47:49.960
so I can't quite understand the reasoning.

00:47:50.420 --> 00:47:53.400
And we put that idea down.
That was not what it meant.

00:47:54.140 --> 00:47:58.880
The line of law that came from England
will also fish in common with them

00:47:59.580 --> 00:48:03.480
and that means each side gets 50%.

00:48:11.260 --> 00:48:15.280
We won and I think I fell
on the floor or something.

00:48:15.720 --> 00:48:17.640
I mean I expected to win. I wanted to win,

00:48:17.660 --> 00:48:21.800
but to hear that you actually
had a course was a big moment.

00:48:30.860 --> 00:48:35.680
And you never think that after
a case like that you'd be hit so

00:48:35.680 --> 00:48:36.510
hard With the racism.

00:48:39.610 --> 00:48:43.880
There are people who cannot
stand the thought that

00:48:44.230 --> 00:48:48.840
Indians have a treaty that gives
them a right to fish that the state

00:48:48.930 --> 00:48:49.760
can't touch.

00:48:50.550 --> 00:48:53.480
Well, when we're fishing
out in broad daylight,

00:48:54.030 --> 00:48:57.840
there's a bluff that's
above the mouth of the elah

00:48:59.580 --> 00:49:01.920
and I don't want to say
what color people are,

00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:05.000
but they're non-tribal
shooting at us from the Bluffs.

00:49:05.830 --> 00:49:07.040
That was a big change.

00:49:07.990 --> 00:49:10.160
That they were actually
actively trying to stop you.

00:49:10.830 --> 00:49:14.120
They were shooting at us. I don't
know if none of us ever got hit,

00:49:14.180 --> 00:49:16.560
but it was a fairly common event.

00:49:20.420 --> 00:49:23.640
It didn't make for wanting
to be a fisherman very much.

00:49:24.340 --> 00:49:28.400
If you have to really worry about
being shot or have rocks thrown at you

00:49:29.180 --> 00:49:32.160
or names being called at
you, it was a horrible time.

00:49:32.750 --> 00:49:37.520
There's a bridge that was very popular
with throwing bales of hay wrapped

00:49:37.520 --> 00:49:41.000
with barbed wire off of the
bridge to get into our nets.

00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:46.240
Remember one time there was somebody
standing up there walking across and when

00:49:46.240 --> 00:49:48.360
you see somebody up there,
it means it's a bad thing.

00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:51.160
They want to drop something
on you or do something evil.

00:49:51.750 --> 00:49:56.640
That was just five years ago, so that
fear still lives in a lot of fishermen.

00:49:58.110 --> 00:50:02.400
That had been shot at before on the
river and pepper with Birdshot in the

00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:03.210
summer.

00:50:03.210 --> 00:50:08.120
We've had our equipment vandalized before
and people throw rocks at us verbally

00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:09.130
and literally.

00:50:10.180 --> 00:50:12.200
They'd cut our nets loose,
cut our boats loose.

00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:15.680
You had to stay with
your gear to protect it.

00:50:17.500 --> 00:50:20.840
As I grew up, I experienced it
myself. I'm about 12 years old.

00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:23.080
I'd be fishing with my
father for co-host salmon.

00:50:23.130 --> 00:50:26.400
We're beach sanding in an area called
Zangle Cobe. Next thing you know,

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:27.910
my father tells me, get on the boat.

00:50:27.910 --> 00:50:30.920
When I hear in the background there's
going to be some dead Indians.

00:50:32.150 --> 00:50:34.520
This is after the bull
decision. It was shocking to me.

00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:38.720
The first time I heard somebody
screaming at me when I was on the river.

00:50:41.260 --> 00:50:42.090
It was hard.

00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:47.080
I think the pain of our
ancestors came through there.

00:50:55.170 --> 00:51:00.150
One thing that I would like to get away
from is the state constantly sending us

00:51:00.150 --> 00:51:04.430
letters and telling us to close this
and they're going to open that They no

00:51:04.630 --> 00:51:06.750
longer have the right to do this.

00:51:15.930 --> 00:51:17.510
The decade following the decision,

00:51:17.970 --> 00:51:22.790
it was characterized by flagrant
violations of the decision by the

00:51:23.070 --> 00:51:27.470
state constant court hearings
lawsuit after lawsuit.

00:51:28.290 --> 00:51:29.390
At the end of that decade,

00:51:29.670 --> 00:51:34.150
I think the last couple of years of
that decade annually there was like 125

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.230
court hearings, so we were in court.

00:51:39.600 --> 00:51:42.830
Every week. The atmosphere
was very antagonistic.

00:51:43.690 --> 00:51:48.470
The state did not trust, I would say
tribal biologists me for example.

00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:52.830
They didn't trust the data that was being
brought to the table and they didn't

00:51:52.830 --> 00:51:55.350
accept the policy positions
that the tribes were bringing.

00:51:55.650 --> 00:51:56.630
We were always in court.

00:51:56.690 --> 00:52:00.550
Either they'd take us to court
or we'd take them to court.

00:52:01.020 --> 00:52:05.950
What Bill Wilkerson realized
was that the state was losing

00:52:06.150 --> 00:52:10.350
'em right and left. They were
losing 90 some percent of 'em.

00:52:12.730 --> 00:52:14.550
In 1981,

00:52:15.470 --> 00:52:20.350
I was asked to go be the
deputy director in the

00:52:20.350 --> 00:52:21.390
change of administration.

00:52:22.190 --> 00:52:26.750
I really didn't understand why
people were fighting each other.

00:52:26.950 --> 00:52:30.790
I mean it was the law of the
land and I started forming

00:52:32.070 --> 00:52:36.750
a view that the state probably
needed to implement that law

00:52:37.490 --> 00:52:42.230
and Bolt had always said he wanted
the two parties to work these

00:52:42.230 --> 00:52:44.070
problems out. Bill had.

00:52:44.070 --> 00:52:47.230
To put his foot down in
the department and say,

00:52:47.490 --> 00:52:50.830
you're either with me with
co-management or you can get out.

00:52:51.730 --> 00:52:55.390
We need people that want to work with
the tribes and not fight the tribes.

00:52:55.530 --> 00:52:56.790
That's basically what he said.

00:52:57.390 --> 00:52:58.950
I went to Billy and I said,

00:52:59.670 --> 00:53:04.550
I think we could manage the
resource better together than we

00:53:04.550 --> 00:53:05.380
are right now,

00:53:05.810 --> 00:53:09.590
and that was the true
start of co-management.

00:53:15.020 --> 00:53:16.670
Well, if we didn't have the bull decision,

00:53:16.770 --> 00:53:20.910
we wouldn't have of course the right to
fish and we wouldn't have the right to

00:53:20.910 --> 00:53:25.840
be co-managers of that. Fish and
co-management in Elwa is preserving,

00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:27.760
protecting what runs we have.

00:53:28.470 --> 00:53:30.200
Co-management was a huge deal.

00:53:30.510 --> 00:53:33.520
Co-management became a
coast wide phenomenon.

00:53:34.040 --> 00:53:38.200
I think we're all starting to get at the
table trying to work things out here.

00:53:39.020 --> 00:53:40.600
We have to work together to make it work.

00:53:44.540 --> 00:53:47.960
The State Department had a lot
of change it needed to make,

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:53.560
I had a really tough job. There
was a lot of opposition on my side.

00:53:54.490 --> 00:53:58.040
Let's just say that most of the people
in the department didn't seem very much

00:53:58.040 --> 00:54:01.840
interested in relationships.

00:54:04.620 --> 00:54:08.880
Tribes kept winning all these
sub proceedings under both,

00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:13.120
so the courts basically forced
them into co-management.

00:54:13.740 --> 00:54:16.880
We didn't believe their scientists,
they didn't believe ours,

00:54:17.780 --> 00:54:19.360
so there was a lot of mistrust.

00:54:19.660 --> 00:54:24.360
And I never understood why we weren't
sharing data and why the court wasn't

00:54:24.590 --> 00:54:27.240
requiring us to share
data with each other.

00:54:27.470 --> 00:54:29.160
Wilkerson did not beat around the bush.

00:54:30.700 --> 00:54:35.520
People who couldn't effectively work
in that new environment found new

00:54:35.520 --> 00:54:36.350
jobs.

00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:38.040
I said,

00:54:38.040 --> 00:54:42.520
I want you to join me because the
train is leaving the station and

00:54:43.190 --> 00:54:47.840
cooperative management is going to be
the way we're going to get back in to

00:54:47.950 --> 00:54:52.720
true fish management. Some
didn't. They kind of fought us.

00:54:53.290 --> 00:54:58.280
There were certain number of 'em that
made life difficult during the first

00:54:58.670 --> 00:55:02.880
year of the pilot project, but
I had a lot of support too.

00:55:03.140 --> 00:55:04.360
Had the support of the governor,

00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:07.720
had the support of Raleigh who
was the deputy chief of staff.

00:55:08.520 --> 00:55:10.800
A number of them started coming around.

00:55:10.950 --> 00:55:15.560
They could see that they were actually
having discussions with tribal

00:55:15.610 --> 00:55:19.480
staff. I'm not saying it was
popular, but it was working.

00:55:20.090 --> 00:55:24.400
There was skepticism on the parts of some
of the tribes that I worked with about

00:55:24.940 --> 00:55:29.800
how wedded the state was to this
concept of co-management. Billy.

00:55:29.950 --> 00:55:32.680
Said, we're going to have to do
a lot of work with the tribes.

00:55:32.950 --> 00:55:34.000
They trusted Billy,

00:55:34.780 --> 00:55:38.680
but they didn't know me
from Adam or trust me,

00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:44.080
so we started finding things that
we had in common with each other and

00:55:44.080 --> 00:55:48.080
that was kind of the first step that
the new administration took to deal

00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:51.720
directly with the tribes
one-on-one, no attorneys involved.

00:55:52.820 --> 00:55:57.160
We did get together and
started co-managing and
started having joint science

00:55:57.590 --> 00:56:02.240
information and then we started regulating
the fisheries the way we're supposed

00:56:02.240 --> 00:56:02.820
to.

00:56:02.820 --> 00:56:07.080
All I can say is that would've never
happened if it wasn't for Billy Frank,

00:56:07.640 --> 00:56:08.560
a huge legacy.

00:56:10.050 --> 00:56:14.120
Billy went on to become a national voice
for Indian country and a warrior for

00:56:14.120 --> 00:56:14.950
the natural world.

00:56:15.420 --> 00:56:20.000
Of all the politicians and political
leaders that I've met in my lifetime and

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:23.440
I've met a lot of 'em, Billy
Frank, he was the best.

00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:27.280
I have never known anybody like him.

00:56:27.940 --> 00:56:30.760
He commanded respect from
everybody in the room.

00:56:31.160 --> 00:56:32.360
I don't care where you came from.

00:56:32.900 --> 00:56:37.120
Things would've been a lot harder for
us without someone like Billy out front.

00:56:37.860 --> 00:56:40.840
We got a three part management
here in the state of Washington.

00:56:40.990 --> 00:56:45.360
It's a federal government state and the
uniqueness of the Indian tribes here as

00:56:45.390 --> 00:56:50.240
co-managers of the resource we have to
have from the state department and the

00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:53.360
pressure to get our salmon
home, the timber people,

00:56:53.590 --> 00:56:57.920
they've been sold out by importing these
logs out of here and that guy's trying

00:56:57.920 --> 00:56:59.600
to kill the owls for doing that.

00:57:00.140 --> 00:57:05.000
The engine people used to
find an old tree to die

00:57:05.090 --> 00:57:08.080
under. There is no more old trees anymore.

00:57:08.780 --> 00:57:10.840
We got to start planting
them and planting them.

00:57:10.900 --> 00:57:15.320
Now it takes 500 years to plant
a tree. We have to do that.

00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:20.200
It might take us a century
to get our salmon back.

00:57:20.200 --> 00:57:21.030
We have to do that.

00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:25.840
We have to keep the quality of life
here in the northwest that we enjoy.

00:57:27.980 --> 00:57:32.800
He knew how to lead
his people and he was a

00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:36.600
patient man. He was a kind
man and he was tough as nails.

00:57:36.980 --> 00:57:40.440
Man. I don't know how he did it. Every
day he woke up and was ready to go.

00:57:40.900 --> 00:57:45.800
He always made sure that he
represented not just nasw but all

00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:48.080
of our 20 tribes. He
represented the commission,

00:57:48.080 --> 00:57:49.960
but he was really the voice
of our tribes. I feel.

00:57:51.020 --> 00:57:55.680
He would not budge when it came to
the treaty rights of the tribes.

00:57:55.820 --> 00:58:00.080
It was never negotiable
and he wanted his people

00:58:01.040 --> 00:58:04.800
involved In the day-today
management of the fisheries,

00:58:09.850 --> 00:58:14.640
Billy made co-management happen
because he was a compelling leader.

00:58:15.220 --> 00:58:17.720
He made habitat conservation happen.

00:58:18.990 --> 00:58:22.280
None of those agreements would've
happened without Billy Frank.

00:58:23.250 --> 00:58:24.800
We're fighting over the last fish.

00:58:25.180 --> 00:58:28.600
Our salmon runs and
steelhead runs are dying off.

00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:35.140
All of us are talking the
federal, the state, the sportsmen,

00:58:35.240 --> 00:58:37.460
the citizenry, the tribes.

00:58:38.060 --> 00:58:41.780
I think what's really unique about it
is nobody else is sitting in a room with

00:58:41.970 --> 00:58:46.860
co-managers on basically a pure level
and making these determinations for

00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:50.940
the fish. It's incredibly contentious
because it's an allocation.

00:58:51.600 --> 00:58:52.860
You want to make sure you get your share,

00:58:53.040 --> 00:58:54.820
but you want to make everybody
else gets their share.

00:58:55.480 --> 00:59:00.340
So it developed a better relationship
actually and it helped evolve this co

00:59:00.370 --> 00:59:02.860
stewardship relationship
between us and the state.

00:59:03.290 --> 00:59:04.620
It's a rewarding experience.

00:59:05.080 --> 00:59:08.540
We have our tense moments when we
try to work through difficult issues,

00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:12.660
but I think at the end of the day we all
recognize that the tribes have the same

00:59:12.660 --> 00:59:13.260
goals we do.

00:59:13.260 --> 00:59:16.940
We want to have healthy harvestable
salmon populations into the future for the

00:59:16.940 --> 00:59:17.780
state and the tribes.

00:59:18.050 --> 00:59:20.100
They want to stop fighting,

00:59:20.610 --> 00:59:24.400
quit fighting over the last
fish and to try to help.

00:59:24.740 --> 00:59:28.960
And at the end you can generally shake
hands and feel respected both directions

00:59:28.980 --> 00:59:30.080
and know you've done a good job.

00:59:32.230 --> 00:59:34.320
Started out fighting in the bolt decision,

00:59:34.740 --> 00:59:37.080
but I got to know a
number of tribal members,

00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:41.640
people like Billy and Lorraine
that turned out to be really,

00:59:41.640 --> 00:59:44.920
really good friends. It changed
the whole dynamic for me.

00:59:45.580 --> 00:59:46.960
I'm really happy that the bolt.

00:59:47.240 --> 00:59:48.070
Decision happened.

00:59:49.940 --> 00:59:53.320
I'm not saying the relationships between
the state and tribes are perfect.

00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:58.240
I doubt that they are, but
because of Billy Frank,

00:59:59.030 --> 01:00:00.240
they're better than they were.

01:00:17.060 --> 01:00:21.550
Depending on who you talk to
in the tribal world, great.

01:00:21.610 --> 01:00:23.630
We got 50% of the salmon back,

01:00:24.130 --> 01:00:28.750
but some of us say bummer,
we lost 50% of our salmon.

01:00:29.330 --> 01:00:30.050
I'm on the great,

01:00:30.050 --> 01:00:34.870
we got 50 and where my tribes and
others are certainly trying to recover

01:00:34.890 --> 01:00:39.070
the salmon and it's a long
road. I'm kind of not calling.

01:00:39.140 --> 01:00:43.710
This a celebration because
then you get kind of removed

01:00:43.900 --> 01:00:47.990
from that decision and how hard it was,

01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:52.750
what life was like and what the
new opportunity brought to us.

01:00:53.710 --> 01:00:57.390
I think it's a bit of both.
Yeah, we gave up half,

01:00:57.850 --> 01:01:01.910
but we also have that
voice that is able to

01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:06.470
help make sure that they
uphold those promises to us.

01:01:12.610 --> 01:01:15.510
Do your dad ever talk
about declining runs?

01:01:15.670 --> 01:01:20.670
I mean when the idea that
salmon were limited and they

01:01:20.670 --> 01:01:22.470
were declining coming to play.

01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:29.110
Those are some really hard times.

01:01:34.170 --> 01:01:38.150
The fish population started dwindling
pretty quickly actually through the

01:01:38.390 --> 01:01:40.510
eighties and that became a big worry.

01:01:43.090 --> 01:01:44.190
And I remember my dad,

01:01:44.450 --> 01:01:48.510
you could start to see the concern and
he would have conversations with the

01:01:48.510 --> 01:01:53.430
other fishers about those
seasons being disasters or

01:01:54.060 --> 01:01:58.390
they were talking about a
disaster and nobody really

01:01:59.540 --> 01:02:01.350
said where the sockeye went.

01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:04.550
They just said there's not
a sockeye season this year.

01:02:05.170 --> 01:02:06.510
It started in the early eighties.

01:02:07.210 --> 01:02:08.470
In 1974,

01:02:09.010 --> 01:02:13.150
the tribes were harvesting
approximately 2% of the run,

01:02:13.290 --> 01:02:14.910
not 50%, about 2%.

01:02:15.180 --> 01:02:18.830
They were catching more fish at 2% in 74.

01:02:18.990 --> 01:02:21.080
Then they're catching today at 50%.

01:02:22.110 --> 01:02:26.560
Finding our value now without the
salmon necessarily. It's hard.

01:02:26.900 --> 01:02:30.840
It has created a huge disconnect
right from our elders to our youth.

01:02:31.290 --> 01:02:33.960
Those traditions have kind
of stopped being passed down.

01:02:34.510 --> 01:02:39.280
There's a lot that our youth
aren't able to see or learn

01:02:39.420 --> 01:02:42.440
or practice and there's a lot
that our elders can't teach.

01:02:43.620 --> 01:02:47.160
The declining of the salmon
created in our community,

01:02:47.790 --> 01:02:50.320
kind of a subtle or quiet desperation.

01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:55.440
I don't think that our community
has ever really recovered from that.

01:02:56.890 --> 01:03:01.880
There was a lot of competing interest
in the resources that affect salmon

01:03:03.110 --> 01:03:07.240
development became more important,
timber harvest and farming.

01:03:08.930 --> 01:03:13.520
We've also seen so many other
factors hitting us like climate

01:03:13.620 --> 01:03:18.600
change and habitat destruction
and urban growth and development.

01:03:20.540 --> 01:03:24.920
To the point where we get worried that
50% of nothing's going to be nothing if

01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:28.840
we don't manage to turn the wheels
back and get habitat back in place.

01:03:31.140 --> 01:03:36.000
We need the habitat to sustain
the fish because the promise were

01:03:36.300 --> 01:03:39.280
the exact words from
Isaac Stevens. He said,

01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:42.040
you would always have
fish for your frying pans.

01:03:45.550 --> 01:03:49.160
Some tribal person came up with the
idea that if all the fish go away,

01:03:49.160 --> 01:03:52.640
our truism were spit. So
in US versus Washington,

01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:57.520
they brought phase two an effort to try
to assert the fact that treaty had a

01:03:57.590 --> 01:04:02.520
component of habitat protection
and it was litigated in front of a

01:04:02.520 --> 01:04:03.960
judge Orrick from California.

01:04:05.630 --> 01:04:10.600
They could see that our fishery
stocks were declining and it's kind

01:04:10.720 --> 01:04:13.760
of a no-brainer that habitat
is a big part of that.

01:04:14.790 --> 01:04:19.200
They can't just promise fish
when we don't have any fish.

01:04:19.610 --> 01:04:23.920
We've got to make sure
that those conditions that
support our fish are just as

01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:27.040
much as that treaty right as
the actual fish themselves.

01:04:29.500 --> 01:04:31.520
And Judge Orrick said, yes,

01:04:32.420 --> 01:04:37.040
you've got a right to habitat protection.
They've got to protect your share.

01:04:37.540 --> 01:04:42.480
He said that habitat is
definitely a part of needing our

01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:47.040
salmon and then hatchery
fish are also deemed a

01:04:47.160 --> 01:04:47.990
treaty fish.

01:04:48.410 --> 01:04:52.360
Think what would've happened if the
court had said no hatchery fish aren't

01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:53.140
included.

01:04:53.140 --> 01:04:57.640
Our hatchery fish, they contribute to
the next population, the next generation,

01:04:57.980 --> 01:05:00.200
so they're actually helping
with the salmon recovery.

01:05:01.030 --> 01:05:03.880
Then it wasn't just vin
fish, it was also shellfish.

01:05:07.170 --> 01:05:08.440
After that came down,

01:05:09.180 --> 01:05:13.760
the tribes looked for a while
and brought the culvert case,

01:05:17.580 --> 01:05:19.320
so that was a situation where we said,

01:05:19.420 --> 01:05:23.840
you can't put a culvert in the way of
fish passage, so fish can't migrate,

01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:28.560
and we argued was the most important
aspect of fish protection was passage.

01:05:29.300 --> 01:05:32.520
If they couldn't get to the spawning
ground and they couldn't get back to the

01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:34.000
ocean, there was nothing.

01:05:36.460 --> 01:05:37.600
So having that corridor,

01:05:37.950 --> 01:05:42.680
that river that was free of impediment
was critical and the court said yes.

01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:52.800
My guess is we'd have very few wild salmon
and steelhead returning to Washington

01:05:53.020 --> 01:05:57.680
now if we hadn't had the benefit of the

01:05:57.750 --> 01:06:02.520
bolt decision and the tribe's perspectives
about the importance of wild salmon

01:06:02.580 --> 01:06:03.410
and steelhead.

01:06:31.820 --> 01:06:34.800
The bolt decision, it benefits everyone.

01:06:37.620 --> 01:06:41.760
It forced the state to become
co-managers with the tribes,

01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:46.360
not only in salmon but in
the habitat arena as well.

01:06:46.700 --> 01:06:47.260
To me,

01:06:47.260 --> 01:06:51.600
it empowers me to do what I need to do
to make sure that we're going to have

01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:53.400
salmon for our future generations.

01:06:55.300 --> 01:06:58.040
Hugely important. Without it,

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:03.840
I don't think we would be talking about
salmon here right now. I honestly don't.

01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:06.880
I think in many, many,

01:07:06.990 --> 01:07:10.240
many places in this western
Washington, they'd be gone.

01:07:15.260 --> 01:07:20.040
Treaty rights can allow the
northwest to continue to grow in a

01:07:20.110 --> 01:07:22.160
more responsible and balanced way.

01:07:22.970 --> 01:07:27.640
Kind of like L'Oreal Wat who spent
better part of 20 plus years removing two

01:07:27.640 --> 01:07:28.470
dams, dams.

01:07:30.430 --> 01:07:33.960
When the dams came in, that's
when the decline in my opinion,

01:07:34.070 --> 01:07:38.800
started the decline in the salmon
populations and cut 'em off from their

01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:40.440
home. They had no home to go to.

01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:44.080
They're bumping against the dams wanting
to give by and they wouldn't give up.

01:07:44.080 --> 01:07:47.960
They'd stay there and die,
so we lost a lot of salmon.

01:07:48.380 --> 01:07:52.840
It literally took an act of Congress and
it took 20 years to get that act and it

01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:56.440
was a very long process. A
lot of trips to Washington DC

01:08:01.030 --> 01:08:04.280
When the dams came down,
that was a glorious day.

01:08:04.780 --> 01:08:07.400
Not only dam removal, but my friend,

01:08:07.460 --> 01:08:09.880
my mentor Billy Franco sitting next to me.

01:08:10.300 --> 01:08:13.680
And when you say the
Elah people are strong,

01:08:14.580 --> 01:08:15.960
you damn right there still.

01:08:20.480 --> 01:08:21.720
I have a piece of it at home.

01:08:23.550 --> 01:08:28.440
It's in my China hutch and I'm proud of
that because it took so long and so much

01:08:28.610 --> 01:08:33.040
sweat and tears and prayers
to get to that point.

01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:37.160
I had a part in that. My tribe
had the biggest part in that,

01:08:37.900 --> 01:08:39.240
so I'm real proud of that.

01:08:40.420 --> 01:08:45.200
My great friend Raz for he glows
when he talks about that damn dam

01:08:45.210 --> 01:08:48.360
being removed and the fact that they
get to have a fishery this year,

01:08:48.770 --> 01:08:50.280
their culture's restored.

01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:56.680
I think the dams came
down because of Bolt.

01:08:57.100 --> 01:09:02.000
It gave us an avenue for co-management
and when you obstruct fish from getting

01:09:02.190 --> 01:09:05.640
into their pristine habitat,
we had to remove it.

01:09:06.300 --> 01:09:09.640
So if we didn't have the bolt decision,
I don't think that would've happened.

01:09:16.340 --> 01:09:21.200
The tribe's advocacy for salmon and

01:09:21.540 --> 01:09:26.240
for our rivers is a tremendous
benefit to all of us in Washington

01:09:26.820 --> 01:09:31.160
in protecting those natural resources
that most of us in Washington

01:09:31.550 --> 01:09:33.080
came here to enjoy.

01:09:33.650 --> 01:09:36.920
Jimmy CU Lately Creek is
a good example of that.

01:09:37.620 --> 01:09:42.240
The south end of Squi Bay
was occupied by a commercial

01:09:42.940 --> 01:09:43.770
log dump,

01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:48.440
terrible salmon habitat in that reach in

01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:49.640
1999.

01:09:50.420 --> 01:09:54.640
The total adult return was just seven fish

01:09:55.660 --> 01:09:59.240
and conditions for shellfish
were absolutely terrible.

01:09:59.900 --> 01:10:03.680
The Logy yard was decommissioned
and was removed from the ground.

01:10:04.700 --> 01:10:09.240
The creek was put into a
brand new naturalized channel.

01:10:10.530 --> 01:10:11.360
Today,

01:10:11.580 --> 01:10:16.440
the average annual return
has been in excess of

01:10:16.440 --> 01:10:18.200
2,500 Spawners

01:10:19.700 --> 01:10:24.640
and Squi Bay is literally
the epicenter of the tribe's

01:10:24.830 --> 01:10:29.600
shellfish operation because
Jimmy lately Creek had been

01:10:30.080 --> 01:10:33.960
restored. So that's been a
remarkable success story.

01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:40.680
I think we ought to be taking full
advantage of protecting Indian treaty

01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:45.600
rights if we're concerned about
protecting fish habitat, wildlife habitat,

01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:46.850
et cetera.

01:10:48.540 --> 01:10:51.280
The treaty rights have been a
plus for the state of Washington.

01:10:55.290 --> 01:10:57.360
We've proven we can bring our salmon back.

01:10:57.700 --> 01:11:00.200
Now the big issue that
we have is our habitat,

01:11:00.900 --> 01:11:03.440
but we're having to compete
against stakeholders.

01:11:05.060 --> 01:11:08.600
We had the largest coal port in North
America proposed adjacent to our

01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:11.880
reservation, going to impact
a village site of ours,

01:11:11.970 --> 01:11:15.440
going to impact treaty rights that
were secured in the 1855 treaty.

01:11:16.540 --> 01:11:18.240
Not only was it a coal terminal,

01:11:18.860 --> 01:11:22.040
it would've been North
America's largest coal terminal.

01:11:22.330 --> 01:11:27.120
Those ships have to enter and come
through fishing areas that will severely

01:11:27.220 --> 01:11:28.280
impact our treaty.

01:11:28.280 --> 01:11:32.600
Fishing rights definitely would've
had a significant impact on salmon

01:11:33.310 --> 01:11:34.140
herring.

01:11:34.270 --> 01:11:38.400
That was the driving force for
Alum Nation to oppose and assert

01:11:39.100 --> 01:11:43.120
its opposition to the Gateway
Pacific terminal. To do so,

01:11:43.180 --> 01:11:45.720
the nation leveraged its
treaty fishing claim.

01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:52.650
That we've determined there is a
greater than de mini impact to the Lummi

01:11:52.650 --> 01:11:56.690
nation's usual custom fishing rights.
Based on the 3D of Point Elliot,

01:11:57.280 --> 01:12:00.970
I've gone ahead and issued
a decision on the permit,

01:12:01.420 --> 01:12:03.410
which was a denial without prejudice.

01:12:08.440 --> 01:12:12.850
When we got that news, it brought
tears to many leadership eyes.

01:12:13.390 --> 01:12:18.130
It brought tears to many in our
community because it was like a

01:12:18.130 --> 01:12:22.130
500 pound weight off of our
chest. Yes, we got protection.

01:12:25.350 --> 01:12:29.650
And the fact that they used this
treaty to slay this dragon was

01:12:30.130 --> 01:12:30.960
phenomenal.

01:12:33.020 --> 01:12:37.090
We've been taught early on from our family
members and elders to always protect

01:12:37.090 --> 01:12:39.610
that and we always will.

01:12:45.850 --> 01:12:50.470
The political climate, it
peaks in valleys. Okay,

01:12:51.510 --> 01:12:54.230
I think we're in the valley for a
while. Then we came up a little bit,

01:12:55.050 --> 01:12:56.270
but we're in the valley again.

01:12:58.190 --> 01:13:02.950
I see a tremendous amount
of turmoil for the future.

01:13:03.890 --> 01:13:05.550
We fought so hard for something

01:13:07.420 --> 01:13:11.790
that we are more than likely
to lose, mainly because

01:13:13.320 --> 01:13:17.990
there is not even a recognition in
this country that we are destroying

01:13:18.970 --> 01:13:20.390
the planet and the environment.

01:13:23.510 --> 01:13:25.950
I do think climate change is
one of our biggest threats.

01:13:26.500 --> 01:13:27.910
There's no question about it.

01:13:29.770 --> 01:13:32.790
The warming of the waters is one
of the one things I really notice.

01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:35.070
These fish still need cold,

01:13:35.180 --> 01:13:39.390
cool water to survive with chum
salmon returning to the creeks.

01:13:39.740 --> 01:13:42.550
They have to wait longer in the bay to
get into the streams because they're

01:13:42.550 --> 01:13:47.030
waiting for those fall rains that haven't
happened in the last couple of years

01:13:47.030 --> 01:13:48.230
because of drought conditions.

01:13:49.450 --> 01:13:52.390
If you follow what's happening
with the resource and the runs,

01:13:54.410 --> 01:13:57.350
no matter how much work you see
people putting in right now,

01:13:58.330 --> 01:14:00.310
we are really not rebuilding. Okay?

01:14:00.690 --> 01:14:04.830
You try to managing harvest,
try to habitat restoration.

01:14:06.280 --> 01:14:08.790
We're doing all that
work and it's all good,

01:14:08.810 --> 01:14:12.480
but we're still losing habitat
faster than we restore it.

01:14:12.500 --> 01:14:14.160
We need to reverse that trend.

01:14:14.700 --> 01:14:19.680
So as this resource gets smaller, the
competition becomes greater again.

01:14:19.700 --> 01:14:22.680
So now we're going back. Everybody's
fighting over less and less and less,

01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:23.510
right?

01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:27.800
I don't know how to bring it back unless
we take the fight to the environment.

01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:28.970
On the other hand,

01:14:29.660 --> 01:14:32.440
how do you fight in an environment when
your federal government won't recognize

01:14:32.440 --> 01:14:33.270
there's an issue?

01:14:36.900 --> 01:14:37.800
The bolt decision?

01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:42.960
How do we effectively use it as a
fulcrum point to address climate

01:14:43.020 --> 01:14:43.790
change?

01:14:43.790 --> 01:14:48.280
What do we have to do to retain
our identity for years to come?

01:14:48.380 --> 01:14:50.960
And the bolt decision clearly
is a keystone to that.

01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:56.840
I believe that future generations
should have a birthright

01:14:57.580 --> 01:15:01.160
to breathe clean air to
harvest fish from a river,

01:15:01.660 --> 01:15:05.480
eat a clam without fear
of dying from the toxins.

01:15:06.570 --> 01:15:09.240
These fights aren't for money.

01:15:10.010 --> 01:15:12.240
These fights are all about protection.

01:15:41.660 --> 01:15:46.120
Our tribes are even 50 years
later, they're going strong.

01:15:48.860 --> 01:15:53.520
We still have that spirit.
We're still a strong people.

01:15:57.540 --> 01:15:59.800
We haven't given up on
the fight for the salmon.

01:16:03.780 --> 01:16:07.760
Our people fought for this. We fought
for it. Blood, sweat and tears.

01:16:10.140 --> 01:16:11.640
It brought the tribes together,

01:16:12.020 --> 01:16:16.040
forced us to work together and manage
these resources in a common goal.

01:16:20.400 --> 01:16:25.400
I just think that we've changed to the
better. We're stronger, we're smarter,

01:16:25.460 --> 01:16:26.400
and we're more savvy.

01:16:28.940 --> 01:16:33.720
And I think it's taken 50 years for
tribes to elevate and realize we are

01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:36.680
doctors, we are lawyers, we're leaders,
we're chairman, whatever it might be.

01:16:37.270 --> 01:16:40.720
CEOs, we are more equipped
than we've ever been.

01:16:43.460 --> 01:16:47.960
The fish war isn't over But
instead of fighting over fish,

01:16:48.580 --> 01:16:52.720
we are fighting for the fish and
to keep them here on our planet.

01:17:03.160 --> 01:17:06.560
I can always remember being on this
river always made me feel better,

01:17:07.220 --> 01:17:10.880
and sometimes you forget that in life,
but you always come back to the river.

01:17:10.950 --> 01:17:11.780
It's always our home.

01:18:32.530 --> 01:18:33.550
My home.